dump bank continues to fight

[silvercop]

just when i thought they were finished.......... last month my main dumpbank stopped me from using their coin counting machine because they said my halves were tearing the machine up. well they started providing me the bags and i just bring in the dumps and exchange them. i thought everything was good so i start doing this, the only difference is now they want to make me to deposit the sum of the dumps in my account and then do a immediate withdrawl. i found this to be a little suspicious because it seemed to me they only wanted a paper trail to use against me later, but i did it their way and did not say anything. today when i got my statement they charged me a fee of 12.00 for excessive immediate withdrawls. guess i will go see what they have to say about it monday, what do you guys think? ever heard of something like this?

 

[coinmojo]

Jim

I would actually have a problem doing what I recomended. Believeit or not.

But not everyone is like me.

My situation is different around here and I dump into a coin counting machine, and wish I could go the drop off bags at the bank rout....... Most of the time the coincounter shorts me anyway, and even counts dimes as penny's.

But I simply shrug it off as the cost of doing buisness. You could say it is a "SERVICE FEE"

Mojo

 

[silvercop]

let me add one more point. the bank manager said i had to bring in the coins this way. they even provided the bags and told me i could not use their machine anymore. at the time this agreement was made their was no mention of fees what so ever. i learn of the fees when i recieve my statement in the mail. i think this is just another one of their ploys to get rid of me. first they say no more using the machine and make me roll the coins. that lasted for 1 dump session when i brought in 10K at once rolled during lunch when only 2 tellers were on the line. this kept one teller tied up for almost an hour. after that is when the bank manager gave me the bags and told me to bring them in this way, and that is when all the mandatory deposit, withdrawl business started. i kind of knew they were up to something i just did not know what, i mean why else would they want a paper trail. they never wanted one before. i just dumped into the machine got my reciept and took it to the teller and cashed out. i figured the only reason for this new poicy was they might hit me with a letter or something saying i was bringing in too many bags and they would have to start charging me a fee. i will let you know what they say monday. oh one more thing, they said my halves were causing their machine to break down. when i dumped yesterday i noticed the machine was out of order. i thought to myself it was not me this time.

 

[Rich Hartford]

Basically they stole money from you, and they are going to get away with it. If you want to be creative you could make problems for them,and get your money back. But is it really worth the effort

 

[ivan salis]

easy they give you # 50 lb bags --and say all is right by them (even if the amount is "short" to you by count ) ---then its fair for you to give them just barely (by weight ) 50 lbs "bags" in return (and I say ok, play by the banks own rules ---the "measure" of 50 lbs being a "bag" --and thus as they give --so shall they recieve) --by their own "rules" this is fair -- and thus you keep the "overage" from anyslightly over 50 lb bags * by shaving off the "overage" weight of any "heavy" bags to balance "your" books for the "under count ones" --- after all --- 50 lbs is 50 lbs

 

[bigtime400]

You know I usually don't defend the banks and I get annoyed when most people do on here. Mainly because it is because a full service bank should do everything it $1000 a week at any says it will and part of that is free coin counting for customers. But on the other hand. I never drop more then one bank. Partly because I dont want to be too much of an inconvience and so that I can fly under the radar of the managers. I would have to say 10k a week at one bank a week is probably pretty excessive. Now doing something like that I think would for sure push banks twoards changing the free coin counting policy and maybe putting an upper limit on that. Im sure that if there were vending companies that maybe went through more then that they would waive that fee. But most banks have a fee per roll right now.... that doenst mean anyone gets charged. I dont for anything. That might have been implimented just in case they need to or want to use it.

 

[FingerGrime]

Maybe you could try splitting up your dumps into several sessions at several different banks each week. I realize it's a lot of trouble, but if you were able to do this, it might get you out of this situation.

