GOLD RUSH ALASKA season 2

Goodyguy

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I say the Audubon Society & The Sierra Club
Support the discovery Channel, Because
of some of their Programming Most likley
is about saving the enviroment.
But doubt any of them Watch Gold rush Alaska
unless the Particular Member is into Gold Prospecting.
I Do believe there are a few Members of those societies,
Who only see that some Lame Bug may be
loosing it's nest, and a Tree Got Dozed,
& Now the world will end
because of it :P (Sort of like the Bog Turtle
Paranoia here in Pa) But doubt they Purposly
support the show on an Agenda
 

I THINK GRAYCLOUD HAS A VERY GOOD POINT.
THESE GUYS REPRESENT EVERYTHING THAT GOES AGAINST WHAT WE RECREATIONAL
WEEKEND PROSPECTORS TRY TO DO TO HELP THE ENVIROMENT.

I HOPE THAT THEY DO NOT BURY THE REST OF US WITH THEIR HEAVY EQUIPMENT FOOTPRINT!

THAT'S JUST HOW I SEE IT.
:read2:
PROSPECTORMIKEL
 

PROSPECTORMIKEL, you and GC ...may have a good point....

However, how many recreational miners do you know that mine with dozers and excavators...?? Not many....While they players entered the scene with little or no experience..and are at times referred to as down and out recreational miners...they are certainly mining like very amateur commercial miners mine... but making sooooo many mistakes along the way... some I made myself so many years ago....They finally got smart and drilled... which is something I said they needed to do on the first show last year.. even though they did something right for a change... they stopped short..a few more holes would have given them the width and breath and depth of their pay streak..they would also know where to start and where to stop.....WOOW!! They would have an actual mining plan in place.. what a novel idea.. but that probably doesn't fit into the overall script...

I just returned from a trip to AZ where I tested a property I am interested in.... the placer assays came out to 1.6 ounces of gold and 3.88 ounces of silver per ton of black sand... having to process 13 tons (about 10 yards) to produce 1 ton of black sand.. or about 1 ton a hour on a small scale operation. While it is a small scale operation in as much as only 13 tons per hour is being processed... and we'll use a dozer and excavator....it certainly is not recreational mining. Yet it is small enough to be considered recreational mining.. but is on a commercial scale........You know ...legally just keeping under the radar...The guys on Gold Rush haven't tried to stay under the radar yet....against MSHA, the Fish and Game people or the State of Alaska... we'll see how they fair against the Canadian Government rules and regulations on mining....which is what I suspect will be one of the next "big" challenges to over come for them...


Klondike...
 

call yourself what you want!i guess its your right! but recreational miners dont have ANY rights or protection under the 1866/1872 mining laws. just something to think about before you put it into print for the wacos to use against you!
 

Klondikeike said:
PROSPECTORMIKEL, you and GC ...may have a good point....

I just returned from a trip to AZ where I tested a property I am interested in.... the placer assays came out to 1.6 ounces of gold and 3.88 ounces of silver per ton of black sand... having to process 13 tons (about 10 yards) to produce 1 ton of black sand.. or about 1 ton a hour on a small scale operation. While it is a small scale operation in as much as only 13 tons per hour is being processed... and we'll use a dozer and excavator....
:hello2: Klondikeike I have a mound of hard pann mixed with clay that i want to process on a small scale, could you tell me what equiptment you are useing, tromel size ect. to process a tonne per hour.
 

Hey Russau...

Not sure what you're saying.. but the 1872 General Mining Laws, states ".....all citizens of the United States have the right to explore, locate and extract precious metals...." "......not withstanding any areas withdrawn from exploration....such as National Parks, Monuments and other areas for the public benefit.... "

As a recreational miner you DO have the RIGHT to explore, locate and extract precious metals....in areas not removed from exploration....

Klondike...
 

Hey Hmmm...

Thanks for your question..which seems simple enough but may be complex to answer...especially without seeing the material....

But there are two very important words in your question...."hard pan" and "clay"......

With both problems... a trommel is a good way to go.....especially if it is large enough to handle some larger rocks (6 inch rocks or so) and long enough (up to 20 feet or more) to keep those larger rocks inside the trommel long enough to pound the hard pan to "smithereens"...once in that broken up state, it can washed through a sluice box or jig or centrifuge to capture the small and fine gold...

