Get date from unmarked Gold?

BVI Hunter · Dec 13, 2013

Is it possible to "date" a bar if its unmarked but quite regular in shape?

Did certain people at certain times in history go through phases of shaping bars in different ways?

In theory, if a bar is completely unmarked / stamped, it could have been moulded by anyone at all?

thanks!!

huntsman53 · Dec 13, 2013

Me thinks you made a significant find Captain!

I will try to answer your question to the best of my ability. Spain and other Countries molded Gold Bars in certain sizes, shapes, dimensions and even weights during certain times and those sizes, shapes, dimensions and weights evolved over time. It is quite possible to pinpoint who made them and an era of time when Gold Bars such as seen in the pic were made. However, no definite Date could be determined without the Dating of other items found in the same general location (i.e. cannons, dated coins or other dated items). If there are that many Gold Bars laying at or near the surface of the bottom, then there will probably be more Gold and/or Silver Bars laying much deeper that will likely have some markings that will allow them to be dated. If you find any of these, then you can pretty much put a date on the umarked bars! If all of the Gold Bars in the pic are are completely unmarked, then they were apparently contraband being smuggled to avoid taxes.

Frank

RELICDUDE07 · Dec 13, 2013

Trust me -he didn't find that stuff...No 1 that found that would have time to take a picture or tell anyone about it !! My guess is it would be native gold to that area, before it was stolen & marked with other Nations tax seals...

huntsman53 · Dec 13, 2013

RELICDUDE07 said:
Trust me -he didn't find that stuff...No 1 that found that would have time to take a picture or tell anyone about it !! My guess is it would be native gold to that area, before it was stolen & marked with other Nations tax seals...

And you know this to be a fact and how

?? And I guess you don't believe he found the items shown in the Thread at the link below

!!! I guess the Gold Bars could be a find by someone else and he is just posting the pic and asking the question on here for them! However, I am hoping that BVI Hunter found them!

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/t...beep-yes-when-its-full-coins.html#post3383195

Frank

Red_desert · Dec 13, 2013

"Is it possible to "date" a bar if its unmarked but quite regular in shape?"

I think "a bar" might suggest finding only one, but only he can answer the question about making any finds.

SADS 669 · Dec 14, 2013

huntsman53 said:
And you know this to be a fact and how?? And I guess you don't believe he found the items shown in the Thread at the link below!!! I guess the Gold Bars could be a find by someone else and he is just posting the pic and asking the question on here for them! However, I am hoping that BVI Hunter found them! http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/today-s-finds/355763-does-coral-beep-yes-when-its-full-coins.html#post3383195 Frank

Hey BVI,

Sedgewicks are your best bet or contact my buddy at monacoauctions@aol.com he will almost certainly know. He's in Nassau at the moment, I'll call him and ask too. He is a real wealth of info about this because he has thousands of artifacts he is trying to set up in a Caribbean museum here.

BVI Hunter · Dec 14, 2013

I like the contraband theory!!!

BVI Hunter · Dec 14, 2013

As a footnote - never said I took the picture.

its the closest example to what I am enquiring about, and easier than trying to describe a bar with mere words -

If such a bar (or three) had been found :2barsgold:

, you're right, I certainly wouldn't be putting a picture on here!!

I have made that mistake before!

BVI Hunter · Dec 14, 2013

huntsman53 said:
And you know this to be a fact and how?? And I guess you don't believe he found the items shown in the Thread at the link below!!! I guess the Gold Bars could be a find by someone else and he is just posting the pic and asking the question on here for them! However, I am hoping that BVI Hunter found them!

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/t...beep-yes-when-its-full-coins.html#post3383195

Frank

Hey Frank

pretty much EXACTLY what I just said to you in my PM, yes? too funny!

BVI Hunter · Dec 14, 2013

SADS 669 said:
Hey BVI,

Sedgewicks are your best bet or contact my buddy at monacoauctions@aol.com he will almost certainly know. He's in Nassau at the moment, I'll call him and ask too. He is a real wealth of info about this because he has thousands of artifacts he is trying to set up in a Caribbean museum here.

