Dowsing test

[Amona]

Carl-C

And are you saying that because fraud exists, it is acceptable? I disagree

I disagree too, but I really believe you waste your time posting here, trying to convince people that the LRL don't work rather to do something against "Terrorism, high rate property insurance, etc.,..which affect to all American.

The true; there is many people around the world that believe in those machine, they use it and they had found coins, gold, even treasure caches,.....is it that a fact that you can change or deny? NO!!

The technology runs fast every day with new electronics developments and you never know if someday day everybody here in this forum see some of your relatives searching coins with a LRL,...you never know.

Regard
Amona

 

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[Amona]

Carl-NC

Quote from: Amona on Today at 08:27:06 AM
The issue here with you Carl-C is you personal agenda against those machine,manufacturer and user and that it's really insane.

No, the issue here is that LRLs don't work. And, like many others before you, you're trying to blame me.

I don't like to blame you, I don't like to insult anybody here, I, just write my comments about this issue, the LRL's machines. I judge in base the Today's technology advance and the possibility in the future,we can buy in real and good LRL or MFD that can be so accurate as any MD.

Amona

 

[Bill]

Amona,
No LRL or MFD or any dowsing device has ever found an unknown, large, lost or buried treasure.

 

[Amona]

Bill

I'd read on severals article on newspaper, web site, etc. about find made by people using dowsing, MFD, LRL here in EU,central and south america. If is it true I'm neutral.

Amona

 

[Recruiter]

I took two pieces of wire, bent them in the L shape. Went to my back yard and they did move, sometimes making an X, sometimes both pointing in one direction and once the one in the left hand pointed behind me while the one in the right pointed in front of me. I found that very interesting. Need to experiment a little more.

 

[Recruiter]

SWR

I spent a couple of days with this unofficial experiment. One of the things I noticed was when I was breathing inthe rods would cross, when I was exhaling they went back to being straight. I tried to stand very still and closed my eyes so I would try not to have any influence on how they moves (I could feel which way they were turning). I also took a couple of pieces of dowel and drilled holes just a little bit bigger than the rods right in the middle. Went out to a wilderness area and holding on to the wooden dowels the rods did not move without me having to move my hands a little. Could have been no treasure is why they did not work with the dowels. Any way I am satisfied at this time that the LRLs do not work for me.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Hey Recruiter.....Thanks for giving it a try...Art

 

[Sandsted]

Yes, it is wise to practice just keeping the rods still as you walk. Accidental movements will throw it off. Having your eyes shut affects your balance and wouldn't help your attempts to keep them still.

Once you can hold them still, then you can start expieramenting with the mentality of the art. It's not just walking around with a rod in your hand. And it is not the rod doing the work. There is no magic involved or spirits moving the rod. Simple science, the rod is an extention of your hand/wrist. All it is is a tool to exagerate the subconcious movements in your wrist. These subconcious movements are the key to dowsing, one must learn to develope the ability to utilize them...this is dowsing.

 

[aarthrj3811]

These movements are called ideomotor effect**, and is the key to moving the novelty dowsing rods over a known target. Makes for a great parlor-trick...but, has never located any unknown buried treasures.

Millions of people know that is a false statement....Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

Yes, it is wise to practice just keeping the rods still as you walk. Accidental movements will throw it off. Having your eyes shut affects your balance and wouldn't help your attempts to keep them still.

Once you can hold them still, then you can start expieramenting with the mentality of the art. It's not just walking around with a rod in your hand. And it is not the rod doing the work. There is no magic involved or spirits moving the rod. Simple science, the rod is an extention of your hand/wrist. All it is is a tool to exagerate the subconcious movements in your wrist. These subconcious movements are the key to dowsing, one must learn to develope the ability to utilize them...this is dowsing.

Finally, we have a dowser who attempts to define dowsing. Thanks, Sandy!
So, you have to hold the rods as still as you can, then let the subconscience movements in your wrist tell the rods when to cross?
Then it's actually your subconsciousness that tells you where the treasure is? Ideomotor to a degree, then?
Do you agree with this, Art?

