George Washington Mourning Urn Cufflink

[zaxfire69]

Today was the day I dug my first George Washington find. I have dreamed of finding a GW button for many years. Today I revisited a site where I dug some 1780’s and 1790’s Spanish Silvers. The day began just like any other...looking for the iron...🤪. I switched my F75 to 4 tone and listened for anything over an iron grunt. First target was a tombac. Then nails for an hour. Then I got a high squeak amongst the iron. Dug my plug and there it was.

I didn’t think much of it until I saw the Urn... [emoji15]
Then my heart starting beating hard. I snapped two pictures then came home to research.


Reproduction picture for clarity.


After I researched I found it to be the Rare George Washington Mourning Cufflink. My favorite find to date! Thank you all for looking.

 

[CRUSADER]

Just curious, is there a back mark on any of those ?

Not any I've heard of or seen.

 

[zaxfire69]

Crusader. Why do all the George Washington sites on the internet list this design as a George Washington Memorial Urn Button? Are all of these internet sites just shams? OR is there some justification to this claim?

 

[petroguy3666]

Super cool find, congrats

 

[metalev4]

Very nice find!

 

[CRUSADER]

Crusader. Why do all the George Washington sites on the internet list this design as a George Washington Memorial Urn Button? Are all of these internet sites just shams? OR is there some justification to this claim?

It grows a life of itself. Thats why I'm putting a stop to it on Tnet. We don't want another internet site copying the mistakes of others. You show me a source that lists a commission of a manufacturer who did these for GW & it might sway my mind on just 1 of the many varieties.

 

[Iron Patch]

Crusader. Why do all the George Washington sites on the internet list this design as a George Washington Memorial Urn Button? Are all of these internet sites just shams? OR is there some justification to this claim?

I could provide a few answers to that question, and the best reply is actually asking you a question. If it is GW than why are none in Alberts or other books, and why did Harold Cobb, the person who had assembled the largest collection of GW buttons, even including ones that were just associated, not have any of these oval urns?

The other answers.... It makes them more valuable.... can't be dis-proven...people often choose what they want to believe and ignore the facts and what makes the most sense. Is it possible someone wore that button to mourn Washington... sure, but is it just as possible, or more, it wasn't, yep. But at the end of the day there's only one thing that counts, which is.... Were these urn buttons specifically made in mass numbers to mourn Washington, and I personally don't believe that to be the case. I think your button likely made its way from Great Britain during the Colonial days just like a George copper would. So with that said, I agree with Crusader all the way, but I also agree with others in the sense it's a good early find. ...And if anyone wants to believe it's GW, that's cool too.

 

[Silver Searcher]

There must have been a lot of mourners for GW over here in the UK, because we find a lot.

SS

 

[CRUSADER]

I could provide a few answers to that question, and the best reply is actually asking you a question. If it is GW than why are none in Alberts or other books, and why did Harold Cobb, the person who had assembled the largest collection of GW buttons, even including ones that were just associated, not have any of these oval urns?

The other answers.... It makes them more valuable.... can't be dis-proven...people often choose what they want to believe and ignore the facts and what makes the most sense. Is it possible someone wore that button to mourn Washington... sure, but is it just as possible, or more, it wasn't, yep. But at the end of the day there's only one thing that counts, which is.... Were these urn buttons specifically made in mass numbers to mourn Washington, and I personally don't believe that to be the case. I think your button likely made its way from Great Britain during the Colonial days just like a George copper would. So with that said, I agree with Crusader all the way, but I also agree with other in the sense it's a good early find. ...And if anyone wants to believe it's GW, that's cool too.

Exactly, most will know by now I never belittle a good find, its all about getting to the facts, as best we know it.

I would believe it a little more, 'IF' the urn actually was a match for the GW one, that would make a better argument. Plus why wouldn't you put a GW on it to really get your point across. (bearing in mind there was loads of competition that looked the same) Many of these period linked-buttons had names or words on it, so why not this one?

