Dowsing test

Hey AF ...I have been right all along..Glad you see it my way ...Now you know the difference between a Double Blind Test and a plain old test...Art
 

Oh, Art. Shall we go look at some of your old posts? Carl wanted a disinterested third party to place targets so neither the tested nor the testee would know where the targets were. You swore up and down that this was unscientific because it wasn't double blind....
Do you remember this, Art?
 

Twist and turn...What has a 3 rd party have to do with the difinition of a Double Blind Trail. The word "Double" and "Group" are the words to look at. Pretty simple ....Art
 

aarthrj3811 said:
A double-blind test is a control group test where neither the evaluator nor the subject knows which items are controls.

Carl…You can call your test anything you want…You have no base line for your results. The only one that I know of that has taken your test was 0-60. So 1-60 would be a winner. So give 300 or 400 people the test and get some kind of base line .....I ask this question and you said your results are here on T-net.......The only one I can find is Jeff's

I asked you this on thunting... what "0-60" are you talking about ???

Quiz:

What are the "controls" in my DB test?

Hint: answer was posted on thunting, just yesterday.

- Carl
 

Art, I have come to the conclusion that you are quite dense.... So, I'll slow it down some.... ::)
This is what you (Art) said.
aarthrj3811 said:
A double-blind test is a control group test where neither the evaluator nor the subject knows which items are controls.
This is what I (af1733) said.
af1733 said:
Carl wanted a disinterested third party to place targets so neither the tested nor the testee would know where the targets were.
Care to explain what you're having difficulty with?
 

Carl...You said the results of your tests were here. The only results I know of are the one's from Jeff's Test...0-60..Art
 

In case you and Carl are still having trouble understanding simple words like Double Blind Tests I will give you more information...

double blind
= A testing procedure, designed to eliminate biased results, in which the identity of those receiving a test treatment is concealed from both administrators and subjects until after the study is completed. It is impossible for Carls test to meet these standards
double blind experiment= A testing procedure, designed to eliminate biased results, in which the identity of those receiving a test treatment is concealed from both administrators and subjects until after the study is completed. ...Looks like the same difinition.
In a double-blind experiment, neither the individuals nor the researchers know who belongs to the control group and the experimental group.
That makes it real clear that the word DOUBLE means two groups that are BLIND as to what the others are doing....Art
 

aarthrj3811 said:
Carl...You said the results of your tests were here. The only results I know of are the one's from Jeff's Test...0-60..Art

Still don't know where you got "0-60"... JD didn't do 60 tests.
 

aarthrj3811 said:
double blind = A testing procedure, designed to eliminate biased results, in which the identity of those receiving a test treatment is concealed from both administrators and subjects until after the study is completed. It is impossible for Carls test to meet these standards

Art, do you think this definition is all-encompassing of double-blind testing? Do you think that because this definition fails to mention it, it is therefore impossible that any other kind of double-blind testing can possibly exist?

If you believe this to be true, you'd be wrong. So let's explore this.

There are a certain class of double-blind tests in which the people being tested are NOT divided into a control group & experimental group, and in which their identities need not be concealed from anyone. Everyone knows who is being tested. However, something else is used as a control group and experimental group, and their identities do need to be concealed.

Can you give me an example of this kind of double-blind test?

Here are a couple of hints...

Aquafina

Monster Cable

I hope you're willing to at least make an effort to understand this. So far, I haven't been encouraged.

- Carl
 

Carl

I still think you need the dowser and the guesser to have a double blind test.
 

Carl ---All the dictionaries have about the same difinition for Double Blind. Your Challenge is just that---a Challenge--- It could be called a Blind Test. It has a protocol. You seem to think this is some kind of super test. I have news for you... Millions and Millions of people do this kind of testing every day.
YOUR TEST WILL PROVE THAT ONE PERSON CAN OR CAN NOT USE HIS LRL. That may be why you can't get any one to take it...Art
 

It's a meaningless argument since Carl keeps backing out and throws up roadblocks when someone wants a fair shake. Look how he was discouraging Mustang in their last exchange. He won't be available, Mustang would have to get the landowners permission etc. etc. From Carl's "tells" this is a flim flam.
Henry
 

Henry Hartley said:
It's a meaningless argument since Carl keeps backing out and throws up roadblocks when someone wants a fair shake. Look how he was discouraging Mustang in their last exchange. He won't be available, Mustang would have to get the landowners permission etc. etc. From Carl's "tells" this is a flim flam.
Henry

I detect a tone of bitterness, "Henry". Care to share?
 

