✅ SOLVED Eagle / Cannon Pewter Button

[ANTIQUARIAN]

SOLVED!!

US Infantry Button 1807 - 1811

William Crumpton, Burlington, NJ.


I found this one-piece pewter button at a site on the St Lawrence River near Watertown, NY. It was in rough condition when I found it so I sent it for a 12-hour tumble in my 'polisher' to clean it up! What I can now see is an eagle sitting on top of a cannon facing to the right. Underneath the cannon, I can make out the last 3 letters 'ERY', which I assume stands for Artillery.

There are some letters on the back, but I'm unable to make out what they say. Any help on the age, origin and value if any would be appreciated!

Thanks,
Dave

PS. I have also posted this in the 'Button ID' forum.

 

[CoilyGirl]

Hope you find out what it is soon!

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

Hope you find out what it is soon!

Thanks CoilyGirl!

 

[vpnavy]

One great thing about T-Net - a member will ID that puppy for sure ANTIQUARIAN.

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

One great thing about T-Net - a member will ID that puppy for sure ANTIQUARIAN.

Thanks buddy!

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

First... your photo shows the loop is brazed onto the button's back, so the button is brass, not pewter. Your button is a US 1st Artillery Regiment button, from 1802-1808. The lettering below is "1 REGt" not "ERy". The only match for your button's exact emblem (no stars, eagle looks toward the viewer's right) and SIZE found in the Alphaeus H. Albert button-book is button AY-25Av (14 millimeters).

Please try to decipher the lettering on the button's back. I think I can see "NGTON" on part of it.

(I also replied to your post in the Button ID forum.)

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

First... your photo shows the loop is brazed onto the button's back, so the button is brass, not pewter. Your button is a US 1st Artillery Regiment button, from 1802-1808. The lettering below is "1 REGt" not "ERy". The only match for your button's exact emblem (no stars, eagle looks toward the viewer's right) and SIZE found in the Alphaeus H. Albert button-book is button AY-25Av (14 millimeters).

Please try to decipher the lettering on the button's back. I think I can see "NGTON" on part of it.

(I also replied to your post in the Button ID forum.)

Thank you very much for the info on my button TCG! I had no idea it was that old and likely for the war of 1812! I also thought it was pewter primarily because of the colour and how the edges are deteriorating.

I'll try to determine the writing on the back later tonight and will post back on what I find! Though 'The Bachelorette' is on later and I might not have an opportunity to do it tonight!

Thanks again,
Dave

 

[CC Hunter]

The button appears to be low-convex, one-piece pewter example. Albert's AY 25 Av. is in fact not a match for what I am seeing, as that is a flat one-piece brass button. The eagle is also facing opposite of this example, compared with AY 25. The cast pewter buttons have a much thicker shank as we may note on this example where the shank is bent over. The small raised oval area around the shank of this cast button is in fact likely a mold detail, rather where a wire shank was later braised onto the back. Additionally, the raised lettering on the backmark here is consistent with what is seen in later pewter period pewter buttons (rarely do we see raised or embossed style backmarks on early 19th Century brass buttons, unless they are recessed into a channel-RMD).

I'm searching now for a precise match. This may in fact be something other than a standard issue artillery button.

CC Hunter

 

[CC Hunter]

R9 Ep. in Albert's is similar, a low convex pewter button. Backmark listed is; Giles***Richards (raised mark). I agree with Professor Cannonball Guy in reference to the visible portion of the backmark appearing to be "......NGTON" or similar. I've not found a match to that as of yet in backmarks of the period on button backs, that may match the design face on this button.

CC Hunter

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

The button appears to be low-convex, one-piece pewter example. Albert's AY 25 Av. is in fact not a match for what I am seeing, as that is a flat one-piece brass button. The eagle is also facing opposite of this example, compared with AY 25. The cast pewter buttons have a much thicker shank as we may note on this example where the shank is bent over. The small raised oval area around the shank of this cast button is in fact likely a mold detail, rather where a wire shank was later braised onto the back. Additionally, the raised lettering on the backmark here is consistent with what is seen in later pewter period pewter buttons (rarely do we see raised or embossed style backmarks on early 19th Century brass buttons, unless they are recessed into a channel-RMD).

I'm searching now for a precise match. This may in fact be something other than a standard issue artillery button.