However, the problem we have here, is one bad source copying the other, & unless people like us who have the interest & passion put a stop to it, it will grow beyond control.

The only good news is that those that do get suckered are not us serious collectors, its the poor bottom feeders that know no better. So lets all try & protect them, which seems a nice thing to do, right?

 

[Scrappy]

Exactly, most will know by now I never belittle a good find, its all about getting to the facts, as best we know it.

I would believe it a little more, 'IF' the urn actually was a match for the GW one, that would make a better argument. Plus why wouldn't you put a GW on it to really get your point across. (bearing in mind there was loads of competition that looked the same) Many of these period linked-buttons had names or words on it, so why not this one?

However, the problem we have here, is one bad source copying the other, & unless people like us who have the interest & passion put a stop to it, it will grow beyond control.

The only good news is that those that do get suckered are not us serious collectors, its the poor bottom feeders that know no better. So lets all try & protect them, which seems a nice thing to do, right?

Unfortunately a single bad source can be infectious in the “Google Era”. Misinformation grows by a sale here and a Tnet post there, until it takes a life of its own. I spend the time and money purchasing trusted printed sources because I have found the saturation level of misinformation on the web has reached critical mass. Human nature is that people hear what they want and disregard information that doesn’t agree with their own beliefs. The sum of search engines and poor information is a perfect recipe for disaster. So, if a see something on Tnet that I know isn’t correct I speak up at risk of sounding like a Sally Soul snatcher or Debby Downer.

Heck, a gold ring isn’t 18th century just because someone titles his post as such....

 

[Iron Patch]

Unfortunately a single bad source can be infectious in the “Google Era”. Misinformation grows by a sale here and a Tnet post there, until it takes a life of its own. I spend the time and money purchasing trusted printed sources because I have found the saturation level of misinformation on the web has reached critical mass. Human nature is that people hear what they want and disregard information that doesn’t agree with their own beliefs. The sum of search engines and poor information is a perfect recipe for disaster. So, if a see something on Tnet that I know isn’t correct I speak up at risk of sounding like a Sally Soul snatcher or Debby Downer.

Heck, a gold ring isn’t 18th century just because someone titles his post as such....

Here's another example. Neither are 23rd Regiment. At least three times I have seen these saddle shields posted believing they had found a great Rev War relic. I know another site had one for sale for about $400. So same idea as the urn buttons.... and also misc. tudor rose buttons that people call Rev War Navy, and the trunk plates or whatever they are, called belt plates. All cool stuff, but nothing significant. And btw... That opinion goes against my own personal finds because I've basically found all of those!

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/british-23rd-regiment-royal-welsh-1876318981

 

[CRUSADER]

Here's another example. Neither are 23rd Regiment. At least three times I have seen these saddle shields posted believing they had found a great Rev War relic. I know another site had one for sale for about $400. So same idea as the urn buttons.... and also misc. tudor rose buttons that people call Rev War Navy, and the trunk plates or whatever they are, called belt plates. All cool stuff, but nothing significant. And btw... That opinion goes against my own personal finds because I've basically found all of those!

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/british-23rd-regiment-royal-welsh-1876318981

Yes agreed, dispelled all of those.

 

[zaxfire69]

Well If one of you administrators wouldn't mind please change the title of my post to Urn Cufflink. Just take the George Washington Mourning off of the title. I am having trouble editing the post. Thank you in advance and for the information.

 

[Scrappy]

Here's another example. Neither are 23rd Regiment. At least three times I have seen these saddle shields posted believing they had found a great Rev War relic. I know another site had one for sale for about $400. So same idea as the urn buttons.... and also misc. tudor rose buttons that people call Rev War Navy, and the trunk plates or whatever they are, called belt plates. All cool stuff, but nothing significant. And btw... That opinion goes against my own personal finds because I've basically found all of those!

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/british-23rd-regiment-royal-welsh-1876318981

That’s a good one. I especially like the disclaimer at the bottom of the explanation. Unfortunately if it’s posted three times already that’s as good as the PAS according to some.

