goverment shut down, fed parks like the wild west with no supervision

[holepuncher]

No, you don't want to hunt any federal park lands. Ever. I was at Gettysburg a couple years ago doing a car tour, again. Some of the areas are extremely accessible. I sat down on a stone fence next to a gentleman about my age. We struck up a conversation about Devil's Den, the place we were at. I figured he was a tourist. We went over some of the history, and I was quite surprised over his knowledge. A bit later as we were discussing Lee's decision to try to go right through the Yankee lines, I asked if he was a historian, he said no, he was one of many civilian "park watchers". They basically patrol the parks for free. Apparently people get hurt all the time at Devil's Den and they watch it and other places constantly to notify the authorities if they are needed. Heck, it even makes the newspapers when squirrels dig up nuts. People go into frenzies about others (including squirrels) digging in the parks. There are plenty of places to dig OUTSIDE the forbidden zones. Never go there. Any park, anywhere.

Funny how people want things to stay in the ground and rot then have in the open for people to enjoy.

 

[holepuncher]

Meh.

MDing Gettysburg would be like fishing the hatchery. You will catch fish, but it just ain't fishing.

Which you don't want to fish in a hatchery because they put chemicals in the water to keep fungus from growing,Not sure you want to ingest that.

 

[against the wind]

I know you can't metal detect in a National Park. Never have, never will. Sooooo,, I don't miss it.

 

[Escape]

Can't stand a bad liar. In years past we had great liars, not like today. In the past they would at least make an attempt to fool you. Not anymore. They don't even try to conceal the fact that it's a lie. I guess lies have there place because the truth is hard to consume. Can I get a wetness!

 

[EdHartzel]

The last shut down took place in Oct and happened the same week I was going on my 5 day solo backpack bowhunt on Federal Wilderness in Western PA. I had planned a year for this trip. Showed up to an empty parkinglot, and a piece of yellow caution tape between two trees at the trail head. -Didn’t get a deer, but it was the best solo hike I ever took. Didn’t see another person for 5 days!

 

[Icewing]

Funny how people want things to stay in the ground and rot then have in the open for people to enjoy.

It's not that anyone wants the stuff to stay in the ground and rot, it's a matter of leaving some stuff in place so that we might learn something as new technology is developed.

It's one thing for us to rescue and preserve relics before developers destroy sites that will be lost forever, but protecting archeological sites and National Parks is important because it give future generations a place to learn how to do things in a scientific way. Once the stuff is removed from the ground and put in boxes what can be learned may be destroyed in the process. Sometimes the context is just as important as the artifact itself.

 

[b3y0nd3r]

It's not that anyone wants the stuff to stay in the ground and rot, it's a matter of leaving some stuff in place so that we might learn something as new technology is developed.

It's one thing for us to rescue and preserve relics before developers destroy sites that will be lost forever, but protecting archeological sites and National Parks is important because it give future generations a place to learn how to do things in a scientific way. Once the stuff is removed from the ground and put in boxes what can be learned may be destroyed in the process. Sometimes the context is just as important as the artifact itself.

With that line of thinking, then a nation wide ban on metal detecting should be in place as there will be nothing left for future detectorists. Who BTW, will be too busy with thier phones or other future device to even notice. Also, all land development should stop right now as well as 1000's of artifacts are lost each day due to construction.

In other words, I call BS on leaving them in the ground. No reason to let them further deteriorate.

 

[Icewing]

With that line of thinking, then a nation wide ban on metal detecting should be in place as there will be nothing left for future detectorists. Who BTW, will be too busy with thier phones or other future device to even notice. Also, all land development should stop right now as well as 1000's of artifacts are lost each day due to construction.

In other words, I call BS on leaving them in the ground. No reason to let them further deteriorate.

Like I said sometimes the context is what's important, just as is reading comprehension skills. I was just talking about why you can't rush into the National Parks and just start digging up whatever you want, and why archeologist don't dig every scrap they can as fast as they can. Nobody is saying you can't or shouldn't get what you can while you can on private property.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... I call BS on leaving them in the ground. No reason to let them further deteriorate.

Really ? Ok, I'll be the devil's advocate and come to Ice-wing's defense: How do you KNOW that no archaeologist, in the future, MIGHT NOT go dig up that V nickel or barber dime you just "ripped from context" in the middle of the woods ?? You never know if some archie, 1000 or 2000 yrs. from now *might not* dig an archie pit in that *exact* spot.

And if so, then you (evil b3y0nd3r) has then robbed future generations from "learning about their past".

How could you be so evil ? And lest you think that's ridiculous: Consider the pyramids of Egypt: We can all agree that's 'ground zero' of sensitive monuments that, of course, you shouldn't be allowed to "poke around" at, right ? But consider that downstream or upstream, more than a mile away, that they dig at "worker-bee" villages and learn a lot about how the common-man laborers lived. A lot of history is learned by digging at places that you might consider "innocuous" and "will rot forever".

So as you can see from the example of Egypt: You simply never know ! Thus, I know you are racked with guilt now. So wrap up all your ill-gotten gain, and mail it to me. I will absolve your conscience of all guilt. Thankyou.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... get what you can while you can on private property.

Ok, So let me understand this correctly : Are you in favor of limiting detecting on all public land ? Or just NPS ?

