Excal vs. Fisher CZ21

[The-Bone]

any thoughts on Fisher's water machine vs. the excal? Keep thinking maybe i'm missing something by dismissing the Fisher. Will be used for Jersey salt water and beaches. Also any input on each machines ergonomics would be helpful. I've come to the conclusion that if i buy the Excal the first thing i will need to do is buy and Anderson over/under shaft which adds another $120 to an already expensive machine. The Fisher looks to not need this plus i believe the Fisher unit lets you change coils. Thanks in advance. John
(BTW..i currently own a BHID and am looking for another unit primarily due to the floating coil issue and the inability to change coils on the unit. I have the older one with the 9.5" coil and it is useless in the rough waves as it catches the wave and pulls the coil to and fro. A pity really, a very decent unit that is rendered almost useless because Whites refuses to make a few minor engineering modifications.)

You can make your own straight shaft, I made mine for a total of $30..... Check a local marine store for aluminum handle for deck brooms ect.... Take the lower shaft in to be sure you get proper fit..... Cam locks are sold on ebay for $12 if you need one..

 

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[Bart@Big Boys Hobbies]

You have picked to two most popular for sure! Its a huge Ford Vs Chevy thing on these two.

 

[U.K. Brian]

Last time I saw one you could not change coils so I would check on that before buying. I found a lack of sensitivity to small gold. Perhaps you could get to try both before making the final choice. I know in Oregon the CZ's in general are better thought of than the Minelab system. On the other hand there's not many/any hammered silver pennies being found on the beaches of the States as the salt mode of all the CZ's doesn't allow you to hear them.

 

[The-Bone]

you are correct..i checked the manufacturers site and the CZ does NOT have interchangeable coils....with that said i wonder why they opted for a concentric instead of a DD coil?

 

[Keppy]

you are correct..i checked the manufacturers site and the CZ does NOT have interchangeable coils....with that said i wonder why they opted for a concentric instead of a DD coil?

Could be there are a lot of ones out there like me that would prefer a concentric coil over a DD coil...... Not every one is in love with the DD coil...

 

[Keppy]

you are correct..i checked the manufacturers site and the CZ does NOT have interchangeable coils....with that said i wonder why they opted for a concentric instead of a DD coil?

The CZ21 or the Excalibur nether one has a interchangeable coil .... The coil size you buy with the Ex or the Cz is the only coil you can use on them unless you send them in and pay to have a different coil put on by Minelab and Fisher...

 

[U.K. Brian]

SunRay did waterproof connectors that could be used on most hardwired detectors. Even if they failed I doubt if any damage would be done apart from perhaps a need to trim a little of the wires off and replacing the connector.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Find a good used excal and hard wire a wot or sef 12x15 inch buterfly coil on it. The money you save buying used will average $500-$600. I have 2 excals, one has a wot, other has the 12x15 butterfly coil on it. Most excal owners i know have a custom coil on their excal. If your not comfortable doing it yourself im me and i will set you up with someone who can do it for you for a small cost, usually $50 plus return shipping.

 

[bigscoop]

The CZ-21 or the Excal......they are the only two machines I have used over the years and both have their advantages, but the Excal is probably the better choice because:

A) Simply put, you will dig less trash. The null feature is what sets the Excal above the rest, and also it's ability to find very small gold, such as thin gold chains, which the CZ won't find.
B) You "can" change to a variety of coil sizes on the Excal, but not the CZ as the CZ must use Quicksilver coils (according to the manufacture). A couple of after-market connectors that you can easily obtain make this possible.
C) I believe the CZ might be a tad bit deeper machine, but the DD of the Excal lets you cover more ground, especially with a larger coil, like the WOT that Treasure hunter mentioned. I have one on mine.
D) You will encounter problems in some hunting situations with the CZ, such as hunting around area with a lot of iron deposits (hot rocks, etc). The Excal will see no problems because of the null feature.

As for the CZ....the hip mount feature is worth its weight in gold when on extended hunts. It is also a "silent mode machine" which the Excal is not (constant threshold noise). I believe it is a tad bit deeper machine. Fisher has great service, and as of late, Minelab service is slow, at best. The CZ also has longer battery life, running on two 9v VS 8aa in the Excal.