I once used a 4 ft diameter and 30 ft long trommel to run some difficult material...

And in some rare cases of extremely difficult hard pan, being crushed by a jaw crusher made be in order...

With clay, the key is keeping it in suspension so it won't clog your box or what ever yo are using...

I know this is all general and vague....but again, without seeing the material in question...this is about the best I can do.. maybe someone else might have some different information or suggestions...

Hope I may have been a help to you...


Klondike...
 

trinityau said:
Hey All, I posted this one one of the other forums as general information. If you sit down at the computer and read up about this show you will find out that it is supported by the Audubon Society, The Sierra Club and several other clubs that are trying to put us out of business. If you search a little further you will find that they actually pay most of the billing. My gut feeling is that this show is intended to show Americans what stupid,non thinking , do whatever you have to, unreliable and uneducated miners are doing to the countryside. I really think it is working too. Many people are watching that show and saying, oh look at that diesle spill, look at how they are in the creek, look at how disorganized that camp is, get the point ? These people will do whatever it takes to undermine the mining community. Subliminal messages seem to work...... I for one will not watch or support this show. Entertainment ? At our expense ? Huh,TRINITYAU/RAYMILLS

Trinity, I've tended to see it this way as well. Everything TLC/Discovery Inc has their hands on smells of the greenie weenie nonsense.

I think GRA as intended was to make miners / prospectors, and other people who use public lands look like looters, thieves and conmen.

There is not one program on Discovery or NatGeo that doesn't some how spin in the notion of the man-caused global climate dogma.

On the "Hoffman, Fred, Parker" thing and reality TV, there is little doubt the producers are skewing the drama to keep the joe six pack living in NYC who has never set foot off solid pavement "thinking damned dirty apes!"

I DVR and speed through the drama. Like I do with the Massey boy's show.
What infuriates me, is TLC/Discover, and their minions (karuks, sierra club, WWF,) have been complicit in shutting down dredging in the peoples Republik of Kalifornia, contrary to the 1872 Mining Act. I always thought Federal trumped state. But in the case of the greenies equal protection doesn't apply.
 

nebraskadad said:
trinityau said:
Hey All, I posted this one one of the other forums as general information. If you sit down at the computer and read up about this show you will find out that it is supported by the Audubon Society, The Sierra Club and several other clubs that are trying to put us out of business. If you search a little further you will find that they actually pay most of the billing. My gut feeling is that this show is intended to show Americans what stupid,non thinking , do whatever you have to, unreliable and uneducated miners are doing to the countryside. I really think it is working too. Many people are watching that show and saying, oh look at that diesle spill, look at how they are in the creek, look at how disorganized that camp is, get the point ? These people will do whatever it takes to undermine the mining community. Subliminal messages seem to work...... I for one will not watch or support this show. Entertainment ? At our expense ? Huh,TRINITYAU/RAYMILLS

Trinity, I've tended to see it this way as well. Everything TLC/Discovery Inc has their hands on smells of the greenie weenie nonsense.

I think GRA as intended was to make miners / prospectors, and other people who use public lands look like looters, thieves and conmen.

There is not one program on Discovery or NatGeo that doesn't some how spin in the notion of the man-caused global climate dogma.

On the "Hoffman, Fred, Parker" thing and reality TV, there is little doubt the producers are skewing the drama to keep the joe six pack living in NYC who has never set foot off solid pavement "thinking damned dirty apes!"

I DVR and speed through the drama. Like I do with the Massey boy's show.
What infuriates me, is TLC/Discover, and their minions (karuks, sierra club, WWF,) have been complicit in shutting down dredging in the peoples Republik of Kalifornia, contrary to the 1872 Mining Act. I always thought Federal trumped state. But in the case of the greenies equal protection doesn't apply.

Fed only trumps state when it suites them......I was a Government Trapper in Calif for many years until the voters banned the use of the Leghold trap(rubber jawed to boot)and the Feds bowed down to it essentially deeming us "useless".Oh,yea,we could use em if a coyote bit somebody or was deemed a threat,I refused to.Thats BS,we will use em when it suites your needs.
Its getting very interesting with the Marijuana State/Fed. laws right now
 

Klondikeike said:
Hey Hmmm...

Thanks for your question..which seems simple enough but may be complex to answer...especially without seeing the material....

