florida group trying to get permit to remove Doc Noss Gold

[Springfield]

... Asking a theoretical question here (and anyone is welcome to answer) but would you pay cold, hard cash for 'inside' information on a lost treasure or lost mine? I sure would, but of course it would have to be solid info and the source had good reason to be willing to part with it.
Roy ~ Oroblanco

How would you determine if the info was solid? What if the seller thought it was solid but it wasn't? Would you ask for a refund? What if the info was solid but you were unable to follow through and find it? Refund? If someone had info that was solid, or he thought it was, why would he part with it? IMHO, people who actually do have this type of info either 1) Go to the grave with it; 2) Keep it in the family; or 3) Give it freely to someone when they realize they are not going to be able to exploit it themselves.

To answer your question: if I paid, I wouldn't expect a return any more so than betting on a horse.

 

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[vintageic]

Thank you for the warm welcome "Oroblanco"

I know of a few people who are deep into this Treasure and have followed it from the beginning.


The truth of the Victorio Peak and what really happened.


The reason why I asked if the story was still alive was to bring out the curious and the live treasure hunters who are still after the story
as well as a few other things

iam eager to meet some die hard Victorio Peak/ Noss cache treasure hunters who maybe interested in sharing there thoughts and info on this subject, as well of course a few other things


Truth of the whole Victorio peak Story will soon be told.

Please click> http://www.victoriopeak.com/

Thanks Brian.

Vintage-IC

 

[Oroblanco]

... Asking a theoretical question here (and anyone is welcome to answer) but would you pay cold, hard cash for 'inside' information on a lost treasure or lost mine? I sure would, but of course it would have to be solid info and the source had good reason to be willing to part with it.
Roy ~ Oroblanco

How would you determine if the info was solid? What if the seller thought it was solid but it wasn't? Would you ask for a refund? What if the info was solid but you were unable to follow through and find it? Refund? If someone had info that was solid, or he thought it was, why would he part with it? IMHO, people who actually do have this type of info either 1) Go to the grave with it; 2) Keep it in the family; or 3) Give it freely to someone when they realize they are not going to be able to exploit it themselves.

To answer your question: if I paid, I wouldn't expect a return any more so than betting on a horse.

All of your questions would depend on the info itself; I agree that such a purchase of info is equivalent to betting at the racetrack too.

Thank you Brian, and there are willing readers here even if they don't post much - I look forward to reading more from you.
Roy A. Decker ~ Oroblanco

 

[gollum]

Welcome Brian,

The only thing is, the secret of Victorio Peak is already known. Long story short;

Doc and Ova Noss found a very significant treasure in 1937. The two most likely sources are:

1. A certain Padre LaRue, or my favorite:

2. Loot from the Mexican Revolution (we have newspaper accounts that link Doc Noss to Emil Holmdahl, who was an officer in the employ of a certain Pancho Villa).

The Noss Family was screwed over by the US Government when the area was incorporated into the White Sands Missile Range. Several witnesses tell of large truckloads of gold (approx 93million ounces) being removed against a court order.

The caves are there (proven by Dr. Lambert Dolphin and the team of Geologists and Physicists from SRI [Stanford Research Institute]), but whatever gold and other treasures may have been are long gone. They are now most likely empty holes in the ground.

Best-Mike

 

[vintageic]

Thanks Mike,

Ive been reading alot of your posts,

look forward to sharing stories and info with you

Brian.

Vintage-IC

 

[victorio1]

Sfloto, I thought you might appreciate this photo, you have seen this ladder before but this photograph was taken in the 1940's by Doc Noss. This picture was in the family archives. You guys are in the right place!

 

[gollum]

Sfloto,

The questions I am still looking for answers to are:

WHY did Doc, then Ova, then the rest of the Nosses spend all their efforts on Victorio Peak?

If VP is only a ruse, then what about Fiege and Berlette's gold bars?

If Fiege and Berlette were lying, then why do we have the results of their polygraphs that showed them as truthful?

Why did Capt Orby Swanner testify that he was present as an MP (Military Police) and witnessed tons of gold being removed from VP?