Both are top of the line machines, but I give the edge to the Excal for its complete hunting abilities in nearly any situation. (Obviously "not" a good relic hunting machine.) The controls are heavy, even on a straight shaft, so I made a chest harness for mine and I'm very happy with that setup.

 

[icurabeachguy]

The CZ-21 or the Excal......they are the only two machines I have used over the years and both have their advantages, but the Excal is probably the better choice because:

A) Simply put, you will dig less trash. The null feature is what sets the Excal above the rest, and also it's ability to find very small gold, such as thin gold chains, which the CZ won't find.
B) You "can" change to a variety of coil sizes on the Excal, but not the CZ as the CZ must use Quicksilver coils (according to the manufacture). A couple of after-market connectors that you can easily obtain make this possible.
C) I believe the CZ might be a tad bit deeper machine, but the DD of the Excal lets you cover more ground, especially with a larger coil, like the WOT that Treasure hunter mentioned. I have one on mine.
D) You will encounter problems in some hunting situations with the CZ, such as hunting around area with a lot of iron deposits (hot rocks, etc). The Excal will see no problems because of the null feature.

As for the CZ....the hip mount feature is worth its weight in gold when on extended hunts. It is also a "silent mode machine" which the Excal is not (constant threshold noise). I believe it is a tad bit deeper machine. Fisher has great service, and as of late, Minelab service is slow, at best. The CZ also has longer battery life, running on two 9v VS 8aa in the Excal.

Both are top of the line machines, but I give the edge to the Excal for its complete hunting abilities in nearly any situation. (Obviously "not" a good relic hunting machine.) The controls are heavy, even on a straight shaft, so I made a chest harness for mine and I'm very happy with that setup.

a) the CZ is capable of finding small gold, but it has to be pretty darn close to the coil. I've found several 1 - 1.5g rings that were fresh drops, but covered by a layer of sand. as far as chains are concerned, you won't pick them up unless they are coiled together or you hit a pendant/clasp.

as bigscoop mentioned, Fisher's service has been excellent the last two times I sent a machine in. the CZ's battery life is pretty darn good as it uses four 9V batteries that average around 50 hours of detecting time.

although the CZ has served me and my father well over the years, we're both looking for Excaliburs for the coverage as the CZ's concentric coil just doesn't get the coverage we'd like; however, the pinpointing with the CZ is spot on.

 

[general]

This was an excellent thread for my next purchase. I was thinking of getting an cz21, but maybe I should get another excal with a wot or butterfly coil for my older excal. I wonder if the wot or butterfly is good in salt water too.

 

[CoilFisher]

Could be there are a lot of ones out there like me that would prefer a concentric coil over a DD coil...... Not every one is in love with the DD coil...

According to Dankowski--, the CZ system could not be used with a DD coil the way it was designed.
My bet is the next generation First Texas salt water unit and/or land-shallow water hybrid units (If they make one) will have this now incorporated.
It is a guessing game on what is around the corner, but technology shall drive forward to customer demand and PERCEPTION!

What am I doing here? I should be out digging.

 

[ph036011]

I own both, cz and excal, both can find rings in saltwater, surf, and sand.
weights and swing similiar
battery charging simple on excal, cz slightly harder
I prefer the excal with tone and reaction, my preference.
I live in hawaii but have uk version of excal
Cz is a chest mount
excal is hip mount

 

[adamBomb]

I recently did a comparison of these two machines as I was buying one (went with the CZ). This is a quote from another forum and was pretty much the best description of each that I found:

I have used both CZ's ( CZ6a, CZ70, CZ20) and an Excal on the salt water beaches in NJ. For what it's worth, performance wise and sensitivity wise, to me there was not much difference at all. The main differences in my opinion, between the 2 machines has to do with personal preferences.

Do you want an automatic ground balancing unit ( Excal) or a manual gb unit ( CZ) ?

Do you like DD coils ( Excal) or concentric coils (CZ) ?

Multiple tones ( Excal) or 3 tones ( CZ ).

Do you want the unit to null on iron in discriminate mode ( Excal) or do you want to hear iron ( CZ) ?