But there are two very important words in your question...."hard pan" and "clay"......

With both problems... a trommel is a good way to go.....especially if it is large enough to handle some larger rocks (6 inch rocks or so) and long enough (up to 20 feet or more) to keep those larger rocks inside the trommel long enough to pound the hard pan to "smithereens"...once in that broken up state, it can washed through a sluice box or jig or centrifuge to capture the small and fine gold...

I once used a 4 ft diameter and 30 ft long trommel to run some difficult material...

And in some rare cases of extremely difficult hard pan, being crushed by a jaw crusher made be in order...

With clay, the key is keeping it in suspension so it won't clog your box or what ever yo are using...

I know this is all general and vague....but again, without seeing the material in question...this is about the best I can do.. maybe someone else might have some different information or suggestions...

Hope I may have been a help to you...


Klondike...
thanks klondike
 

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Klondikeike said:
Hey Russau...

Not sure what you're saying.. but the 1872 General Mining Laws, states ".....all citizens of the United States have the right to explore, locate and extract precious metals...." "......not withstanding any areas withdrawn from exploration....such as National Parks, Monuments and other areas for the public benefit.... "

As a recreational miner you DO have the RIGHT to explore, locate and extract precious metals....in areas not removed from exploration....

Klondike...

What he's referring to is something called the "prudent man" rule, which is a legal precedent set sometime back. The laws were originally set up to open up the west and were much needed at the time as the rules and laws varied from district to district. There were shootings, claimjumping, misfiled claims, boundary disputes, etc., very very hectic times..... so the mining laws were set up for a logical order that everybody would adhere to file a claim.

One of the precendents is the prudent man rule.

Quote from http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/info/regulations/mining_claims.html

"Holders of mining claims and sites located within lands later withdrawn from mineral entry must prove their right to continue to occupy and use the land for mining purposes. The owner must demonstrate they contain a discovery of a valuable mineral deposit and/or are used and occupied properly under the General Mining Law, as of the date of withdrawal and as of the date of the mineral examination. Mining claims or sites whose discovery or use or occupation cannot be demonstrated on the date of withdrawal or the date of mineral examination have no valid existing rights and will be contested by the Department.

1. The Prudent Man Rule was first defined in Castle v Womble, 19 LD 455 (1894), where the Secretary of the Interior held that: "Where minerals have been found and the evidence is of such a character that a person of ordinary prudence would be justified in the further expenditure of his labor and means, with a reasonable prospect of success, in developing a valuable mine, the requirements of the statute have been met."

2. The Marketability Test was first defined by the Secretary of the Interior in Solicitor's Opinion, 54 ID 294 (1933): "...a mineral locator or applicant, to justify his possession must show by reason of accessibility, bona fides in development, proximity to market, existence of present demand, and other factors, the deposit is of such value that it can be mined, removed, and disposed of at a profit."



So in order for a mining claim to be valid, one of the basic premises is there has to be a deposit of economic value present that a prudent man would expend his time and money into and make a profit.


When the word "recreational" comes into play, it throws the 1872 mining laws right out the window.

Recreational miners are just that. Out for some fun. Nothing wrong with that at all, but you can't have it both ways.

The 1872 mining laws cover prudent men looking to enrich themselves, better the economy, start a business, employ people, etc. in other words expand the economy, expand the country, start new population centers, etc.


If through no fault of your own you get hauled into court for whatever reason.... you will lose your case just by being "recreational", as the 1872 mining laws do not apply to you.


Sure, you can go out and prospect and have fun doing it. But don't expect the mining laws to be some kind of safety net for you if you intend on being strictly recreational. Wouldn't be prudent ;) :icon_thumleft:
 

Perhaps what Klondike was referring to was "casual use" and simply mis spoke when he used the term "recreational" :dontknow:

See pages 22-23: http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/media...N_/energy.Par.28664.File.dat/MiningClaims.pdf

There is no requirement for notifying the BLM of "casual use" activities. Casual use activities are those that cause only negligible disturbance of public lands and resources. For example, activities that do not involve the use of earthmoving equipment or explosives may be considered casual use.

However, if earth moving equipment is going to be used and you are not going to disturb more than 5 acres, You are required to file a NOI and a plan of operations. Plus the BLM requires a reclamation bond or other financial security prior to approving your plan of operations or allowing operations under a notice to proceed. Usually the bond is less than $3,000, depending on your equipment.

