Field of Dreams II -British tudor rose

[Palmetto]

Just getting around to posting this from a few weeks back, but headed back down for 3 days to my Low Country field of Dreams and it did not disappoint. We hit some other areas this year as well and it turned out quite productive-My Dad dug 5 eagle buttons and an 1843 half dime and my uncle recovered (on top of ground) a very nice Porter Military Academy cuff (out of Charleston).

The field is an awesome array of relics and time periods. From early 1700's on up to civil war. I dug over 100 flats again and this time hit some real nice finds with a gold gilded British Lieutenant Tudor Rose button, 1812 Artillery and a 1775 half reale (worn with exception of date)-Some real nice dandy buttons, beautiful saddle shield, and many others.

thanks for looking.

 

[1stColonialRegiment]

Trying to ID a button properly is defensive? Most times on this site what I see is an upset finder who would rather believe what they want than the truth.... and it's like the person delivering the 'bad news' cost them their good find. I keep in contact through messaging with someone who has ID'ed many finds on this site over the years and that person often writes me to say look, yet another person just passes by my reply (which is clearly right) and continues talking to all the clueless people who are just throwing out guesses. (because those guesses is what they want to hear and believe)

Haha ok buddy we can play this word game or you could just chill out...

 

[Iron Patch]

Haha ok buddy we can play this word game or you could just chill out...

Sure, word games are great.

 

[Carolina Tom]

This thread is getting better by the minute.

 

[SouthJerseyJim]

Should delete all the negative troll comments and revive this thread. An excellent hunt turned sour by IP once again. Tudor rose or not lieutenant or not there are better ways on informing people what they have or don't have. Obviously IP has divine knowledge on all that is historical. And his personality skills are second to none. But arguing in a thread that isn't yours is not cool. Especially when the published experts clearly are unsure of the use of the "flower" buttons.

 

[1stColonialRegiment]

Oh god... I cannot believe the number of arrogant people on this forum who think they are experts just because they found a few rare relics. Now, how does it affect YOU in any way if this man is hopeful that his button is a Tudor Rose. It's his relic and it's in his collection. I joined this forum to meet some new and different friends in the relic community but all I've encountered is a bunch of crusty old farts who have nothing better to do but argue all day. Now I know why I'm the only one out of my friends who is on this site. Oh and you must wonder who my friends are... Well they are the actual experts in this hobby, not a bunch of wannabes. I'm not gonna say there names on here but go to relicman.com and you'll get the idea.

 

[Iron Patch]

Should delete all the negative troll comments and revive this thread. An excellent hunt turned sour by IP once again. Tudor rose or not lieutenant or not there are better ways on informing people what they have or don't have. Obviously IP has divine knowledge on all that is historical. And his personality skills are second to none. But arguing in a thread that isn't yours is not cool. Especially when the published experts clearly are unsure of the use of the "flower" buttons.

Troll you say? Then I guess the OP likes what trolls have to say. Keep on talking, it just shows your true colors.

 

[Iron Patch]

Oh god... I cannot believe the number of arrogant people on this forum who think they are experts just because they found a few rare relics. Now, how does it affect YOU in any way if this man is hopeful that his button is a Tudor Rose. It's his relic and it's in his collection. I joined this forum to meet some new and different friends in the relic community but all I've encountered is a bunch of crusty old farts who have nothing better to do but argue all day. Now I know why I'm the only one out of my friends who is on this site. Oh and you must wonder who my friends are... Well they are the actual experts in this hobby, not a bunch of wannabes. I'm not gonna say there names on here but go to relicman.com and you'll get the idea.

ok grasshoppa, say hello to all the experts for me, and maybe you could use some chilling a little too huh.

 

[SouthJerseyJim]

Well we've seen 14,633 post of your true colors and it gets old. Try and pull your nose down a little from that crazy 45° angle its on buddy. Try posting some actually finds, and less BS and become relevant again.

 

[Iron Patch]

Well we've seen 14,633 post of your true colors and it gets old. Try and pull your nose down a little from that crazy 45° angle its on buddy. Try posting some actually finds, and less BS and become relevant again.

You should start worrying more about yourself than me. Would probably do you some good.

 

[Silver Searcher]

What a great day of finds you had As for the button I would have to agree it's not Military. The UK finds data base has 38 pages of military buttons, only 4 have roses, and only one has more than the five standard petals associated with the Tudor Rose, and all have the regimental name around the circumference of the rose.

SS

 

[WHADIFIND]

Ya know, I find it kind of funny. That the forum's rules are tossed aside and the thread is basically hijacked for something that was never even asked for by Palmetto.

Even if it's not what he thought it was, who asked?

Palmetto? Thanks for sharing your wonderful finds.

 

[Iron Patch]

one has more than the five standard petals associated with the Tudor Rose.

SS

That's actually very interesting, at least to those who would like to know the actual ID. The funny thing is I bet if it was a Confederate button in question a debate would happen, and be welcome because certain people would like to know.... but because it's British, close seems to count?

