Found at sea

[continental]

Hello guys! I am new to this forum and I hope to help others as well to receive some help from you. I'll be expanding my intro in the next days as I am just checking through all the stuff I got from the beach. Does anyone know where this might have come from? Just did a reverse image search on google but no luck. Found it on the sand in Yucatan Mexico.

Thanks!

 

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[el padron]

Hello guys! I am new to this forum and I hope to help others as well to receive some help from you. I'll be expanding my intro in the next days as I am just checking through all the stuff I got from the beach. Does anyone know where this might have come from? Just did a reverse image search on google but no luck. Found it on the sand in Yucatan Mexico.

Thanks!

Correction, I was thinking Baja..... So, all f the following applies to the Baja peninsula, not Yucatán...... Sorry about that.


Yucaton, That narrows it down........
There are two known confirmed manila galleon wreck sites on the Baja Peninsula.

Both top secret.

One is extremely remote, and if you know spanish, the areas name sheds some light on its location.
The other has Marines guarding it who don't quite knpw the real reason they are there.

Marines are now stationed at checkpoints at quite a few locations on the baja Peninsula, so they probably figure that they have been randomly deployed.

That looks interesting, Lots of porcelain and artifacts were found on the beach in the 70's and 80's Silver escudos and gold doubloons are few and far between, but they also have turned up at the second site.
Both sites are in shallow water relatively close to shore and they may have been submerdged at deeper levels at the time the Galleons wee wrecked.

The University of Mexico conducts occasional official organized excursions to one of the sites in cooperation with UC Davis.

They have recovered many artifacts, treasure, and some of the best preserved period complete Chinese porcelain ever found

Lots of money was raised and a Galleon meusem has been started by the Mexican tourist board but as of two years ago, the project has stalled due to the funds having been stolen and or squandered .

In many ways, the Baja Peninsula is what South Florida was 100 years ago in respect to the potential ease of finding real treasure.
Unbelievably beautifull desolate oceanfront expanse .

But there are problems.

Your find looks to be period and appears to possibly be 16th or 17th century Spanish ifluenced.

Is it comprised of silver?

 

[jeff of pa]

Welcome to TreasureNet ! *I moved your post to What Is It? since your asking

 

[Red-Coat]

Interesting piece.

The general form is what’s known as the “cross crosslet”, for which the four arms generally symbolise the spread of Christianity to the four corners of the world in an evangelical sense. Hence, it’s also known as the “mission cross”. One of the arms has been adapted into a trident, presumably to give it ‘maritime’ connotations.

I doubt that you’ll find it has a specific connection to anything beyond that.


ADDITION: Just for clarity, I meant modified by design of course... not modified after it was made.

 

[continental]

Correction, I was thinking Baja..... So, all f the following applies to the Baja peninsula, not Yucatán...... Sorry about that.


Yucaton, That narrows it down........
There are two known confirmed manila galleon wreck sites on the Baja Peninsula.

Both top secret.

One is extremely remote, and if you know spanish, the areas name sheds some light on its location.
The other has Marines guarding it who don't quite knpw the real reason they are there.

Marines are now stationed at checkpoints at quite a few locations on the baja Peninsula, so they probably figure that they have been randomly deployed.

That looks interesting, Lots of porcelain and artifacts were found on the beach in the 70's and 80's Silver escudos and gold doubloons are few and far between, but they also have turned up at the second site.
Both sites are in shallow water relatively close to shore and they may have been submerdged at deeper levels at the time the Galleons wee wrecked.

The University of Mexico conducts occasional official organized excursions to one of the sites in cooperation with UC Davis.

They have recovered many artifacts, treasure, and some of the best preserved period complete Chinese porcelain ever found

Lots of money was raised and a Galleon meusem has been started by the Mexican tourist board but as of two years ago, the project has stalled due to the funds having been stolen and or squandered .

In many ways, the Baja Peninsula is what South Florida was 100 years ago in respect to the potential ease of finding real treasure.
Unbelievably beautifull desolate oceanfront expanse .

But there are problems.

Your find looks to be period and appears to possibly be 16th or 17th century Spanish ifluenced.

Is it comprised of silver?

Yeah it is crazy. Mexico has a lot of places that haven't been explored yet and possibly a lot of treasures that hasn't been found. I didn't know about those ships in Baja Peninsula but I don't doubt it, although I believe it's incredible just to imagine how the europeans had plenty of guts to cross the atlantic and surround south america all the way up to Baja California in wooden boats haha.

The ones I am sure of is the sunken vessels in Cuba which are guarded by the marines. That country has 100 times more treasures than Yucatan.

 

[continental]

Interesting piece.

The general form is what’s known as the “cross crosslet”, for which the four arms generally symbolise the spread of Christianity to the four corners of the world in an evangelical sense. Hence, it’s also known as the “mission cross”. One of the arms has been adapted into a trident, presumably to give it ‘maritime’ connotations.

I doubt that you’ll find it has a specific connection to anything beyond that.