 

[phrostie]

In the Army we would call cheating a bank by shorting bags an "integrity violation." Throughout this whole process of searching coins I've been shorted, but do i complain...no because it's part of the game. Now is the fee ridiculous, yeah probably, although you are dumping 10k per week, which is excessive. I'd argue to get the fee removed, and if they won't do it go elsewhere. Ask them what defines excessive withdrawals...because remember it wasn't dumping the coins, it was excessive withdrawals. How many withdrawals are excessive? 1, 2 10? If they give you a number abide by it, pay the fee or go to another bank.

But come on, shorting bags, that just seems a bit too much. I'd hope a cop would not have to go to plan B and breach his integrity.

 

[Goes4ever]

two wrongs do not make a right, shorting the bags is just not the right thing to do, but I also feel dumping 10k a week at one bank is excessive as well, and to pay $1 per bag is not bad IMHO

 

[mistergee]

now they want to make me to deposit the sum of the dumps in my account and then do a immediate withdrawl.

i think everyone is missing what happened here...the bank was the one who told him to do it this way with no mention that there would be a fee....then they back doored him when he got his statement. what?....they didn't have the balls to tell him to his face and give him the option of whether or not to dump..that is just plain underhanded.....something stinks and and it definitly sounds like they are trying every way they can think of to get rid of him. i'm not saying the fee is unreasonable.....just the way they hit him with it would have been reason enough for me to cause a stink.
and while we're at it let me just say this about sticking up for the banks. first of all, i can't give 2 craps about them, they are the ones who started this whole economy on the downslide by being greedy. they took thier profits when times were good and made a hell of alot of money.but that wasn't enough....they got greedy and started making these bad loans they knew would not pan out in the future. they ignored warnings from those in the know that these loans were going to come back and bite us in the butt. now that it has happened they act all surprised and want us to bail them out with more of our money.then they want to take that money and give bonuses to the top execs who caused the problem to begin with and then still refuse to lend money because the economy is still bad. the government is no better letting them get away with it. no money should have been given to them without the stipulations that the top execs be fired and a guarantee that fair lending will resume once the bailout money was given to them. how do you get a bonus for running a company into near bankruptcy? the last time i looked bonuses were for a job well done.
that being said i don't feel bad about getting anything i can for free from them and fighting them on any fee they may impose just because i'm making them work a little harder. besides isn't customer service the only thing besides security they have to offer us for letting them use our money to make money? after all without us they wouldn't be in business. now if you don't have an account with them i can see them charging you as you do not do any banking with them and therefore you are not a customer. but if you have $30 or $30k in an account you should get the same level of service, AND a list of fees for services should be given to you at the time you open an account so there are no surprises down the line. no way should they be allowed to get away with imposing fees they made up at the drop of a hat just because a customer is "inconveniencing" them.(hope i spelled that right) the last time i looked there seemed to be plenty of competition in the banking business, you would think this would cause them to bend over backwards to service thier customers in any way they can just to keep them.

 

[jim4silver]

now they want to make me to deposit the sum of the dumps in my account and then do a immediate withdrawl.

i think everyone is missing what happened here...the bank was the one who told him to do it this way with no mention that there would be a fee....then they back doored him when he got his statement. what?....they didn't have the balls to tell him to his face and give him the option of whether or not to dump..that is just plain underhanded.....something stinks and and it definitly sounds like they are trying every way they can think of to get rid of him. i'm not saying the fee is unreasonable.....just the way they hit him with it would have been reason enough for me to cause a stink.
and while we're at it let me just say this about sticking up for the banks. first of all, i can't give 2 craps about them, they are the ones who started this whole economy on the downslide by being greedy. they took thier profits when times were good and made a hell of alot of money.but that wasn't enough....they got greedy and started making these bad loans they knew would not pan out in the future. they ignored warnings from those in the know that these loans were going to come back and bite us in the butt. now that it has happened they act all surprised and want us to bail them out with more of our money.then they want to take that money and give bonuses to the top execs who caused the problem to begin with and then still refuse to lend money because the economy is still bad. the government is no better letting them get away with it. no money should have been given to them without the stipulations that the top execs be fired and a guarantee that fair lending will resume once the bailout money was given to them. how do you get a bonus for running a company into near bankruptcy? the last time i looked bonuses were for a job well done.
that being said i don't feel bad about getting anything i can for free from them and fighting them on any fee they may impose just because i'm making them work a little harder. besides isn't customer service the only thing besides security they have to offer us for letting them use our money to make money? after all without us they wouldn't be in business. now if you don't have an account with them i can see them charging you as you do not do any banking with them and therefore you are not a customer. but if you have $30 or $30k in an account you should get the same level of service, AND a list of fees for services should be given to you at the time you open an account so there are no surprises down the line. no way should they be allowed to get away with imposing fees they made up at the drop of a hat just because a customer is "inconveniencing" them.(hope i spelled that right) the last time i looked there seemed to be plenty of competition in the banking business, you would think this would cause them to bend over backwards to service thier customers in any way they can just to keep them.