If Swanner was lying, then how did his name appear in burned soot inside one of the lower caverns in the 1970s seen by Ova?

I think it is possible that Noss had more than one site, but I can't for the life of me understand why Ova never exploited it once in the 30 years she lived after Doc's killing.

Tom Whittle lived with the family for almost a year while writing the story for Freedom Magazine. He interviewed several of the people (family and friends) that assisted Doc in removing gold bars from the upper shaft in VP. Were they all lying as well?

Best-Mike

 

[uthunter]

There are a lot of questions unanswered, that is for sure. As for lie detectors, depending on the person administrating the test, they are at best 80% accurate. Most are less than 40% accurate at best, it is easy to fool the tester and such the test.

I have had numerous occasions to observe these tests. I was a trained, certified, and licensed Private Detective/Master Detective that worked in Montana, Wyoming and Idaho.

 

[gollum]

There are a lot of questions unanswered, that is for sure. As for lie detectors, depending on the person administrating the test, they are at best 80% accurate. Most are less than 40% accurate at best, it is easy to fool the tester and such the test.

I have had numerous occasions to observe these tests. I was a trained, certified, and licensed Private Detective/Master Detective that worked in Montana, Wyoming and Idaho.

These weren't criminals trying to avoid prosecution or cheating husbands. They were a couple of Air Force personnel just adding some credence to their stories.

I know quite a bit about Polygraphs myself. What era does your polygraph knowledge extend to? Seventies? Eighties? Nineties? Fiege and Berlette took theirs in the early 1960s. The knowledge of beating polygraphs was not very well known back then. I doubt if those two had any training in such methods.

Based on the eyewitness testimony of Capt. Swanner, the ultimate outcome was that what gold lay under VP was removed to places unknown by military vehicles.


Best-Mike

 

[uthunter]

My apologies if I offended anyone, that was not my intent.

My training and experience goes back to the mid 1980s and ended when I was injured in 2003. True the average person trying to show their innocence usually have no issue, but I have personally seen innocent people go to jail/prison due to incorrect results. I have also seen guilty people set free due to the same issues, later their bragging did them in, luckily. Back in the 60's, the technology was even more primitive, thus more incorrect results whether they be positive or negative. I am not trying to say these two individuals lied or were trying to pull something off. My point was just to shed light on the accuracy of these tests. No person should ever submit to a lie detector test, especially if they are innocent.

 

[gollum]

No apologies necessary. No offense taken.

I think most people are familiar with how accurate Polygraph Tests are. Why they are still not admissible as evidence in court.

These were also two men that likely had never before or would never again have to take a polygraph test. Lest we forget that BOTH of them passed their tests with flying colors.

One other thing to keep in mind is that the US Government (and Military in particular) would have wanted nothing better than to have both of them fail their polygraphs miserably. To this day, WSMR (White Sands Missile Range) vehemently denies the existence of any treasures under VP.

Best-Mike

 

[uthunter]

This is like the mis-information put out about Roswell, NM. The aliens that were found, were also found in four other sites at least that same time period. The military was testing ejection methods and possible risks posed to pilots when flying high altitude recognizance flights. They used Red Faced Pandas for the guinea pigs as their hearts most resemble a humans; size, shape and functions. The pandas were outfitted with an oxygen mask that melted to the face and the hair on the bodies was burned off in the atmosphere on the way down. When they recovered the body, the body was like a bag of melted Jell-o. According to my source, there were close to fifty such tests between 1946 and 1950. As for my source, an individual who retired from the Air Force in 1988. He assisted with several of the early tests studying what happened when the test subject was released. He was in the Navy during WWII in the South Pacific., then after the war he joined the Air Force. His brother was a pilot during several of the tests my father assisted with. When I was growing up, they always got a kick out of the big deal that was made. The military could not tell the truth, because they did not want the Russians and other countries (many our allies) to know what they were up too, since the U.S. spied on them too. These were early tests related to the U2 and its ejection technology.