ADDITION: Just for clarity, I meant modified by design of course... not modified after it was made.

Thank you very much! Your description was very close, possibly it was custom made by the time is was built. So far I haven't found any similar combinations with cross crosslate and trident but I'll keep searching. What is also interesting is that germans are not from the mediterranean but from northern Europe, totally opposite from what I imagined.

What i found: Cross crosslet- in ancient times, the authorities would tattoo this onto Christians so they could identify who was a believer and who wasn't. The symbol consists of 4 Latin crosses pointing North, South, East, and West; the four corners of the world the Christian want spread the word of God to.

 

[Doubter in MD]

So what are its dimensions?

Based on the paper towel it's laying on I'm guessing it's about 1 1/4" long. While the pendant looks corroded the bail doesn't. I can't say how old it might be for sure but I don't think it's too old.

It's cool either way. I like how the design melds Christianity with a maritime twist. I couldn't find another example either but I wouldn't be surprised if someone does.

 

[A2coins]

Good info Red Coat awesome read out of this post nice find and welcome to tnet.......Tommy

 

[el padron]

Yeah it is crazy. Mexico has a lot of places that haven't been explored yet and possibly a lot of treasures that hasn't been found. I didn't know about those ships in Baja Peninsula but I don't doubt it, although I believe it's incredible just to imagine how the europeans had plenty of guts to cross the atlantic and surround south america all the way up to Baja California in wooden boats haha.

The ones I am sure of is the sunken vessels in Cuba which are guarded by the marines. That country has 100 times more treasures than Yucatan.

To establish trade with China in the the 1500's Spain colonized the Phillipines.

Ships from Spanish Acupulco were loaded with silver from the mexican mines and sailed to the Spanish Philippines were it was traded for Chinese goods like porcelain silk spices ornate gold jewelry, gold bullion etc. Aparently silver was somewhat rare in the Orient at this time and was extremely highly valued .

These were sent back to Acupulco (8 month trip) and auctioned off to wealthy officials and Politicians who craved them.
The bulk were shipped overland to be loaded onto waiting Gulf Coast based Galleons for the return ship to Spain were Chinese goods were highly valued.

These were the largest existing galleons of their time sometimes accompanied by naval escorts. About 2 made the westerly trip to the Phillipines yearly starting about 1599 until about 1800.

For the return voyage Galleons were often rush built in the Phillipines as many of the Mexican and European made ones were no longer sea worthy after just a few trips.

By many accounts about about 25% of the Manila Galleons were lost mostly in the straits off the coast of Japan and the Phillipines.

They typically made land fall north of San Fransisco and then followed the coast back down to Acapulco.

There are two well publicised Manila galleon wrecks sites off the California state coast one in Drakes bay, the other off Catalina Island.

Some were lost in Baja California and have yet to be searched for or found.

 

[el padron]

Hello guys! I am new to this forum and I hope to help others as well to receive some help from you. I'll be expanding my intro in the next days as I am just checking through all the stuff I got from the beach. Does anyone know where this might have come from? Just did a reverse image search on google but no luck. Found it on the sand in Yucatan Mexico.

Thanks!

Congrats on your find by the way.

If it was an American mid 19th century century bullet or beltbuckle instead of a historical remnant from the dawn of the Spanish conquest of the Americas you could have possibly made banner.

 

[Doubter in MD]

Congrats on your find by the way.

If it was an American mid 19th century century bullet or beltbuckle instead of a historical remnant from the dawn of the Spanish conquest of the Americas you could have possibly made banner.

You seem quite convinced that this piece of jewelry is very old and of Spanish origin. All I see is a necklace sized pendant or a charm for a bracelet with a bail that isn't tarnished, leading me to think the bail MIGHT be stainless steel.

I'm curious. What's your basis for your conclusion?

 

[BLK HOLE]

Very cool and welcome to t-net

 

[el padron]

You seem quite convinced that this piece of jewelry is very old and of Spanish origin. All I see is a necklace sized pendant or a charm for a bracelet with a bail that isn't tarnished, leading me to think the bail MIGHT be stainless steel.

I'm curious. What's your basis for your conclusion?

WELL....The OP hasn't answered any of my questions, but what's your basis for the countless dozens of "US' civil war' belt buckles that have been completely without question promoted to banner for years and years?

The ones that are completely identicle to the perfect reproductions sold as souvenirs all over the midwest

Many were simply presented with a short narrative and immediately posted to banner.
Do you think they are all real? How about all the arrowheads that have been posted?

Do you think they are all real? Or do you just want them to be.?

This is a pretty specialized item with a backstory and some detail that very very few would even know to counterfeit.

It deserves a lot more interest then many of the completely uncontested banner items that have been posted through the years.

 

[Doubter in MD]

I apologize for confusing you. I’m not sure whether it’s a banner find or not. Your comments and opinions on things that do make it up top vs what you think should be really wasn’t what I was commenting on.

You seem really certain that this is an old item that’s very unique and valuable in some way, historically, possibly monetarily? What makes you think this?