Other differences include the pin point operation ( which is pretty much useless in my book when beach hunting), the configuration when hip mounting if one so desires, warranty, customer service, etc.

Bottom line in my book is the units in terms of performance are neck n neck.....it's the features of each unit that are very different, and it depends on what you want to have when hunting.

I ended up going with the CZ for a few reasons: Price - several hundred cheaper, warranty - 2 yrs vs 1 yr, durability - most forums seems to say its built like a tank vs the excal which might have some knob replacing issues, came with hip mount, came with straight shaft. Those were my personal reasons and they really had to do with price only. I spent $1200 on the machine and figured with the hip mount+shaft with the minelab I was looking at about $1650.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

You can make your own balanced straight shaft for $25.00, easy to make and I replaced all my knobs for $5.00 total of $30.00 additional investment. With straight shaft no need for hip mount which puts stress on cables...

I will take the null feature every time, I have yet to see it wrong after testing it hundreds and hundreds of times over the years, maybe 800-1000 less holes dug over the years and I have found gold in same hole as iron by doing the 90 degree re-sweep trick explained in manual.

By installing the reverse discrimination mod after warranty expired I can hunt in pinpoint mode (all metal) and with a simple flip of thumb switch located on hand grip I can switch to discrimination to see if target is good or bad and getting more depth and still digging no iron.

 

[gulfcoaster]

...
By installing the reverse discrimination mod after warranty expired I can hunt in pinpoint mode (all metal) and with a simple flip of thumb switch located on hand grip I can switch to discrimination to see if target is good or bad and getting more depth and still digging no iron.

Whereas on the CZ-21, you simply hunt in Autotune (all metal) and switch to Discrimination to see if a target is good or bad, all by using the nice little knob that is included on the detector...no mod needed. Lots of people say that their CZ-21's actually go deeper in Discrimination than Autotune, too...I have no clue about that. If mine beeps a mid or high tone, I dig...that's all I know, really.

 

[adamBomb]

Whereas on the CZ-21, you simply hunt in Autotune (all metal) and switch to Discrimination to see if a target is good or bad, all by using the nice little knob that is included on the detector...no mod needed. Lots of people say that their CZ-21's actually go deeper in Discrimination than Autotune, too...I have no clue about that. If mine beeps a mid or high tone, I dig...that's all I know, really.

So how does one hunt on the Excal if they do not want to mod the device...is there no all metal setting like autotune on the CZ? I had assumed it was like the autotune on the CZ but it just nulled iron. On the CZ I hunt, and I think most others, hunt is all metal using autotune then we flip the switch to listen to what kind of metal it is. How is it done on the Excal without the mod? I know the tones on the CZ are not as sensitive as the autotune because in autotune I can find targets that I might not necessarily be over but rather just near.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Pinpoint is all metal. You turn selector to pinpoint your in all metal mode.. It only nulls on iron in descriminate mod. The purpose of the mod is to put the pinpoint switch on the handle so to switch between pinpoint and discriminate is just simple flick of thumb switch on the hand grip. Several inches deeper in all metal.

You hunt in all metal when target is found you hit thumb switch to switch to discriminate to see if target is iron, always sweep twice, 2nd time from a 90 degree different direction, if there is gold with iron it will sound on 2nd sweep from different angle..

If there is no tone on discriminate remove scoop of sand and sweep again. All metal is deeper and may need to remove some sand till discriminate tones good or bad...

 

[adamBomb]

Wow that switch is pretty cool and that's what I thought about the all metal but just wasn't sure. Those machines look awesome with those coils. The excal is definitely the best looking metal detector imo.

 

[supertraq]

Last time I saw one you could not change coils so I would check on that before buying. I found a lack of sensitivity to small gold. Perhaps you could get to try both before making the final choice. I know in Oregon the CZ's in general are better thought of than the Minelab system. On the other hand there's not many/any hammered silver pennies being found on the beaches of the States as the salt mode of all the CZ's doesn't allow you to hear them.

my cz20 is in salt mode all the time and it will find #9 skeet shot in the ground 2-3"..I believe it would work in gold country streams for gold its that sensitive.