 

[N/A]

Really ? Ok, I'll be the devil's advocate and come to Ice-wing's defense: How do you KNOW that no archaeologist, in the future, MIGHT NOT go dig up that V nickel or barber dime you just "ripped from context" in the middle of the woods ?? You never know if some archie, 1000 or 2000 yrs. from now *might not* dig an archie pit in that *exact* spot.

And if so, then you (evil b3y0nd3r) has then robbed future generations from "learning about their past".

How could you be so evil ? And lest you think that's ridiculous: Consider the pyramids of Egypt: We can all agree that's 'ground zero' of sensitive monuments that, of course, you shouldn't be allowed to "poke around" at, right ? But consider that downstream or upstream, more than a mile away, that they dig at "worker-bee" villages and learn a lot about how the common-man laborers lived. A lot of history is learned by digging at places that you might consider "innocuous" and "will rot forever".

So as you can see from the example of Egypt: You simply never know ! Thus, I know you are racked with guilt now. So wrap up all your ill-gotten gain, and mail it to me. I will absolve your conscience of all guilt. Thankyou.

How have any finds in Egypt helped anyone in the world? Granted its cool, interesting and intriguing but not one find has ever done anything to help humanity

 

[nomad 11]

FYI, to avoid posts being deleted remember to keep all politics out of post replies.

theres that dirty,nasty P word again

 

[Tom_in_CA]

How have any finds in Egypt helped anyone in the world? Granted its cool, interesting and intriguing but not one find has ever don't anything to help humanity

I am reporting you to a bunch of Purist archies for saying this. But ... if you send me $100 right now (I accept paypal), I can be persuaded to keep quiet. Ok ?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... Didn’t see another person for 5 days!

AAaaaahhhh, but you only *THINK* there was no one around for those 5 days. Truth is: There were Navy seal commando archies, hiding behind each tree that you passed, waiting to jump out and arrest you if they saw you with a metal detector. Yup: Jail with Bubba as a cell-mate, fines, confiscate your vehicle, cut off your hands, etc.....

Next time you will look behind those trees, and you'll see what I'm saying.

 

[Icewing]

Ok, So let me understand this correctly : Are you in favor of limiting detecting on all public land ? Or just NPS ?

No sir, in fact I agree that there are some places where the protectionism goes a bit overboard, but I do understand the reasoning behind preserving archeological sites such as battlefields, Indian mounds, etc. Unfortunately there are greedy and desperate treasure hunters who have caused the laws to become as strict as they are today when it comes to National and State Parks.

Even the Archie's I know admit the laws are too strict when it comes to metal detecting out in the woods where there once was a homestead 100+ years ago and they have even tried (and failed) to get some of the laws relaxed. It's the elected officials who make the laws who are the extremists.

I encourage people to go visit their local archeologist and find out for themselves. You'll find that if they were the great lobbyists treasure hunters seem to think they are, they would have better funding.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... they have even tried (and failed) to get some of the laws relaxed. It's the elected officials who make the laws who are the extremists....

Put yourself in the shoes of any park bureaucrats, faced with such a proposal: Even though it may be VERY TRUE that a "homestead/cellar hole" out in the woods, or a buffalo nickel "in the middle of nowhere ISN'T HARMING ANYONE (nor will anyone EVER dig an archie pit there), yet : Put yourself in their shoes :

The moment that anyone ever went to try to "split hairs" on what is sensitive historical monument (which we can all agree, should be protected), versus "innocuous", is the moment all h*ck breaks loose. I mean, do you really think they could sit around developing imaginary boundaries as to what's "sensitive" vs what's not ? Let's be honest: We md'rs would be forever debating semantics and pushing the envelope (to get as close to history as possible).

So rather than split hairs on what's innocuous vs what's not, it's much easier for them to say "no" to all.

Now as to whether or not anyone ACTUALLY CARED or enforces, is a different matter.

 

[jeff of pa]

Essential vs Non-essential is a designation - and an artificial one at that, not a definition. You might be very surprised by who is so designated. It is likely that many people would disagree with the designations for a variety of reasons.

I Would definitely Disagree with the Essential designation of Some.

I'm sure if I Had a full list of who Is still getting Paid,
I'm sure I Could at least cut a 3rd. of them off yet.
and sleep comfortably.

Unfortunately I Would have to get Political to name
some & Why.

 

[Tnmountains]

Dig it all on private property and go full pirate on it with permission. National parks and battlefields are off limits for a reason and I agree with them being protected. I have seen sites look like bombing ranges until they came under Federal protection.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Dig it all on private property and go full pirate on it with permission. National parks and battlefields are off limits for a reason and I agree with them being protected. I have seen sites look like bombing ranges until they came under Federal protection.

Totally agree, last thing I want to see is a bunch of people digging holes all over our National Parks and Battlefields. I went into Custer National Battle field one morning and there were hundreds of holes all over last stand hill from night hawkers.

 

[Johnnybravo300]

Most reservoirs around America were knowingly covering up and flooding thousands of ancient Indian sites when they were built. The archies were fighting for time to study these but lost the fight.
It's one of the main reasons they cant tie timelines together in early America. What wasnt looted or ransacked earlier in the 1900's has been finished off now in the name of progress.
Does anyone still believe it's about preservation? Haha