Thanks SADS - was in touch with Sedgewicks briefly about some of the silver coins - but things have gone off grid since then.

I also got you message about your mate, hopefully he will get in touch - cheers again!

RELICDUDE07 · Dec 14, 2013

The native /indians cast gold all the time.....That's where the Spanish stole it from..They didn't bring much from Spain over to give to others.......You may have a found a sunk dugout canoe!lol

old man · Dec 14, 2013

BVI Hunter, I am not a metallurgist, but you may want to do some research on the internet. A Lot of things can be found out today through scientific analysis. For instance wood and coal can be sent for examination to determine which Country or Region they came from. You could probably find out the same thing from having a piece of gold examined.

Like someone else posted. The best way would be to find something from the wreck site ( I'm guessing these came from a wreck somewhere close by ) that can date the wreck. Good Luck and if it were me? I would try and keep the site quiet. :icon_thumright:

Jason in Enid · Dec 14, 2013

Dating a metal bar can be very tough. If it's an official bar, it will have government markings which might be traceable. If it's a private, or smugglers, bar then it wont have any markings at all. Dating an umarked bar would be almost impossible. As others said, it would be a wiser approach to date the other materials found near the bar(s) such as wood, porceline, eating utensils, cookware, etc.

BVI Hunter · Dec 14, 2013

Jason in Enid said:
Dating a metal bar can be very tough. If it's an official bar, it will have government markings which might be traceable. If it's a private, or smugglers, bar then it wont have any markings at all. Dating an umarked bar would be almost impossible. As others said, it would be a wiser approach to date the other materials found near the bar(s) such as wood, porceline, eating utensils, cookware, etc.

No distinguishable markings that I can make out - and "form" is very irregular - kinda looks like a do-it-yourself effort!

SADS 669 · Dec 14, 2013

BVI Hunter said:
No distinguishable markings that I can make out - and "form" is very irregular - kinda looks like a do-it-yourself effort! <img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=913097"/>

Go on then, I'll bite, I assume you didn't take this photo either? dde0a " gold bar boy" said he contacted you.........

old man · Dec 14, 2013

BVI Hunter said:
No distinguishable markings that I can make out - and "form" is very irregular - kinda looks like a do-it-yourself effort!

View attachment 913097

BVI Hunter, If there are no markings on them or tax stamps. I think it would be a pretty good bet that they are contraband bars.

huntsman53 · Dec 14, 2013

BVI Hunter said:
Hey Frank

pretty much EXACTLY what I just said to you in my PM, yes? too funny!

Yep! You were "Johnny on the Spot" with that one! LOL!!

Frank

huntsman53 · Dec 14, 2013

SADS 669 said:
Go on then, I'll bite, I assume you didn't take this photo either? dde0a " gold bar boy" said he contacted you.........

Kevin,

Who said Gold Bar??!! :dontknow:

It is a stirrer for stirring stews, soups and whatever else one cooks up, just little fancier than most. :laughing7:

The problem is, that it can double as an early Proctologist's probe! Oooh...even I cringe at the thought of that. :icon_scratch:

Frank

P.S. How you doing mate? I hope all is well with you and wish you and yours a safe and Merry Christmas and a very Happy New Year! Cheers!!!

RELICDUDE07 · Dec 14, 2013

SADS 669 · Dec 14, 2013

huntsman53 said:
Kevin, Who said Gold Bar??!! It is a stirrer for stirring stews, soups and whatever else one cooks up, just little fancier than most. The problem is, that it can double as an early Proctologist's probe! Oooh...even I cringe at the thought of that. Frank P.S. How you doing mate? I hope all is well with you and wish you and yours a safe and Merry Christmas and a very Happy New Year! Cheers!!!

Hey Frank,

Merry Christmas etc etc, I hope you and the family have a great time and enjoy the New Year. It would appear that the BVI. Creature has done it again ( I hope) the chances of you and I retiring on his finds are increasing ( especially as we don't give the miserable git too much hassle)

What's the latest on the boulders? Any luck or is it next year? Also hopefully BVI will get an idea of the age of his " maybe" bar and let us all know