You are right. If they charged him the fee without giving him warning first, that is crappy and he would have a definite right to complain.

As far as the statement "the banks are greedy", that is kind of like saying "guns kill people". It was really the people who sold the mortgages that should be to blame per your argument. Many local banks did not get involved in the subprime mess, and many banks that did get involved bought CDOs that contained these bad mortgages even though they did not sell such mortgages. But even if the mortgage lenders were greedy the people getting the loans are equally to blame.

Many people max out their credit cards so they can buy big screen TVs and other luxuries they cannot afford. Then when they go bankrupt they blame the credit card companies for giving them cards. Simply blaming the lenders is like saying a drug dealer is to blame for an overdose or drug use. There is blame to share I think.

Generally speaking, to quote the character Gordon Gecko from Wall Street, "greed is good". It is the underlying basis for a capitalistic society. As long as the law is not being broken. If someone was talked into a mortgage they cannot afford so the lender could make extra money, then that is bad. I would bet that more often the lenders were lax in their requirements and gave home buyers the house they asked for, even though they could not afford it. Nobody likes to take personal responsibility anymore for their failures or mistakes its seems. Always somebody to blame.

There is a saying I believe in for the most part, "you can't cheat an honest man". Of course there are some exceptions to this.

Just playing devil's advocate.

Jim

 

[XX]

Google Regulation DD.

Regulation DD requires all fees to be disclosed to the customer prior to assessing the fee (this could be in the form of a fee schedule, but if "Excessive Immediate Withdrawals" is not on the fee schedule, they violated the regulation.

Regulation DD also requires them to disclose the fees in writing upon your request.

Go into the bank, cite regulation DD, request the fee information in writing, and demand a refund off the fees assessed prior to them notifying you of the fees.


As for the suggestion of intentionally shorting the bag, two wrongs DO NOT make a right. It's a horrible and seriously immoral suggestion. I would never think of it and only bad karma could ever come from it.

 

[GMan00001]

Since everyone seems to have put in their two cents already here is mine.

Intentionally shorting the bags is just plain stealing. Yes, you may get away with it for awhile (maybe forever), and the ramnifications for getting caught are probably not that severe. The bank either debiting your account or just no longer taking your dumps without a fee. However, it is exactly this mentality that has caused some banks to not want to deal with coins at all and pushed their policies to include fees to avoid having too. I have heard complaints from multiple banks about people who intentionally would try to short them when turning in rolls, etc. It just isn't worth it in the big scheme of what you are trying to accomplish.

So there is a fee. Is it a monthly fee due to the total size of the cash withdrawals? Is it a per transaction fee?

I keep seeing people saying $12K in dumps for $12 is a $1/dump, but if I remember correctly....$12K was your weekly total and monthly it would be more like $48K or something....so its probably more like $0.25 per $1000 dumped... (or am I wrong?) I usually only do bags and just in shortages easily pay more than $0.25 per $1000 bag of halves so all in all not much at all.