My point is, the military knows where/were a number of sites are. I think they found out about these sites and recovered or are holding the sites for future use/need. There is public land that the Air Force and Navy have closed to public use. These sites are where supposedly treasure was located. The Air Force and Navy have been appointed to protect and recover critical or beneficial items located on public property. There are sites located in the North West end of the Uintas, that are fenced and have U.S. Government Property signs on the fens around all four sides of the sites. These sites are patrolled by the Air Force and there have been Navy personel guarding these sites. the site are about 1000 yds on each side. My parents had a cabin on the Weber river about ten miles from Smith and Morehouse Reservoir. They are on the North side of the Weber river from two or more miles from the river. All that is there are hills, rocks and lots of quakies, nothing else, except a few carvings in the trees and a few signs on the rocks. Man my dad got real pissed when he found out we were visiting the sites and checking them out.

I know I rambled, you can take away my keyboard and mouse now.

Jon

 

[bobinsd]

Sfloto, on post #11 there are 2 circular donut-shaped objects to the left of the "Entrance" on the opposing hillside. Do you know what they are? Very curious.Bob

 

[bobinsd]

Sorry, I meant post #7, not 11.
Bob

 

[victorio1]

Gollum, again you are correct about why would the Noss's waste their time on Victorio Peak if the treasure were elsewhere. Well, all I can say is what I heard Letha say. Doc had found maps, and text related documents within the Peak. Once the blast that shut him out of the Peak happened he turned to Caballo Mountain. On one occasion Doc invited Letha who went with him to Caballo. She told me she was annoyed with him and said, "why are we here, isn't all the treasure at the Peak?" He said it was but he knew of 6 more locations based on a maps, of which he only found three. These were located in Caballo. This may explain the multiple location issues. I can tell you that there are many photographs from the 40's of Caballo. At one time it made me wonder if we were in the right spot. But, Letha confirmed first hand and handle many bars in 1938 and she said they came out of the Peak. She never did see any of the other gold sites but was convinced they were in Caballo. One of the sites was what Willie Doughit found. Willie and Doc were good friends, and drinking buddies, as Willie put it. I believe Willie's site is empty. But somewhere are 5 more sites.

Now Gollum you mentioned Swanner and I thought I would share this photo I took while we were exploring what we called "Soldier's Hole" in Victorio Peak. Note the carbine light inscription on the wall to the right. I have a straight on shot but I can't find it at the moment. One for your library.

cheers,

-alex

 

[bobinsd]

UTHUNTER...I hate to say gullible, but there is a hook at the end of that line. Just what forces of nature would have caused a mask to melt and hair to be burnt off in a sub-zero environment.
And if they used red pandas ( I'll assume they had a red face), I'm sure common pigs or chimps would have been much easier to obtain, especially since red pandas are very rare, and only from China.
Also, I'm sure PETA would have shut them down fast.

 

[gollum]

Hey Alex,

That straight on shot is what Unsolved Mysteries used years ago (1980s) when they did a special on VP. THAT was the source for my statement.

I haven't gotten too awfully deep in the whole VP Noss story as it is quite a distance from SoCal. I am not an armchair treasure hunter. When I start getting involved in something I like to drag my a$$ out to the mountains/deserts to actually be able to test my theories.

The main reasons for what interest I have given to VP are the sheer size of the treasure and the fact that I firmly believe in the existence (at one time) of the treasure.

I'm a pretty sharp guy, and can usually smell a Tribble in the QuadroTriticale when it comes to treasure stories. Different people get hung up on the wrong things. What I concentrate on are the people involved. More specifically, how they act over the years.

In the case of the Noss Family regarding VP, if the story was BS, cooked up by Doc to dupe some wealthy investors for some cash, then why did he and his entire family fight tooth and nail until their dying days? Would anybody spend that kind of time, effort, and money for something that they knew to be BS? NEVER!