Rich NY said:
Carl

I still think you need the dowser and the guesser to have a double blind test.

Only if you believe that 350 years of mathematics is wrong.
 

aarthrj3811 said:
Carl ---All the dictionaries have about the same difinition for Double Blind. Your Challenge is just that---a Challenge--- It could be called a Blind Test. It has a protocol. You seem to think this is some kind of super test. I have news for you... Millions and Millions of people do this kind of testing every day.
YOUR TEST WILL PROVE THAT ONE PERSON CAN OR CAN NOT USE HIS LRL. That may be why you can't get any one to take it...Art

Gee, Art, you put forth zero effort on my questions. Why am I not surprised?

OK, here are 2 examples of DB testing, which do not place the people in groups. These are called product-preference tests.

Case 1: Taste test. Does any particular bottled water really taste better than others, or even better than tap water? To test this, you would take several numbered glasses, fill them with the different waters, and have test subjects taste the waters. There is no need to have a "control" group, because there is nothing to control against (there is no placebo effect). It is merely a comparison test. The test is "blind" if the taster does not know what water is in which glass. It is "double-blind" if, during the tasting phase, the proctor administering the test also does not know.

Case 2: Listening test. Does any particular speaker cable really "sound" better than others, or even better than zip wire? To test this, you would use something called an "ABX" box which switches the speaker signal between 2 cables, and have test subjects listen to music. The ABX box has 3 selections: cable A, cable B, and "X". When A or B is selected, then you obviously know which cable is being used. But the "X" position randomly selects A or B, and you have to look at a hidden indicator to see which it selected. Again, there is no need to have a "control" group, because there is nothing to control against. It is merely a comparison test. The test is "blind" if the listener does not know what cable has been selected. It is "double-blind" if, during the listening phase, the proctor administering the test also does not know.

These are well-known and well-accepted examples of double-blind testing that do not fit your very narrow definition. Similarly, a dowsing test is blind if the dowser does not know the actual location of the target. It is "double-blind" if, during the dowsing phase, the proctor administering the test also does not know. Is that really too difficult to understand?

I do agree with you, that my test will only show whether the person being tested can or cannot use his LRL (or dowse). But it's worth $25,000, for the person who "can". And, I've generally noticed, those who "cannot" tend to argue at length about how my test is unfair. You are welcomed to suggest your own test, which was the whole purpose of this thread.

- Carl
 

Carl

I wouldn't consider these tests. All they are is opinions.
 

Rich NY said:
Carl

I wouldn't consider these tests. All they are is opinions.

They are used to test product claims. Monster Cable claims their speaker cables produce a better sound than ordinary twin-lead speaker wire.

Now, you can just ask people to compare Monster Cable to ordinary twin-lead, and their response would be an opinion, and probably a biased one at that. When you put the comparison in a randomized, double-blind ABX test, yes, you still get their opinion as to which sounds better, but the bias has been eliminated, because there is no knowledge of which cable is active. If, in repeated tests, the SAME person sometimes chooses Monster Cable, and sometimes chooses twin-lead, that indicates that he really can't tell the difference.

Even though it's an opinion-based test, it is still performed with a double-blind protocol. You don't have to take my word for it, look up some of these tests and read how they're conducted.

- Carl
 

Carl

If these tests are opinion based, how would they apply to your test?
 

We all know that you are the protector of everyone's wallets. The Companies that have taken yours and Randi's test are they out of business now? If Musstag takes your Challenge are you going to try and ruin someones business? If I read his post correct his unit costs $5.41...Art
 

Top Member Reactions

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom