Geocaching is giving Treasure hunting a bad rap

[coinshooter]

These idiot's are causing legislation to be put in place that could potentially close off previously open areas to TH'ers. Read this article. Sounds like this "hobby" has run it's course with "911" issues becoming so popular. Maybe it's time for these guys to invent some new rules to govern theirselves.

http://www.thecolumbiastar.com/news/2005/0520/Front_Page/001.html

 

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[dudes2112]

The problem with this situation is that a geo cacher can be coming from a million different directions to the final treasure area, the gps points in a straight line from the users current position to the treasure without regard to who owns the property in between. The only way around this is to maybe establish a starting point that can be reached by roads and then start the hunt from there so you know which direction the cachers will be traveling. Ultimately it is up to the cacher to be aware of where they are and when.

On the other hand, I don't think the majority of the cachers are being malicious as they are cutting across private property to get to the target. It would be very difficult to know exactly where you are at all times, especially in the woods.

Burying treasure on private property would be another thing altogether.

Dudes

 

[wmas1960]

Before being so harsh, I would like to call attention to the fact that it isn't all geocachers that are so inconsiderate.? I have been following Geocaching for about 3 years now.? I bought the GPS reciever but never did get out to do a hunt.? ?I have read some of the groups dedicated to the subject and have read many of the clues for caches in my area.? ?In my belief, I feel that Geocaching is much like Metal Detecting and Treasure Hunting, in that there are those who go into it casually and without thought for the betterment of their hobby.? In fact it may not be a HOBBY to some.? ?Just a thrill or past time.?

Some people, I believe most, are conciensious to create a fun hobby for those who want to get out with their families into the parks and forests.... They come up with simple or safe tasks for the finder to engage in.? They post clear instructions and plant their caches in acceptable areas that are not harmful to the environment or are not too dangerous for finders.? But then, there are others who just don't care.

As I have read in the past, planting a cache, in the post 9/11 era, along the entrance of a Rairload tunnel or along side some railroad tracks is not a good idea.? ?Story goes, if I am not confusing it with another, the planter of the cache was arrested and, not knowing what was inside it, the cache was blown up by bomb squad people.? ?This has, reportedly, happened several times recently.? People planting caches should be sensitive of such issues.? Railroads, Airports, Bridges and Tunnels etc. should not be considered good locations for "Conventional" caches.? ?"Virtual Caches", might be another story.? These are caches where one goes and finds a landmark.? They take a picture of themselves at that location or locate some information or data that is gathered from a posted site. Say part of an inscription on a Civil War Monument or other landmark.? Then post it on the website, or email it to the creator of the cache so their find can be verified and the find recorded on their scores on the website.? They do try and protect from "Spoilers" or other clues or photos that would give away the location.? No harm is done to the sensitive surroundings and nothing is left to make authorities or other people a little tense or nervous.? Imagin, walking around downtown Chicago and finding a plastic tube or a strange tupperware container hidden in a planting at the entrance to a historic building or something.? Or along the fence of an airport or hidden on the platform of a railroad stop.? ? Perhaps manacured parks or landmarks.? Monuments sensitive infrastructure or city environmnets are good candidates for such caches.? Most depostiors or creators are sensitive to these issues and in relation to their caches in parks and forests, they maintain them regularly and work with the custodians of the property to monitor the activity around them.? They plant them near established paths or in accessable areas to the public.? I have read many cach listings where they DO specifically give directions of where to and where NOT to park.? The general direction into the park or woods....? ? They help the finders avoid "Bushwhacking.? Then, there are those looking for caches.? Probably the biggest problems. Some will follow those posted instructions and go for a nice walk along trails etc.? ? That is what many caches are intended for.? To encourage people to go to certain places they might otherwise not.? Using acceptable routes.? But, some don't have the patience to wander the established trails.? They bushwhack their way through, damaging the environment and wildlife habitats.? ?They cut corners and go accross private property.?

Some, I am sure, look for odd locations like cemetaries etc. I would point out the numerous posts here of Metal Detectorists who search cemetaries.? ?Aren't they just as guilty of damaging the hallowed environment or violating the sanctity of these sites?? ?I read posts time and again showing finds that someone found in a cemetary.? People respond, good find.... Keep up the good work.? ?And these are the more consciouensious and well meaning among us.? Those who have the interest and motivation to follow seriously and post.? Think of those who don't know of these groups.? Don't engage in such debates.? Who don't follow or even care about these issues.? ?I am sure there are many treasure seekers out there who are underground, so to speak.? ?They are in this for the purpose to find treasure and profit.? They don't look for the fun or the history or the pure satisfaction of being out there and having a nice day.? ?They don't care about the history of what they dig.? Unless it is directly relevent to what they can get for an item if they sell it on eBay.? ? ?I think that it is just as disrespectful to be roaming a cemetary with a metal detector, digging up knives or coins or jewelry... as it is to be going in there hiding and looking for caches or playing caching games.? ?If I had a loved one buried in a cemetary and I saw cachers and treasure hunters roaming all over the place I would be a bit insensed.? ? ?


To get an idea of what a cache is all about, go to www.geocaching.com and look up caches in your area.? Put in your zip code and see what is near by.?

 

[Cladius]

I have met several people Letter boxing/geocaching over the last few years and have yet to see one of the damage any property or tresspass. I wish I could say the same for all of the MDers out there. Cladius.

 

[chirper97]

The real jerks are the legislators trying to get tube time by creating a fictitious "crisis". I truly doubt that there is a lot of repeating geocaches in a particular cemetery or that grave sites are being desecrated in any way. If there are, the caretaker should deal with the problem as it occurs.

Md'ers who detect in/around cemeteries are not exhuming or desecrating bodies; they are exploring what may have been inadvertently lost as people visited, picnicked, and tended to the gravesites. Freguently they are exploring their own family's area of a cemetery. Often small cemeteries have been entirely forgotten. That is really sad.

IMHO The whole planet Earth is hallowed. Every time I see a mountain top removal project, a part of me is saddened. Big bucks, and easy access to the coal seem to override any objections to this practice. D**N the creeks, trees, and mountains...there's $$$ to be made for out of state corporations!! No crying or legislation to protect Mother Earth seems forthcoming. Entire cemeteries have been obliterated or moved if they are in the way of $$$ progress.

 

[wmas1960]

A couple of things regarding the last post. First though, my point above was only to state that I don't think it is right to take the recent legislative actions and focus all the blame on Geocachers. Just like in Metal Detecting, there are those who are serious and considerate of the environment, private property.... Are well meaning and just out to enjoy the outdoors engaging in a harmless hobby. I read here the efforts that people have to take all the trash out with them, fill the holes and properly dig plugs so as not to kill grass and leave parks and lawns a shambles. I also read the Geocaching boards and read of their CITO events, (Cache In Trash Out), where they go in with a motive to clean up abused and littered areas. A kin to say, planting a cache on a horribly trashy beach to draw attention to the area and encourage people to each take a little garbage with them as they leave. Hopefully the area is cleaner after the cache is placed than it was before. Cachers who participate in the Geocaching Forums seem to be just as consciensous as many of us are about keeping our hobbies on a upward level. If you read some cache clues, you will find that most do give proper directions on how to pursue and locate the cache. They locate the containers in reasonable access to established trails or in locations where people are expected to be. While a cache may be hidden, they are, usually, not burried. They may be covered by leaves or branches, hidden in the fork of a tree, stuck with a magnet to the back of a sign in a "Micro Cache".... Caches should not and usually don't contain dangerous items. Mostly they are "Happy Meal" toys or the like. Maybe a disposable camera for people to take their pictures and leave for the cache owner. Batteries for your GPS or Film for your camera. Dog treats for your best friend and so on.

But then, just like with MDing, there are those who don't have such concern or care. They put fireworks or alcohol in a cache that might be accessed by children. They put their caches in dangerous environments or among drug paraphenalia like needles.... where someone could get hurt looking for it. They may plant suspicious containers in sensitive areas that prompt calling of explosive removal experts since nobody can know what is inside. Others, clearly mark the cache as a cache along with contact information to the owner or custodian of the cache. They put their caches in clear see through containers etc.

So, All I am saying here is that if we are going to blame those irresponsible cachers for the harm they are doing that leads to such legislative overreaction, we need to also look at the Metal Detecotists out there who dig up lawns or parks and don't fill their holes on the beach or just throw the garbage that they find on top of the sand..... Those who give people an impression that we are a nuissance.

I like to think, that I am doing a service to the public with my hobby. Last night I had my detector on Relic, to see the difference from Coin and Jewelry and Jewelry Beach..... I found pieces of sharp metal that was badly rusted. Lots of nails. Chopped up beer cans and other items that could be harmful if stepped on in bare feet. I put the stuff in my pocket and take it with me. While that beach is so bad that I can't make much of a difference myself, I still feel I left it better than I found it. I kicked sand in all the holes and smoothed them over so there isn't anything to trip in and you hardly know I was there. Then you have those who don't use such care. They can be cachers, MDrs or just kids playing in the sand who leave holes for people to trip in....

I have strayed some from the original points that I wanted to make but I think we need to look at ourselves as well as others when we see the reactions that are mentioned here. The article that was posted above mentiones Geocaching, but it could just as easilly, and has in some othe cases, be Metal Detectors that raise the ire of the legislatures. Why do you think we can't search in many state and national parks. Even the campgrounds..... We have been there, so to speak. Now it is Geocachers who are getting the attention because, as I see it, when they came after us, they weren't an issue at the time or the laws might have said Metal Detecting and Geocaching Prohibited..... Some of those among us may be just as guilty of creating this problem.

As for your points about searching cemeteries. And this is only my opinion. In a similar thread that I read a few days ago, the subject of Bad Karma and all came about. Respect for the families and loved ones of those burried in a cemetery.... And the peacefulness and sanctity of the surroundings. What you are talking of. Picking up items that are truely lost by visitors, isn't the issue, as I see it. And, I would point, these are my feelings. Others have their own positions and that is fine. However, in that other thread, it was mentioned that in some cultures, it is customary to throw coins on a loved ones grave. Or to leave relics of some sort as a rememberance. To use some previously posted examples, A childs toy or action figure or whatever for a child who died. Perhaps a war medal, a cherished memento or a piece of jewelry or something of significant memory for another person.... and so on. How do you know that the ring you find isn't something that is intended to be left for the deceased. Or the coin that you find wasn't part of a burial rite.

I don't intend to rain on anyones parade but, these are the issues that concern ME and would be why I wouldn't search in a cemetery. Around park areas adjacent to the plots or maybe in a parking lot etc. but not in burial areas.

 

[chirper97]

Great post wmas1960

Food for thought!

 

[magicrain]

I am new to this site: but have been geo-caching with my family (3 children under 9). for about a year or so.? We love getting outside and enjoy "the hunt".? we have been in many cemetaries and been sensitive to morners.?We do not go around to graves, we just do our field work for the caches.We view graves as private and therefore do not tresspass on them , plus I always thought it was bad luck to walk over graves!!!!!!!! i think there is always a bad apple in every bunch.

 

[ericwt]

I would suggest to you that it is Treasure Hunters that are giving treasure hunting a bad rap. People who don't ask for permission,and trash the area,do far worse then a geocacher tresspassing.

Ericwt

 

[The-Hangman]

Thanks for the post. I have been following Geo-caching in the news for a couple of years now. It seems to me that like most anything when people come together and start a new movement or hobby or other similar practice there is always people who will carry it one more step further. Geo-caching is innocent enough and many Geo-cachers do clean up paths and sites as part of their experience. Generally digging holes is not required since caches are hid above ground. The problem has come since 9-11 where our perception of terrorism has been heightened. Today people will report others to the police for conducting themselves in some activity that they may be unfamiliar with, such as hidding a Geo-cache under a bridge. The NPS, USFS, BLM, and other federal agencies are now writting policy and law to deal with Geo-caching on public lands. Letterboxing, which is similar to Geo-caching (without the GPS unit) began in England and recently has become a new craze for some here in the U.S. Lawmakers have already begun to target letterboxing. Bad judgement as to where to place a Geo-cache or letterbox has indeed created much fervor with law makers aiming to restrict or ban the practice.

Although common sense would seem to resolve the issue - not everyone has common sense. But does that mean we need to pass laws to restrict or control that which should be seen as harmless fun. Has it given the THing community a bad rap? Yes, but only because those in government who have stewardship over public lands are working their hardest to keep the public off those lands. They are responsible for falsely linking "Treasure hunters" to looters, grave robbers and thieves. By casting Geo-cachers and letterboxers into the THing category simply widens their attacks on people using public lands. As far as Geo-caching in graveyards,
under bridges, historical sites, etc. - Thats nothing more then poor judgement. We don't need more LAWS!!!

The Hangman 8)

 

[dudes2112]

...and once again, instead of punishing the 1% of people that are breaking the laws they will cast a net over the whole group and end up punishing the 99% that are doing the right thing.

Dudes

 

[corncrasher]

I was just checking th geocaching website just because I was currious. I typed in my zip code and the first cache I read about is on private land. I know the land owner and area and doubt anybody has got any permission. I would be pissed If I found out people from all over the country are tresspassing over my land looking for something someone burried there with out me knowing. This does not seem to bother these people. I used to could go just about anywhere here because people respected the land owners and asked permission for hunting and what ever, but more and more land is getting closed off and posted because people no longer care and they go wherever they please. I started checking out geocaching because I thought it might be interesting but I'm forming a bad opinion of it from what I have seen.

 

[wmas1960]

Here you are, engaging in the very judgement that we metal detectorists or treasure hunters, however you engage in that endevor,? dispise from the public and government officials.? Blaming an entire hobby or group for the ill actions of a few.? ?There may very well be some caches placed in inappropriate places like on private property.? I will say, that I don't condone that.? I believe though that such incidents are a minority of all the caches that have been placed in the few short years that Geocaching has been around.? ?It has been some time since I read Geocaching.com in any detailed way, but I do recall that if there is a complaint like what you are describing, you can contact the webmaster and report the inappropriate nature of a cache or clues in a cache etc.? ?If you find the cache and feel it's contents are innappropriate, or you feel that the directions to the cache lead people onto destructive or dangerous paths or onto private property (Tresspassing) etc.? you can report it and, I believe, if your report is supported, the cache will be removed from the site.? ?

It is also possible to contact the owner or custodian of the cache and notify them that the cache is innappropriate and should be removed or that the clues or contents should be altered etc.? ?And, in the case of the land owner,? he can contact the owner/custodian and demand that the cache be removed.? ?If it is that serious of a tresspass on this land, the land owner could call the authorities and file a complaint against the person who placed the cache etc.?

I don't mean to trivialize your post or your points.? I am just pointing out that you come out and make a blanket condemnation of "These People" which sounds like Geocachers in general, based on one cache listing that you read.? I know from most of the listings in my area, they are clearly on public lands.? ?I don't know of any, personally, that require one to go onto restricted, protected or private property.? ?Except, maybe, a couple I read in Las Vegas where you have to go to a Hotel Pool or to a Museum Display in one Hotel to find a certain web camera and find some clue.? However,while legally and technically, private property, that is a place of public access and I think, was done with the hotels knowlege or cooperation.? Anyways, if we can complain about it being unfair for us to be restricted in parks or on beaches, etc., because of some who don't use due care when they search.? A few that I might add are an extreme minority, than we shouldn't be going out and criticizing another entire hobby for the few who go about their activities carelessly or recklessly.?

Also, again, to point out, Most caches are not buried.? They are usually hidden amongst natural hiding places.? Say rocks, branches and logs, weeds or leaves....? ? If someone did, in fact, bury this cache you mention, and it requires people to, further, destroy the property than, Definately, I would complain of that fact to the cache owner, report it to the Geocaching.com webmaster and notify the authorities.? ?

 

[corncrasher]

I wasn't making a blanket statement about just the geocaching people, I'm pissed at everybody. Yes I have a bad attitude right now about people.

 

[tammahawk]

should only be allowed were they have permission to do so, then who can complain?, i do know if it starts messing with our sport im gonna be HOT!!!!!, geocachers beware, do not ruin our sport ! there are many who will not be as nice as me,tammahawk

 

[mvSWAT]

Geocaching is a lot of fun, especially for the kids. There are a lot of guidelines that unfortunately many don't follow. I've always lived by the cache in trash out rule just I like I do MDing. And would never put a cache on private property without permission just like I'd ask before MDing. I'd have to agree that it's the 1% that ruins it for everyone.....besides, when news is reported people tend not to be too interested in a good positive story....they want the dirt, that's what makes papers sell. Just my 2 cents. Happy Hunting.

 

[dudes2112]

You nailed it SWAT, you only hear about the bad stuff, for the most part... Usually it is made to look like the majority are doing things the wrong way.

Dudes