Ginger beer bottle question ?????

[kieser sousa/rip]

Hi all. I found this bottle last summer and at first I did not notice any markings but after looking closer I see something.So I was wondering if anyone has seen this mark ? ..and if so who ?what? were? and when was this bottle made? Thanks !

 

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[Harry Pristis]

Hi all. I found this bottle last summer and at first I did not notice any markings but after looking closer I see something.So I was wondering if anyone has seen this mark ? ..and if so who ?what? were? and when was this bottle made? Thanks !

I think it says GROSVENOR/GLASGOW.

Hundreds of thousands of these bottle were exported to the USA filled with ALE, not ginger beer. "Ginger beer" is a collector nickname which probably started (in the NEast) because these ale bottles had a secondary use in bottling home-made ginger beer.

Variants of this bottle were made from 1869 to 1923 in Glasgow, Scotland.

 

[kieser sousa/rip]

Thanks Harry !

 

[mile-ender]

Sorry Harry, I think your mistaken on this one, - Ginger beer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I know up north here in Quebec there are some serious collectors and the stoneware ginger beers can fetch a pretty penny. Check out some auctions for Canadian gingers here - Maple Leaf Auctions | Past Auctions
Here's another good read about ginger beer history and production - Let's Make Ginger Beer
Depending on the region the ginger beer producers may have had different suppliers for there bottles as well, I have one ginger I dug and was informed there were three bottle producers, with each one having a different value. Like with acls, sodas wines or stoneware jugs, each form of collection has a number of different levels and a lot to learn about. It's what makes forums like this important; everybody has something to share and we all learn a little more.

 

[Harry Pristis]

Sorry Harry, I think your mistaken on this one, - Ginger beer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I know up north here in Quebec there are some serious collectors and the stoneware ginger beers can fetch a pretty penny. Check out some auctions for Canadian gingers here - Maple Leaf Auctions | Past Auctions
Here's another good read about ginger beer history and production - Let's Make Ginger Beer
Depending on the region the ginger beer producers may have had different suppliers for there bottles as well, I have one ginger I dug and was informed there were three bottle producers, with each one having a different value. Like with acls, sodas wines or stoneware jugs, each form of collection has a number of different levels and a lot to learn about. It's what makes forums like this important; everybody has something to share and we all learn a little more.

What is it exactly about which I am wrong, 'mile-ender'?

I see nothing useful in the Wikipedia article. Canadian ginger beers, like the British bottles, are only worth collecting if they have an underglaze stencil label. Ale bottles have no such underglaze label.

You can call these stoneware bottles anything that you wish, but archeologists call them ale bottles. They have been found with ale labels (paper) from the William Younger Company of Edinburgh, Scotland (now known as Scottish Brewers, Ltd.) which has been brewing and exporting ale since 1749. Enormous numbers of them were imported into the U.S.A.

There is a four-page account of these ale bottles with color images in BOTTLES ON THE WESTERN FRONTIER, Rex L. Wilson, University of Arizona Press (1981). Wilson was the senior archeologist with the U.S.A. Department of the Interior. He managed all the archeological excavations at the old western fort sites in the U.S.A.

In THE BERTRAND BOTTLES: A STUDY OF 19TH CENTURY GLASS AND CERAMIC CONTAINERS, Ronald R. Switzer, National Park Service, Department of the Interior (1974), there are six pages with photographs of the stoneware ale bottles. They are some of the 6,000 bottles recovered from the steamer Bertrand which sank in the Missouri River on April 1, 1865.

 

[mile-ender]

Look, don't go getting all up in my face.
Your wrong in your response to his question.
Yes, his bottle is from Scotland and more than likely contained an ale; but to leave it at that is a disservice.
"Ginger beer" is a collector nickname which probably started (in the NEast) because these ale bottles had a secondary use in bottling home-made ginger beer.
Pure crap. Though you may be correct in the fact that thousands were imported that contained ale, you fail to acknowledge certain things; the following is from the second link I included -
By 1790 England was exporting ginger beer to Canada and the United States, which was made possible by the advent of pressure-sealed stoneware jars. It wasn't long however, before local breweries began to appear in both North American countries. About this, Donald Yates from the Federation of Historical Bottle Collectors, tells us ...

"Early Ginger Beer was produced locally in small quantities for use by taverns or families. Its popularity blossomed after the Civil War, when it was produced commercially in larger quantities, and transported to new markets. The most popular region for ginger beer was Western New York State, especially Syracuse and Buffalo. Ginger Beer breweries flourished along the Erie Canal due to convenient transportation and availability of raw materials for the stoneware and ginger beer. Ginger beer was brewed in smaller quantities in twenty other states." [SUP][2][/SUP]

Puff your chest all you want - I'm done.

To Kieser sousa - It's a great little stoneware you've got, and you live in a great region for ginger beers, good hunting!

 

[epackage]

Sorry Harry, I think your mistaken on this one, - Ginger beer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I know up north here in Quebec there are some serious collectors and the stoneware ginger beers can fetch a pretty penny. Check out some auctions for Canadian gingers here - Maple Leaf Auctions | Past Auctions
Here's another good read about ginger beer history and production - Let's Make Ginger Beer
Depending on the region the ginger beer producers may have had different suppliers for there bottles as well, I have one ginger I dug and was informed there were three bottle producers, with each one having a different value. Like with acls, sodas wines or stoneware jugs, each form of collection has a number of different levels and a lot to learn about. It's what makes forums like this important; everybody has something to share and we all learn a little more.