Anything over 5 acres of land disturbance is going to be costly!



GG~
 

Sure, it's splitting hairs for normal everyday folk..... but it is important to know. The word "recreational" has crept into mining over the last 30 or 40 years. I make no judgements on people whether they are doing it recreationally or professionally. It's simply food for thought as you go about your mining activities.
 

Klondike here...

Back in the "day"..before modern technology.. a person would go out explore and prospect until they found something or a deposit worth while to work...

They would prospect with their shovel and pan, if there were seeking a placer deposit for instance, which was the case in much of the gold rush time in the west and for years there after.....right up today... We still seek gold initially, often using a shovel and a pan.

Once they found a deposit worth working, they would file a claim, pay the filing fees, stake out the claim corners and post the appropriate notices at the claim and then set up a sluice or long tom and by hand shovel the material into the "tom' and recover their gold by panning the cons.... not much has changed.

Not a whole lot different than what is referred to today as a "RECREATIONAL" miner....which is still protected by the General Mining Laws f 1872... and yes this would be considered CASUAL use...due to the minimal surface disturbance

Most individual miners, back in the day, were limited by what they could move by hand.. just as it is today for a "recreational" miner...

Then along came technology.. the giant water cannon...and hydraulic mining was born...as well as steam powered bucket line dredges and steam shovels.....very rarely used by the individual.. mostly set up by companies...and the individual miner worked for these companies as a professional.... it was his occupation...

The hydraulic mining and other advances in earth moving activities, separated the casual use miner of his day and the professional miner working for a company... both probably professionals of their day.... one being involved in organized miming efforts, while the other an army of one or to men.

While a recreational miner of today can be as much a professional as one who use modern equipment, but chooses to limit his activities to a dry washer fed by hand or a sluice or high banker fed by a shovel.. and the "other" professional miner chooses to use excavators and dozers... both being protected by the same General Mining Laws...neither one being better than the other, except for the amount of material one can move using heavy equipment verses a shovel...

The bottom line is that as a citizen of the US... you have the right to explore, locate and extract valuable minerals in areas open to prospecting and mining. How you do the extraction may or may not cause some concern, depending on you using hand work or heavy equipment methods.

I personally do not distinguish between a professional or a recreational miner as some do...in as much as I consider myself a "commercial" miner...verses a recreational miner...both can be professional and both are equally protected, within and by the same laws.

I do, on rare occasions, refer to myself as a professional miner, once in a while, within the proper context of the conversation...But in my mind, I am a commercial miner...

Klondike....
 

Hey hmmm

You may want to post your question and pic in a new topic in as much as this topic is about GRA... and you may get more answers to your question that way... not trying to tell you what to do..just suggesting ways to get you more input to your question an pictures...

After saying that... from the picture, that does look like some very difficult material to work..almost all clay... One thing about clay.. once dried it is very easy to work with...it may crumble and you may be able to process it with a dry washer or similar device... but when wet... with as much as you have, very difficult...it may stick to everything..even inside a trommel...

I's need to see and handle a sample to really give you good advice... like I said..in a new posting you may get more support from others who'll see you post better....
 

:evil5: The 1872 Mining Laws are codified ,also fortified under the Nixon administration, to protect the rights of a Prospector and a Miner and not a single word of recreational are contained within and therefore assumption of additional coverage is ludicris and non-existant as all are completely different.Also proven up under the codified Prudent Man Rule - :read2: read it and learn---tons a au 2 u 2 -John
 

I have been mining in the Klondike for 34 years. I am only about 5 miles from the outfit on Quartz Creek that is in the "Gold Rush" show. I have to admit it is very hard for me to watch the show, but I do since I know most of the regulars in the Klondike and am looking for familiar faces. Fortunately, mine won't be there. I met the producer of the show in the notorious bar called the "Snakepit" in Dawson City (my Friday night hangout) and he asked if he could come up to my place. I told him no as I am a damn enough fool already and don't need them to make me a bigger one!