R9 Ep. in Albert's is similar, a low convex pewter button. Backmark listed is; Giles***Richards (raised mark). I agree with Professor Cannonball Guy in reference to the visible portion of the backmark appearing to be "......NGTON" or similar. I've not found a match to that as of yet in backmarks of the period on button backs, that may match the design face on this button.

CC Hunter

Thank you very much for your efforts in regard to this button CC! I have taken a number of additional photo's of the front and back of the button to try and make the backmarks clearer.

I'm just in the process of 'cleaning them up' and will post them asap!

Thanks again,
Dave

Here are the new pics!

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

I stand by what I've said.

My eyes cannot make out the cannon which the button's finder says the eagle is standing on. We forum-viewers are going by photos, but he is examining the button in real-life, so I take his word that the cannon is there, along with some small letters underneath the cannon.

When a button is made of a material other than brass, the Albert book tells what the material is. If the book says simply "1-piece", it means brass 1-piece. If a button is pewter, the book specifically says it is pewter. Albert does not list ANY eagle-standing-on-a-cannon button as being pewter.

The finder's button has no stars, and the eagle is looking toward the VIEWERS right. The eagle-head's direction excludes nearly all of the Albert book's Militia Artillery, US Artillery, and US Artillery Corps buttons which show an eagle standing on a cannon. Button AY-21 is one of the very few showing the eagle's head pointing in the same direction as on the finder's button. But I excluded AY-21 because it is 22mm, which is a lot larger than the finder's button. So I guessed it is the 14mm AY-25Av (one of the very few "small" AY buttons shown in Albert's book), even though I can't see the eagle's head in the tiny AY-25Av Albert photo.

Perhaps the finder's button is an "unlisted" cuff-size version of AY-21.

Unfortunately, the Tice button-book does not show any pre-1830 artillery buttons.

 

[confederate83]

Most impressive

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

I stand by what I've said.

My eyes cannot make out the cannon which the button's finder says the eagle is standing on. We forum-viewers are going by photos, but he is examining the button in real-life, so I take his word that the cannon is there, along with some small letters underneath the cannon.

When a button is made of a material other than brass, the Albert book tells what the material is. If the book says simply "1-piece", it means brass 1-piece. If a button is pewter, the book specifically says it is pewter. Albert does not list ANY eagle-standing-on-a-cannon button as being pewter.

The finder's button has no stars, and the eagle is looking toward the VIEWERS right. The eagle-head's direction excludes nearly all of the Albert book's Militia Artillery, US Artillery, and US Artillery Corps buttons which show an eagle standing on a cannon. Button AY-21 is one of the very few showing the eagle's head pointing in the same direction as on the finder's button. But I excluded AY-21 because it is 22mm, which is a lot larger than the finder's button. So I guessed it is the 14mm AY-25Av (one of the very few "small" AY buttons shown in Albert's book), even though I can't see the eagle's head in the tiny AY-25Av Albert photo.

Perhaps the finder's button is an "unlisted" cuff-size version of AY-21.

Unfortunately, the Tice button-book does not show any pre-1830 artillery buttons.

Thanks again for all your work here my friend! Here are a couple more pics I just took with my Blackberry. I think that they're a bit clearer then my digital camera.
Dave

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

Most impressive

Thank you, if only it had survived in better condition.
Dave

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

It is odd that a US Artillery button would be found in Canada. I can only assume it came from a War-of-1812 action.

You said (in a PM) that you hope it's not a British button. I checked my primary info-source showing British Military buttons, and didn't see any which show and eagle standing on a cannon.

About the issue of your button being pewter or brass:
Because you don't have acess to a copy of the Albert button-book, here's a link to a major button-dealer's website showing pre-1840 US Artillery buttons. The button-ID numbers are from the Albert button-book. The dealer doesn't have every specimen shown in the Albert book, but you can see that all of them are brass. Also, note that on nearly all, the eagle's head is looking toward the VIEWER'S left -- whereas on your button, the eagle's head looks toward the viewer's right. William Leigh: Artillery and Engineer Buttons

Another ID-clue about your button -- it has no stars on its front.

Sidenote:
The dealer incorrectly identifies one of the buttons as AY-21. On the actual AY-21 button, the eagle's head looks toward the viewer's right (like on your button).