 

[aarthrj3811]

Dowsing is a trained reaction to external signals from objects. The signals enter my foot and I have trained my mind to react. Ideomotor is a reaction of the body to a thought or idea. There is no guessing or magic. Just simple science and the will to learn,,,,Art

 

[Sandsted]

Yes, the statement that the use of dowsing has never found unknown targets is a lie.

Art, you explanation is close to the electromagnetic theory, but this does not explain map dowsing. To dowse, one must learn to control or train the reactions of the wrist. Scientist do not understand much of the subconcious or the right brain. There's no real explanation for dreams or intuition. It's a foggy subject.

Breeders of horses knew that certain characteristics of horses can be passed on to foals. Such as height, breed, body type. They can take two tall horses and know that the foal will likely be tall.

Nobody knew why, science at the time didn't support that, would this (at that time) be psuedoscience?

You can't cast down a topic like dowsing because science hasn't explained it yet. If our ancestors had done this with other subjects we wouldn't have gotten very far.

As I've said before, you can't disprove dowsing, you can only prove that one person, perhaps, can't dowse at that time.

Oh, and dowsing is not a parlor trick.

 

[aarthrj3811]

I agree that map dowsing is a mental exercise. I also agree that some good dowsers use nothing but mental abilities. I also know that a lot of dowsers use the natural signals emmitted by objects.....Art

 

[Sandsted]

Yes, like water. Moving water seems to be the easiest to detect through dowsing.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Hey Sandsted.....People don't understand how we can dowse when there is so may ways to do it. Just because someone locates objects using different methods doesn't mean they are wrong. I enjoy hearing how others dowse as I try to learn from everyone. I think everyones mind has an "options buttton". I tried Mental Dowsing and it was a complete failure for me. I learned to use the rods long before I knew it had anything to do with dowsing. To me they would just respond if there was any gold in my pan and they were right everytime.

This was the first year I searched for large amounts of gold (Bars). My research is solid and I know it is in the area. There is next summer....Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

The problem with comparing animal husbandry to dowsing is that the scientific community did study and accept this as a valid field of scientific study, and conducted experiments in order to reach this validation. Attempted studies to reach these same conclusions with dowsing have given either inconclusive results or have proved that dowsing fairs about equally to random chance.
I'm not going to say that dowsing does not work better than chance for the dowsers here, but in order to show otherwise, you would have to keep exceedingly accurate records of each hole dug and the finds from that hole, taking into account the area in which you are searching and a few other variables.
For example, if you dowse for gold in a high gold concentration area, then dig a 1'X1'X1' hole, without dowsing it first, and see how much gold that hole produces. Then compare this with the amount of gold you'd dig from an equal sized hole that you do dowse.

 

[Sandsted]

Af, you say tests show that dowsing is inconclusive or fairs with random chance. You know there have been many tests done on dowsing? I've seen about the same amount tests validating dowsing as I have seen disproving it.

One test I know of, which was conducted in Germany if my memory serves me right, was conducted by taking some random people and some regular dowsers and testing them with this. The testers knew where a pipe, with runing water, was in a field. (Actually I think it might have included a few different pipes...but I'm not sure) Anyway, their tests found that there were many that flat out couldn't do a thing. And some that were...you know, about right; not extremely accurate, and then a few that were dead on. Repeats of the test in a different area gave the same results. Their conclusion was that this is a natural gift that is bestowed upon few. This wasn't a dowsing society's test, it was a formal respectably done test, yet in the end they concluded it to be inconclusive.

I just believe their evidence shows that someone who has practiced dowsing and knows what to do...dowses better.

Anyway, don't be fooled into thinking that only redneck hicks runing around with a shovel know the truth of dowsing. There is more than you beloved Carl and Randi.

 

[aarthrj3811]

For example, if you dowse for gold in a high gold concentration area, then dig a 1'X1'X1' hole, without dowsing it first, and see how much gold that hole produces. Then compare this with the amount of gold you'd dig from an equal sized hole that you do dowse.