Also all those bags that they are giving you do cost money to them. I know the banks probably get a better deal than on the websites I found via a quick google search, but for 250 count of bags they were about $0.56 each not including shipping and you would be using 1 per $1000 worth so $12K would be $6.71 of cost to them at that price point. Now if you really are doing $48K in dumps per month, they are probably still subsidizing you by providing the bags even with the $12 fee.
http://www.generalbanksupply.com/st...in-bags.html?gclid=CJKirr7i3JkCFctL5QodPnwSVQ

 

[silvercop]

well i went today and spoke to the bank manager and talked with her about the fee. i politely reminded her that when we made this arrangement that no fees were mentioned and that i have brought the coins in just as she said and brought them in like she said i had to and basically told her that i had held up my end of the arrangement. she agreed (for now i guess) and took off the fee. she also told me i had to change my account from a savings account to a checking account (which i did) and the fee would not be charged again. guess we will just wait and see. so for now plan B is on the back burner that plan A worked (for now)

 

[XX]

well i went today and spoke to the bank manager and talked with her about the fee. i politely reminded her that when we made this arrangement that no fees were mentioned and that i have brought the coins in just as she said and brought them in like she said i had to and basically told her that i had held up my end of the arrangement. she agreed (for now i guess) and took off the fee. she also told me i had to change my account from a savings account to a checking account (which i did) and the fee would not be charged again. guess we will just wait and see. so for now plan B is on the back burner that plan A worked (for now)

In reading your post, it just clicked. It was a legitimate fee. Your disclosures probably stated that you would be charged $12 for each withdrawal over 3 in a given month. It is a common restriction on savings accounts driven by federal regulations (although the most common limit is 6 is directed by the regulations, but banks are free to impose a lower limit).

 

[silvercop]

dont remember reading that anywhere but maybe the problem is fixed now.

 

[coinmojo]

Well Done.

G man thanks for your input, and doing the math.

I would gladly pay $0.25 per bag for the ease and convenience of simply dropping off bags rather than running them through the machine. As it is I run all my coins through the coin counting machine and the slower ones at that But there is no fee involved.

It takes me 20 minutes in the Bank everytime I dump 2k in halves. and 20 minutes to run 1k in dimes through. Penny's run through at about $7 a minute. "Time is money"

And Like I said they are almost always short or miscounted.

I suggested shorting the bags but probably would not do it myself. Due to the Karma factor. Just relating my experience with bank bags and how they work....... or don't work.

Mojo

 

[silvercop]

mojo i still think they are trying to get rid of me. wonder what they will do next? wish i lived in or near a big city with alot of free coin counters but they are the only game in town.

 

[Rich Hartford]

What is up with all this "Karma" I keep seeing in the posts ? Are you guys Hare Krishnas ?

 

[ivan salis]

nope but most detectorist strongly believe in "what you do comes round full circle" --- screw unto others and you too will be screwed in the end.(folks that make a habit of screwing others make enemys --while freinds come and go enemies slowly add up over time --till you got lots of em --- ie "karma")

 

[minton7]

I still wonder how they can restrict the coin counting machines with no posted limits? Isnt this discriminatory? Wesbanco is pulling that here..... prior to my beef with them, it was a 5% fee for non acct holders, and no fee for acct holders..... now it says..... "acct holders MAY be charged the 5% fee".. they wont tell you what constitutes this fee and you arent aware if you pay it or not until your money is in the machine and you take the slip to the teller..... When there are no posted limits, how can they restrict the usage? If they cant afford to maintain them, maybe they need to take them out? I would caution you to be careful, banks can close your accounts for NO reason, no violation of policies or terms of usage...... I complained about my treatment and the fact tha tthe branch manager tried to pick up my daughter one time, then grabbed her by her arm and drug her away from the gun machine another time, and they cancelled my accounts.... no reason no nothing....... I took it as high as their Ohio president of operations......was told banking isnt a right.... its a priviledge......... so even at 12 bucks a month, VERY cheap..... and I would have to say that 12K a week is excessive........esp for one branch.........unless you are paying them ALOT of interest, or have all kinds of $$ in there, I am shocked they havent already closed your accounts.... they can and will most likely report you under the Patriot Act... dont be suprised if you get a call or visit from the Feds......... banks can and do report suspisious things...... 12K dumps each week would most likely fit under that term.... just FYI