Ebay Help please.Gold escudo pendents.

[giomustang]

I am new to the whole Cob area of coin collecting.But I think there is a bunch of highly skilled and smart people on this site who could help me out.I recently was looking for a gold cob pendent and have come across two that are currently being offered on ebay.I have tried contacting both sellers for more info on the coins but have gotten very little info back.although I know there is a bunch of nice gold replicas out there,I was wondering if either of these two look authentic to anyone with experience in this field?The items are ending soon so any help would be greatly appreciated.Also what you guys believe would be a fair price would be great too.Thanks in advance,and God Bless!

Pendent #1
Spanish Gold Doubloon | eBay
This one is 1/4 oz or a little over 7 grams with bezel..(I asked how much bezel weighs,no reply yet)
Pendent #2
Spanish COB Two Escudos Gold Coin Doubloon 22K | eBay
This one is 6.8 grams ,but this seller has no idea if that weight includes bezel or not nor does he have a scale I was told?...(i asked)

 

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[NJnuggetpirate]

I don't see the word copy or coey

 

[giomustang]

I don't see the word copy or coey

I understand that it does not say copy but I Have found many on the internet that look real,are not real but are real nice gold replica jewlery peices like this one Historic Atocha Coin Jewelry Shipwreck Pirate Treasure Coin Rings Atocha Coin Earrings Key West Coins Shipwreck Coins Cobs Reale Gold Silver . and that one does not say copy either on it...so how are you so sure?...I thank you for your reply

 

[realeswatcher]

You come to see with experience that a lot of bezel-mounted cobs are replicas... certainly not all, but a much higher proportion than what you see in "non-jewelry" form. It behooves the buyer to carefully scrutinize such pieces...

I'll also say that the gold escudos cast jewelry replicas you see tend to be "better" than the silver reales casts... Not sure if that's due to better techniques used since those are pricier pieces, or because of some metallurgical properties.

In this case, PendAnt #2 (with an "a", not "e") is a known replica of a Colombia 2E... pops up every so often. Possibly Atocha Trading Company?? See this thread where another one was discussed... one of my TinyPic linked photos apparently expired, but you get the idea...

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/spanish-cobs/246827-spanish-gold-coin-identify.html

As far as #1... "quarter ounce of gold" is a very vague way of stating weight/content... as if the seller is speaking in very general terms. Find out the EXACT weight to the 0.1 gram of the entire piece. Such a bezel should be in the 2.5-3.0g range, not much less. So, if the whole piece (coin in bezel) is anything under, say, 8.5g, you're almost certainly dealing with a replica (doesn't look to be "clippped" to any significant degree - if real, that piece should be right near full weight at 6.5-6.9g). The pictures aren't that crisp, but I'm leaning cast... honestly not certain, though.

 

[Mackaydon]

Personally, I wouldn't consider either coin without they being authenticated.
Don.......

 

[giomustang]

Thank you very much for your very informative post.I too was leaning towards pendent #2 being a nice replica...I find it interesting you mention that gold replicas are harder to determine being that from all I could research on this topic in just brought me in circles as far as what to look for.Good to know that it IS genuinely hard to tell a real vs a replica.

I am still awaiting my response from the seller of Pendent #1 but assuming the quarter oz of gold is legit (although vague) that brings the total weight with bezel included to around 7.75 grams clearly a little shy of your 8.5g cut off...(agian like you said I would like to have a specific response from the seller on gram weight before i am inclined to bid.)but at 7.75 g Would you then believe this could be a legit cob?Also what do you believe a fair price for this piece is?Would you happen to know of which era #1 is from?(comparing peices is driving me crazy to say the least lol)Thanks a ton in advance and I will update when I find out more soon.God bless

 

[realeswatcher]

The verdict on #1... zonk. If I was making replicas, it wouldn't be lost on me that these can easily be sold as genuine by either the unwitting or the unscrupulous...

 

[NJnuggetpirate]

I understand that it does not say copy but I Have found many on the internet that look real,are not real but are real nice gold replica jewlery peices like this one Historic Atocha Coin Jewelry Shipwreck Pirate Treasure Coin Rings Atocha Coin Earrings Key West Coins Shipwreck Coins Cobs Reale Gold Silver . and that one does not say copy either on it...so how are you so sure?...I thank you for your reply

I'm not but I have one real reale cob and a dozen fakes to me this looks authentic but if I'm wrong I will side with the person who corrects me

 

[giomustang]

Thank you so much for helping me conclude both are replicas.Out of curiosity is $500-$600 fair value for a replica such as these or are they only worth melt value considering no numesmatic value can be considered?also what would be a fair value of one such as this if it were real?I assume $500 would be a steal considering how hard a real one is to obtain.Thanks agian and god bless

 

[Mackaydon]

IMO, the value of a replica is the total of its intrinsic (melt) value plus the added perceived value, if any, created by both the seller and the buyer, relative to (1) the replica's utility (a teaching tool, for example), (2) the story (real and/or 'hype'), and (3) the perceived aesthetics (quality, beauty, etc.).
Don.....

 

[giomustang]

Since you said I should stick to an authenticated piece I found a VF 20 up on ebay for $1200.I am considering making an offer for it and would like some input on what would be a great deal for it?I find $1200 a little out of my price range but from what I have come across,most of these typically sell around there do they not?anyway any kind of advice on what kind of price would be a steal on this piece would be greatly appreciated.Also i heard people question NGC's competence in the field of grading cobs,is this true?could a replica pass for real through them?what is typically the best authentication company for such cobs? Thanks to everyone for all the great help and insight on the matter!god bless!


Authenticated Gold cob
NGC VF 20 1556 1598 Spanish Gold 2 Escudos COB Doubloon 3D5 | eBay

 

[Mackaydon]

I'd go to Sedwick for authentication of cobs:Shipwreck Coins and Artifacts of all Nations - Spanish Colonial & Latin American Coins by Daniel Frank Sedwick, LLC
Don........

 

[Booty Salvage]

That is a cast gold coin. A replica that was most certainly not in circulation in the 1500s. Beware of coins without proper certification. Look up treasure hunters like John Brandon who can set you up with real certified treasure coins.

 

[NJnuggetpirate]

That is a cast gold coin. A replica that was most certainly not in circulation in the 1500s. Beware of coins without proper certification. Look up treasure hunters like John Brandon who can set you up with real certified treasure coins.

There you have it I'm wrong thank God for booty

 

[giomustang]

That is a cast gold coin. A replica that was most certainly not in circulation in the 1500s. Beware of coins without proper certification. Look up treasure hunters like John Brandon who can set you up with real certified treasure coins.

I heard in order to contact John Brandon you have to call a museum in key west or Sebastian,I heard he lives where your from.I could not find much on how to get in touch so far.Any tips would be greatly appreciated as i would love to get my hands on a real 1715 fleet gold cob!Heck it would be a dream to go out an hunt with the legend himself!Has anyone ever hunted with Mr Brandon?And would the price of such a coin cost through him and the museum?Thanks a lot and god bless