 

[zaxfire69]

Great discussion guys. When I find a GW button on this site the Urn button will be back in the finds feed. Just saying. I'm going to dig this site till nothing is left.

 

[Scrappy]

Great discussion guys. When I find a GW button on this site the Urn button will be back in the finds feed. Just saying. I'm going to dig this site till nothing is left.

That’s the attitude! Sterilize that site - iron and all. Good luck, I think you’ll make some great finds

 

[hbru123]

Amazing find! Congrats!

 

[Ahab8]

Great discussion guys. When I find a GW button on this site the Urn button will be back in the finds feed. Just saying. I'm going to dig this site till nothing is left.

In fairness Zax it’s a fantastic find! I love early designed links. And you have the right attitude. Just keep digging targets and see what pops up. I dug a Welsh Plume saddle shield awhile back that several sources identify as early military. It is not what they claim but it’s still a killer early piece. Since I don’t sell anything I care little about value or hype surrounding a find. So keep on digging and keep on posting killer stuff. That’s all we can do

 

[Iron Patch]

Given the discussion didn't go sideways, and was quite the opposite really, I will treat you all to the story of my urn button find. I've never even told Ironhorse this story, and he actually doesn't even know I found one... and all I can say is thank God it's not a GW button. I will also say this was a very long time ago and in no way affects my opinion on them as I've learned a lot since then.


Shortly after starting detecting, probably in 2000, or could have even been 2001, IH and I were hunting a big plowed field on a river and not really having much success, so we kept walking South and made it to a small field that was right between the field we were in, and a golf course, and a hole from the course right beside us. So we start swinging and popping old targets, early buttons and I assume a few coins too. It's hard to remember much about it, and it's a spot we never went back to. Anyway, one of the buttons I found was oval and it looked like a cup on it. So I figured it was nothing special and just a more modern button that a golfer had lost... because it looked like a cup. Back then I was selling some doubles of my military button finds, the junk, and relics that weren't particularly interesting to me... and I sold the "golf cup" button for like $15. It was not something I thought about for a few years after until I started seeing them found in the UK and I made the connection of what I really had, and was sour I had been so stupid and sold it because I've always kept all my best early designed buttons, and still do.

So maybe it's not a GW button, but at least it's not a modern golf cup button. Maybe someday I'll find another, but that's the only one that has ever turned up on our hunts, and between us we've dug multiple thousands of buttons. But maybe someday.

 

[Steve in PA]

Given the discussion didn't go sideways, and was quite the opposite really, I will treat you all to the story of my urn button find. I've never even told Ironhorse this story, and he actually doesn't even know I found one... and all I can say is thank God it's not a GW button. I will also say this was a very long time ago and in no way affects my opinion on them as I've learned a lot since then.


Shortly after starting detecting, probably in 2000, or could have even been 2001, IH and I were hunting a big plowed field on a river and not really having much success, so we kept walking South and made it to a small field that was right between the field we were in, and a golf course, and a hole from the course right beside us. So we start swinging and popping old targets, early buttons and I assume a few coins too. It's hard to remember much about it, and it's a spot we never went back to. Anyway, one of the buttons I found was oval and it looked like a cup on it. So I figured it was nothing special and just a more modern button that a golfer had lost... because it looked like a cup. Back then I was selling some doubles of my military button finds, the junk, and relics that weren't particularly interesting to me... and I sold the "golf cup" button for like $15. It was not something I thought about for a few years after until I started seeing them found in the UK and I made the connection of what I really had, and was sour I had been so stupid and sold it because I've always kept all my best early designed buttons, and still do.

So maybe it's not a GW button, but at least it's not a modern golf cup button. Maybe someday I'll find another, but that's the only one that has ever turned up on our hunts, and between us we've dug multiple thousands of buttons. But maybe someday.

Maybe if you go back to that spot you will find another one. And who knows what else might turn up?

 

[Scrappy]

Maybe if you go back to that spot you will find another one. And who knows what else might turn up?

Good idea. Didn’t IP get a fancy new machine last season? Maybe when it thaws in May....