 

[Silver Searcher]

That's actually very interesting, at least to those who would like to know the actual ID. The funny thing is I bet if it was a Confederate button in question a debate would happen, and be welcome because certain people would like to know.... but because it's British, close seems to count?

The button is the Royal Leicestershire Volunteers. They were officially disbanded in 1813, but many transferred their services as a unit to the Local Militia. However, the militias were themselves disbanded in 1816. Of course this would not be classed as a Tudor Rose....hence the six petals.

SS

 

[Palmetto]

First of all, thanks for all the comments. I don't take anything personally and know that on forums people can say or do things anonymously that they would not do otherwise. I know there are people here with very good knowledge and experience and I value it. I truly thought, from my own experience and past and from some of the resource books that it was a military(British) button but that is definitely in question and no big deal.
What it does seem to point out though, and SS pointed it out, is that over here there seems to be a much looser interpretation of British affiliated buttons as even Troiani has them listed as military in his book, even though it seems that in the UK database, none of the plain ones are listed as such. I agree with IP on his above post as well as there would definitely be a thorough debate on a confederate button if same situation occurred-I just think we have way more info there though.
Regardless, I had another great hunt in that field and next time I go down, if it has been plowed, will probably produce just as many relics.

 

[Aussie]

Wow! I hope I never find a button that needs help in identifying. Great find man whatever it is, I just like holding something that has been hidden, perhaps lost forever without metal detectors.
I found a 1931 Canadian cent in my front yard the other day, to me it was great that it got to a little road in Kentucky.

 

[Silver Searcher]

First of all, thanks for all the comments. I don't take anything personally and know that on forums people can say or do things anonymously that they would not do otherwise. I know there are people here with very good knowledge and experience and I value it. I truly thought, from my own experience and past and from some of the resource books that it was a military(British) button but that is definitely in question and no big deal.
What it does seem to point out though, and SS pointed it out, is that over here there seems to be a much looser interpretation of British affiliated buttons as even Troiani has them listed as military in his book, even though it seems that in the UK database, none of the plain ones are listed as such. I agree with IP on his above post as well as there would definitely be a thorough debate on a confederate button if same situation occurred-I just think we have way more info there though.
Regardless, I had another great hunt in that field and next time I go down, if it has been plowed, will probably produce just as many relics.

You did have a great hunt Mate, and I will look forward to your return trip there You know some times the thread can turn a little sour with people bumping heads and it does take away from the great day you had...but we are here to learn as well, I'm learning all the time from people like Iron Patch, and the two of us have banged heads many a time

SS

 

[Iron Patch]

The button is the Royal Leicestershire Volunteers. They were officially disbanded in 1813, but many transferred their services as a unit to the Local Militia. However, the militias were themselves disbanded in 1816. Of course this would not be classed as a Tudor Rose....hence the six petals.

SS

Seeing that, I now will bring up a point I had planned to make until I started getting accused of my posts being of the troll variety.


In Troiani's latest book he refers to it as "the rose - the symbol of royal feuds" while in the first book he calls it a Tudor Rose. I wonder if he made the change for a reason. Does a 6 petal rose also have the same meaning? I didn't think so.

I'd like to know why there's 6 petals on that button. It may be a clue in deciding whether the one in question could be Navy... because as I said it's made exactly right.

 

[WHADIFIND]

... and the two of us have banged heads many a time

SS

OH! So THAT's what you guys problem is! Well, stop banging heads so much, then you won't have so much trouble. LOL

 

[Iron Patch]

First of all, thanks for all the comments. I don't take anything personally and know that on forums people can say or do things anonymously that they would not do otherwise. I know there are people here with very good knowledge and experience and I value it. I truly thought, from my own experience and past and from some of the resource books that it was a military(British) button but that is definitely in question and no big deal.
What it does seem to point out though, and SS pointed it out, is that over here there seems to be a much looser interpretation of British affiliated buttons as even Troiani has them listed as military in his book, even though it seems that in the UK database, none of the plain ones are listed as such. I agree with IP on his above post as well as there would definitely be a thorough debate on a confederate button if same situation occurred-I just think we have way more info there though.
Regardless, I had another great hunt in that field and next time I go down, if it has been plowed, will probably produce just as many relics.

There may be more known about Confederate buttons, but there is certain ones that are widely accepted as Lieut. Navy, and have been for a long time... and they are in the book. That said, there's one or two in the book that surprise me, and I never would have thought they would be, and would like to know why they are there. So if anything there's more reason to debate your button than a Confederate one.

You should write Don T. and see what he has to say. I'm more curious than I care, just to be honest, but I still hope it turns out to be one.

 

[Iron Patch]

You did have a great hunt Mate, and I will look forward to your return trip there You know some times the thread can turn a little sour with people bumping heads and it does take away from the great day you had...but we are here to learn as well, I'm learning all the time from people like Iron Patch, and the two of us have banged heads many a time

SS

Good news... you must have got smarter!