Well AF... Ask you friends with metal detectors how easy it is to locate gold in a gold bearing area? You seem to think all one has to do is go to one of these areas and pick the gold up. Most people who find gold know what they are doing. You go and dig a 100 or so 1'x1'x1' holes and pan all the dirt and then process all the black sand. If you kept good records you would have all this proof that you were just guessing about where to dig. Now do you know how much gold was in the area when you started? Do you how much gold is still in the area? Did you check and see if you missed any of the gold? ....Just another way to fool youself in to thinking your right about Dowsing being the same as guessing....Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

For example, if you dowse for gold in a high gold concentration area, then dig a 1'X1'X1' hole, without dowsing it first, and see how much gold that hole produces. Then compare this with the amount of gold you'd dig from an equal sized hole that you do dowse.

Well AF... Ask you friends with metal detectors how easy it is to locate gold in a gold bearing area? You seem to think all one has to do is go to one of these areas and pick the gold up. Most people who find gold know what they are doing. You go and dig a 100 or so 1'x1'x1' holes and pan all the dirt and then process all the black sand. If you kept good records you would have all this proof that you were just guessing about where to dig. Now do you know how much gold was in the area when you started? Do you how much gold is still in the area? Did you check and see if you missed any of the gold? ....Just another way to fool youself in to thinking your right about Dowsing being the same as guessing....Art

Which, of course, comes nowhere near a valid response....

I'll ask again....

Is the area you dowse for gold known to be a gold-bearing area? If it is, then what is the amount of gold that can be processed from a non-dowsed spot versus a non-dowsed spot? These are simple questions, Art.

If you dowse and dig 1'X1'X1' hole and process the dirt and find .5 grams of gold, what would be the amount of gold that could be processed from a non-dowsed hole of the same size? Have you ever tried?

In case you still don't get it, the point I'm making here is that you don't know how much gold the average cubic foot of soil contains in your area, only in the spots you dowse. How do you know for sure that the holes you dowse don't contain the exact same amount of gold at the spot right next to it that you didn't dowse?

 

[ClonedSIM]

Af, you say tests show that dowsing is inconclusive or fairs with random chance. You know there have been many tests done on dowsing? I've seen about the same amount tests validating dowsing as I have seen disproving it.

One test I know of, which was conducted in Germany if my memory serves me right, was conducted by taking some random people and some regular dowsers and testing them with this. The testers knew where a pipe, with runing water, was in a field. (Actually I think it might have included a few different pipes...but I'm not sure) Anyway, their tests found that there were many that flat out couldn't do a thing. And some that were...you know, about right; not extremely accurate, and then a few that were dead on. Repeats of the test in a different area gave the same results. Their conclusion was that this is a natural gift that is bestowed upon few. This wasn't a dowsing society's test, it was a formal respectably done test, yet in the end they concluded it to be inconclusive.

I just believe their evidence shows that someone who has practiced dowsing and knows what to do...dowses better.

Anyway, don't be fooled into thinking that only redneck hicks runing around with a shovel know the truth of dowsing. There is more than you beloved Carl and Randi.

You pinpointed their findings perfectly, Sandy. Some dowsed completely incorrectly, some got it right sometimes, and some got it right all the time. And if I recall correctly, the test had two different pipes with water flowing through either one or the other, and they had 5 minutes to dowse the correct pipe. Taking the results individually, the ones that dowsed correctly each time would look pretty amazing. But when you compile all the data, it still comes back to the fact that around 50% of the guesses were correct, while the other half were incorrect.

And I'd have to go back and reread the test, but I highly doubt that the words, "this is a natural gift that is bestowed upon few" appreared anywhere in their final publication.....

But I digress. The point I'm trying to make is that while dowsers claim that there is nothing supernatural or paranormal going on with dowsing, then why is it that only certain people have been bestowed with this natural gift? In the German test, some dowsers who thought they could dowse were proved to be completely incorrect, but I highly doubt this dissuaded them at all from continuing to dowse. Are these people just fooling themselves, or do they just need more practice?