Your way off on this one with your reply, these are as common as Bromo's in most places and worthless to collectors, they do sell to some as decorations but that's about it... Unless stenciled as Harry told you...

 

[epackage]

(Post Deleted) Keep your discussion civil

 

[kieser sousa/rip]

I guess I should have waited until you made this post and acted like a complete moron....LOL

I guess there's no helping some people Harry, good luck with this guy....SMFH

Who are you calling a moron ? No helping who ? ...Thanks for the info Harry and mile-ender.

 

[epackage]

Who are you calling a moron ? No helping who ? ...Thanks for the info Harry and mile-ender.

Mile Ender, why would you be confused

 

[Harry Pristis]

It unsettles some of us when a longstanding belief - even an inconsequential belief - is challenged. . . "If this belief of mine is wrong, what other of my beliefs are misperceptions!!"

SIDE NOTE: In Guyana ( a former British colony in S.A.), these ale bottles are called "flambeaux" by the populace. A flambeau ('flam.BO') is a flaming torch, from the French flambe. It was explained to me that these heavy, stable bottles were filled with lamp oil and an improvised wick to make a lamp. (Guyana is still not fully electrified.)

 

[Tnmountains]

Have a good debate but keep it civil.

 

[sodetraveler]

Have a good debate but keep it civil.

This thread reminds me of the debate we had about whiskey flasks awhile back.

Many folks like myself are primarily diggers who have learned to "identify" bottles by asking other diggers. If some total stranger walks up to us at a dig site and says authoritatively that "this is a ginger beer", we just take it for granted that he knows that for a fact! LOL

Interestingly enough, the diggers in Hawaii also call these ginger beers and I never gave it much thought until I started doing my own research. Based on the comments here and other related information, I imagine that these stone ware bottles were dirt cheap (cheaper than glass?) and ended up being purchased for a variety of products.

During the time I have been on this site I have come to respect the extensive knowledge of Harry Pristis and epackage. You guys know your bottles!

I imagine that it bothers you when people show up and say you are wrong - especially when you have solid data supporting your position.

When it come to common mass produced types of old bottles though, it is quite possible that everyone can be right.

I'm going to keep calling these ginger beers simply because it allows me to communicate clearly with my bottlin partners (i.e. Hey, it looks like another ginger beer!), but I'm also going to explain to them that these were probably used for ale.

Of course, in Hawaii, they could have been used for okole hao!

 

[tinpan]

Hi all , Ales and gingers is bit of a grey area when coming to iding them. Spanning nearly 100 years in most locations , Sizes, tops and markers there are 100's of variants . As mentioned common names are given to them but else where by be referred as something different. Are you so sure that non-printed ale or ginger bottles are worthless i thought that depended which pottery they came from.

tinpan one of 4 i have found this year.

 

[Gold Maven]

I found a "ginger root beer" bottle once, and just assumed that was the fore runner of root beer.

 

[Harry Pristis]

. . .
Interestingly enough, the diggers in Hawaii also call these ginger beers
. . .
I imagine that it bothers you when people show up and say you are wrong - especially when you have solid data supporting your position.
. . .
I'm going to keep calling these ginger beers simply because it allows me to communicate clearly with my bottlin partners (i.e. Hey, it looks like another ginger beer!), but I'm also going to explain to them that these were probably used for ale.

It does not surprise me that Hawaii diggers use the term "ginger beers." The term, I'm sure, has deep roots from when these ale bottles were being recycled for producing home-made ginger beer (and root beer, no doubt). The term is collector jargon now, like "wood bottle mold" and "refired pontil scar," appearing in at least one collector-written bottle guide.

I am not bothered to be told I'm wrong; but, it does motivate me to organize my facts (and, occasionally, to admit a misperception). In this case I am comfortable with the facts.

I don't demand that 'mile-ender' accept the facts. In fact, I suggested to him the 'sodetraveler' solution to reconcile the information conflict. I suggested to him that, You can call these stoneware bottles anything that you wish, but archeologists call them ale bottles.

 

[epackage]

They bring about $1-2 in New Jersey when not stenciled, in fact if it weren't for people who thought they 'look cool' or decorators buying them you would have trouble giving them away, those are just the facts. Sorry if I offended anyone...

 

[Harry Pristis]

They bring about $1-2 in New Jersey when not stenciled, in fact if it weren't for people who thought they 'look cool' or decorators buying them you would have trouble giving them away, those are just the facts. Sorry if I offended anyone...

You have been spot-on in your assessment, 'epackage.' There is an old image in circulation on the net of a tavern in a western town that upended these ale bottles and used them as pavers in front of the establishment. I wish I had saved the image.

 

[epackage]

There was a woman trying to sell 6 of them on Craigslist locally Harry and they didn't sell at $10, I sometimes look for stoneware pieces to use as gifts so I was checking them out but decided against them. I now look for bigger jugs and crocks that are 'blanks', I turned this plain 5 gallon jug into a anniversary gift for my mom & dad because my mother loves these kinds of jugs around the house as decoration. This is now a priceless piece as far as my family is concerned....

 

[Harry Pristis]

There was a woman trying to sell 6 of them on Craigslist locally Harry and they didn't sell at $10, I sometimes look for stoneware pieces to use as gifts so I was checking them out but decided against them. I now look for bigger jugs and crocks that are 'blanks', I turned this plain 5 gallon jug into a anniversary gift for my mom & dad because my mother loves these kinds of jugs around the house as decoration. This is now a priceless piece as far as my family is concerned....

I admire your inventiveness, 'epackage' . . . what's the technique? (This might be worthy of a thread of its own.)