The most annoying thing to us mining in the Klondike is that they don't show the real structure of the regulations involved in placer mining there. The water and land use license is very technical and requires every aspect of the mining to be regulated all the way to the complete reclamation. This license takes about a year to get. To me, a great deal of what I see on the show is predicable. Their first look for ground in the Klondike involved them looking at Ready Bullion Gulch. I know who mined the gulch in the 1980s and 90s and who he later leased it to. It has been mined out wall-to-wall. But there is always some "thin" ground left near the tops of these gulches. For those of you that read the California Mining Journal, I wrote an article on the fellow mining there and titled the article "Mining in a Green House." It was obvious to me the "Gold Rush" people would fall down on this one because of the year long wait after making out the complicated license. They stated in the show that it took so long because of the so-called gold rush in the Klondike and the backed up paper work to be approved. Not true, this has not yet happened. It is because of the complex bureaucracy.

Every year I have to get special papers at the Canadian border to mine in the Yukon Territory. I carry with me a copy of the regulations for "foreigners," that are issued by the government in Whitehorse, just in case I am talking to a newbie that doesn't know the regulations. For my case, it states that I must own at least 50% of a claim. This means only two foreigners can work on a claim and after that they must hire Canadians. I wonder how the Gold Rush people got around that?

The real gold rush was in the 1980s and 90s. There were about 320 active operations in the Klondike then and only about 80 this year.

I have made a living there and have the rights to an entire valley. I am "grandfathered" there as I came in under the old claim grant rules. They have changed in many ways since the 1970s when I got there. You can no longer build a residence on your claim so only temporary structures are only allowed. I built my cabin there in 1984 so it is grandfathered. My valley contains coarse gold and I have found many nuggets there as big as 2 1/2 ounces. Although I mined with heavy machinery, I used a metal detector to prospect with and found about 60 ounces just doing that. I wrote another article for the California Mining Journal on that subject titled "Prospecting with a Metal Detector."

Because I have been on the right fork of Hunker Creek for 34 years, and clean record there, the mining office and others in town send newbies up to see me if they express and interest in the area. I sit them down on the cabin deck, give them a cup of coffee, and tell them to get in line. Year-after-year it is the same thing, an endless line of good people wanting to go gold mining. Not one in a hundred will make it. This is a complex issue, too much to explain here. But, then again, every so often someone is successful, sometimes spectacularly so.

I met the director of the Gold Rush show in the Snakepit near the end of the season. It was late nigh in the bar so my "speech" to him became more animated. I asked him if he knew what the art of prospecting was. This was often the most important topic by the old-timers in Dawson City.

A little mathematics. They stated that their expenses were $125,000. As I remember they figured they would need only about 80 ounces at $1,600 an ounce to break even. If you check the official government data on Upper Quartz Creek just above Toronto Creek, where they are mining, you will see that the gold there is low quality and averages about 750 fine. This means it is only about 75% gold. As the gold buyers in Dawson City only pay about 95% of the actual gold price, it makes the price even less. The approximate worth of an ounce of Upper Quartz Creek gold at $1,600 and ounce is about $1,100. This means they really need about 115 ounces to break even.

I told the producer that they lost before they started. In the Klondike, although there are the rare cases of ground to support larger outfits, most outfits are called "mom and pop operations" (such as mine). Even on good ground, if you have a partner you will have to have ground that is twice as rich. How many partners do they have on the Gold Rush show? Too many, they lost before they started. Don't forget they are paying 10% of the take to McNiel who they are leasing the ground from. Leasing is the only way they could go and there are some in the Klondike who stake ground and get a water and land use license ahead of time to lease it to some one else.

The only two who are regular Klondikers that I have recognized so far are the very successful Toni Betts who mines way below me on Hunker Creek and the driller for the Gold Show people. The drillers name is Henry. I knew him over thirty years ago when he showed up in the Klondike as a drifter like many who came there in the late 1970s and 80s. Everyone gets a nickname there and his became "Porcupine Henry" because he used to live on eating porcupines. The story behind how he became a respected driller in the Klondike is very interesting and would have made a great segment for the show. He made a sizable fortune in placer mining, and the story behind it is rather spectacular.

Well I could go on and on about this and will try to keep my blood pressure down tonight when I watch the show. To us in the Klondike our biggest concern is the false perception that the general public will get about us. I don't know if you have noticed, but they don't seem to mention that they are in the Yukon Territory of Canada. I think they are trying to let the general public go with the false impression that they are in Alaska. My Canadian friends there won't like this too well.
 

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