Best-Mike

 

[gollum]

This is like the mis-information put out about Roswell, NM. The aliens that were found, were also found in four other sites at least that same time period. The military was testing ejection methods and possible risks posed to pilots when flying high altitude recognizance flights. They used Red Faced Pandas for the guinea pigs as their hearts most resemble a humans; size, shape and functions. The pandas were outfitted with an oxygen mask that melted to the face and the hair on the bodies was burned off in the atmosphere on the way down. When they recovered the body, the body was like a bag of melted Jell-o. According to my source, there were close to fifty such tests between 1946 and 1950. As for my source, an individual who retired from the Air Force in 1988. He assisted with several of the early tests studying what happened when the test subject was released. He was in the Navy during WWII in the South Pacific., then after the war he joined the Air Force. His brother was a pilot during several of the tests my father assisted with. When I was growing up, they always got a kick out of the big deal that was made. The military could not tell the truth, because they did not want the Russians and other countries (many our allies) to know what they were up too, since the U.S. spied on them too. These were early tests related to the U2 and its ejection technology.

My point is, the military knows where/were a number of sites are. I think they found out about these sites and recovered or are holding the sites for future use/need. There is public land that the Air Force and Navy have closed to public use. These sites are where supposedly treasure was located. The Air Force and Navy have been appointed to protect and recover critical or beneficial items located on public property. There are sites located in the North West end of the Uintas, that are fenced and have U.S. Government Property signs on the fens around all four sides of the sites. These sites are patrolled by the Air Force and there have been Navy personel guarding these sites. the site are about 1000 yds on each side. My parents had a cabin on the Weber river about ten miles from Smith and Morehouse Reservoir. They are on the North side of the Weber river from two or more miles from the river. All that is there are hills, rocks and lots of quakies, nothing else, except a few carvings in the trees and a few signs on the rocks. Man my dad got real pissed when he found out we were visiting the sites and checking them out.

I know I rambled, you can take away my keyboard and mouse now.

Jon

UTHUNTER,

I am very familiar with Roswell and most of the Air Force Special Projects that have been floated by the Government that were supposed to explain away any possible extraterrestrial involvement. I have never heard of any Red Faced Pandas being used in any such capacity. The most often floated Project was Excelsior (where Capt. Kittinger performed parachute jumps from 100,000+ feet), High Dive (where anthropomorphic dummies were jumped in), Mogul (where radar listening devices were carried aloft by baloons to listen to Soviet Nuclear Missile Tests), and many others. Only problem is that none of those other Projects Timelines coincided with the crash at Roswell on Mac Brazell's Ranch. High Dive=early 1950s. Excelsior= 1959-1960. Mogul was right, but none of the lost radar sondes were within over a week of the actual debris find. You also can't say the sonde had been sitting there for a week either. Brazell and his wife saw and heard the explosion on the night of July 7th, 1947.

Best-Mike

 

[sfloto]

Sfloto, I thought you might appreciate this photo, you have seen this ladder before but this photograph was taken in the 1940's by Doc Noss. This picture was in the family archives. You guys are in the right place!

Let me get this right ……. The cave in the Caballo mountains 70 miles from Victorio Peak is the right Spot to find Doc Noss’s gold

This comment by Alex Alanzo leaves me baffled, Here is why

Are the new books coming out agreeing with me that the treasure is located in the caballos?

I am Hoping he will clarify “right place”

 

[sfloto]

Gollum,

All of your question boil down to ……why would people lie

I have done some small amount of research about VP but I cannot claim to be an expert

How did you hear Fiege and Berlette passed a polygraph (I don’t want an answer) was it first hand, Documented or as I suspect a carefully conceived urban legend.

I don’t know any of the people in this story, But I feel I know human nature
1 Given the chance people will enhance a story if it means Money, fame or their 5 minutes in the spotlight
2 People rarely check facts, they hear something that sounds true and the next moment it is

Ask yourself this question … If you found a treasure of this magnitude and it was in an area that you could not control access How many people would you involve?

Correct me if I am wrong but Doc and Ova were divorced a few years after the find?

I am going to wrap up (need to actually work) and ask a question that nobody answered

Why in the middle of the depression, when gasoline is difficult to come by, would a man drive 140 mile RT to go deer hunting. From what I can determine 3 to 4 hours each way

SFloto