 

[CC Hunter]

Finding a US Artillery button in Canada is rather unusual, although not unlikely in the least. United States military buttons have been found even further away in remote areas of the world, so a short distance across the border of our neighbor to the north is quite plausible. This button though, was in fact described as being found near Watertown New York, per the original post. The finder also describes the button as being pewter material, and from every detail that is evident in the photos, accounting for dull grayish color, edge flaking, waviness on the surface, small cracks, crumble-like degradation on a portion of the shank, overly thick shank that is not consistent with uniform brass wire material, and other features, I will concur 100% with this being a pewter button of the early 19th Century.

I have studied each photo from every angle, squinted with one eye and then the other, and tried to envision a cannon beneath the eagle, all to no avail.
Much like looking at clouds, the prolonged scrutiny of odd shapes can lead the mind to various conclusions. According to a quick perusal of Albert's reference on American Military Buttons, 19th Century artillery buttons are not known to exist in pewter material in any shape, shape, or design. My instinct is that this button is NOT actually an artillery button. The reference I provided earlier of a similar example listed in Albert's, described therein as pewter, example R9 Ap., is actually a subcategory under GI-53.

With the additional photos supplied, I am seeing what appears to be two letters below the eagle on the right side. This may be what was described as "ERY" in the original post, and one clue that led down the path of assigning this as an ARTILLERY button. From my viewpoint, the two letters appears to be a large capital "R" followed by a smaller capital "T", possibly underlined. This may in fact be an abbreviation for REGIMENT, as this style of lettering matches several Infantry Regiment buttons of the period. What is somehow seen as a cannon barrel below the eagle, may in fact be a trick on the eyes due to the pronounced bend at that point in the button. Furthermore, taking into account known button examples where there is an eagle perched atop a cannon (I've even dug a few of these over the years), with lettering below the cannon (I.E; CORPS, REGT., etc.), the lettering would then be much lower on the button than what we see here.

Regarding the backmark detail, the letters "....INGTON" are quite plainly visible to my eyes. The first logical choice would be WASHINGTON, though there are no company backmarks on military buttons with this city or name that I know of (there are only patriotic buttons, typically plain faced brass, with variations of Washington). William Crumpton is noted as a maker of US military pewter buttons of the era, and some carry his name as a mark. However, his business locations are listed as Philadelphia and New Jersey, I believe. Studying the other lettering on the back of this button following "....INGTON", appears to be a fairly good match for CRUMPTON, yet I must maintain this is again much like looking at clouds.

In conclusion I believe we are looking at a one-piece cast pewter button, possibly an unlisted Infantry Regiment variety, dating around the 1810-1830 period.

CC Hunter

 

[Bramblefind]

Regarding the backmark detail, the letters "....INGTON" are quite plainly visible to my eyes. The first logical choice would be WASHINGTON, though there are no company backmarks on military buttons with this city or name that I know of (there are only patriotic buttons, typically plain faced brass, with variations of Washington). William Crumpton is noted as a maker of US military pewter buttons of the era, and some carry his name as a mark. However, his business locations are listed as Philadelphia and New Jersey, I believe. Studying the other lettering on the back of this button following "....INGTON", appears to be a fairly good match for CRUMPTON, yet I must maintain this is again much like looking at clouds.

I think the Crumpton location in New Jersey was BURLINGTON - I found this on a genealogy message board-

Crumpton Button:

Resource: Record of American Uniform and Historical Buttons Bicentennial Edition
Author: Aiphaeus H. Albert)


Names of Contractors and Kinds of Buttons Furnished from 1800 – 1837

William Crumpton, Burlington, N. J. Infantry buttons, 1807, 1808, 1809, 1811, 1816; artillery, 1808, 1809, 1811, 1812: us., 1809; ight dragoons, 1811; rifle, 1811.

 

[Bramblefind]

Could it be the vest size of this?

 

[CC Hunter]

Awesome Bramblefind

CRUMPTOM BURLINGTON is a perfect match for the backmark! The eagle matches the design detail, and the marking on GI-32 below the eagle showing 1.RT matches the same letters we see on the right side of Antiquarian's example. Now that we have a comparison, the period before the "R" is also plainly visible to my eyes. The measurement size shown with the ruler in the photo of 1.5 cm., is a match as well for 15 mm. in the vest size of GI-32. The mystery is solved I believe!

CC Hunter

 

[Silver Searcher]

Great post and button ...I enjoyed the reading, and the great information provided.and great Id Bramblefind, nice to see members going that extra bit.

SS