Had a great week, but todays find was amazing!, And we left it there..... UPDATE... thanx for the heads up peeps!Checkd.. marker div 3 towns

[41Digger]

Revisited old three sites, and oe new one that had given up some pretty cool relics, and was rewarded with 8 coppers, five in just two hours of hunting! But today met up Ross Suto... Hope I spelled your last name right... lol. We met up and hiked to a very old field loaded with targets.... but nothing crazy at all until we found this! date on the side 1797. Anyone know about the W 45 O? it was falling over and was being swallowed by mother nature... we propped it back up, and spruced it up a bit, there were orange ties in the saplings around it... we figure the historical society had been there at some point, and detectorist as well, still how cool is that? update thanx to members here I can now say iot is definitely a marke

 

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[Coinstar magnet]

Revisited old three sites, and oe new one that had given up some pretty cool relics, and was rewarded with 8 coppers, five in just two hours of hunting! But today met up Ross Suto... Hope I spelled your last name right... lol. We met up and hiked to a very old field loaded with targets.... but nothing crazy at all until we found this! date on the side 1797. Anyone know about the W 45 O? it was falling over and was being swallowed by mother nature... we propped it back up, and spruced it up a bit, there were orange ties in the saplings around it... we figure the historical society had been there at some point, and detectorist as well, still how cool is that? View attachment 2145682 View attachment 2145683 View attachment 2145684 View attachment 2145685 View attachment 2145686 View attachment 2145687

That is an interesting find...my first thought was some kind of longitude, latitude reading.or a property marker?...sure I am incorrect...

 

[BennyV]

Marker I think

 

[41Digger]

That is an interesting find...my first thought was some kind of longitude, latitude reading.or a property marker?...sure I am incorrect...

I am sure it is a grave stone. it oits in the iddle f about an4 acre field

Marker I think

Hmmm... I will have to check... but I do know this much it sits in the middle of an isolated field. one square walled in wit no other stacked stone in site

 

[ARC]

The one almost speaks to me as a head stone.
Very neat none the less.

 

[Coinstar magnet]

I am sure it is a grave stone. it oits in the iddle f about an4 acre field

Hmmm... I will have to check... but I do know this much it sits in the middle of an isolated field. one square walled in wit no other stacked stone in site

That sounds more plausible...

 

[BennyV]

I think you are correct. Maybe died 1797. Age 45. W for woman or maybe initials. Do you know the history of the area or the names of the first settlers?

 

[41Digger]

I think you are correct. Maybe died 1797. Age 45. W for woman or maybe initials. Do you know the history of the area or the names of the first settlers?

I got the map out and it is a marker .... it sits where three towns meet

 

[Clay Diggins]

It's a survey monument. It's written in metes and bounds format, W 45 0 is 320 degrees on your compass. The other number is the distance. 1797 is 2.7 rods distance. I see other numbers too?

Line up on the top of the monument and sight 320 degrees and you will be aimed at the next corner monument. Rinse and repeat to trace the whole survey.

It's illegal in every state to move or deface a survey monument. Please observe but leave in place.

 

[41Digger]

It's a survey monument. It's written in metes and bounds format, W 45 0 is 320 degrees on your compass. The other number is the distance. 1797 is 2.7 rods distance. I see other numbers too?

Line up on the top of the monument and sight 320 degrees and you will be aimed at the next corner monument. Rinse and repeat to trace the whole survey.

It's illegal in every state to move or deface a survey monument. Please observe but leave in place.

IT IS A SURVEY MARKER, BUT I FIRMLY BELIEVE 1797 IS THE DATE... IT IS ON THE SIDE OF THE STONE BY ITSELF. IF IT REFERRED TO IT AS 2.7 RODS THAT IS NOT VERY FAR AND WOULD BE INSIDE THE PENNED IN FIELD WE WERE IN, AND WE SAW NONE. THIS PARTICULAR MARKER IS VERY UNIQUE AS IT IS THE EXACT MEETING POINT OF THREE TOWN BOUNDARIES. AND WE DID MOVE SOMEWHAT, BUT ONLY BACK TO IT'S EXACT ORIGINAL POSITION AS IT WAS FALLING OVER....

 

[Clay Diggins]

IT IS A SURVEY MARKER, BUT I FIRMLY BELIEVE 1797 IS THE DATE... IT IS ON THE SIDE OF THE STONE BY ITSELF. IF IT REFERRED TO IT AS 2.7 RODS THAT IS NOT VERY FAR AND WOULD BE INSIDE THE PENNED IN FIELD WE WERE IN, AND WE SAW NONE. THIS PARTICULAR MARKER IS VERY UNIQUE AS IT IS THE EXACT MEETING POINT OF THREE TOWN BOUNDARIES. AND WE DID MOVE SOMEWHAT, BUT ONLY BACK TO IT'S EXACT ORIGINAL POSITION AS IT WAS FALLING OVER....

Sorry you are correct I misstated. 1797 feet would be 2.7 chains or 109 rods.

It could be the date. You would need to look up the survey to confirm it's a date. Metes and bounds surveys, like this one, will state direction and distance on the monument. You have the direction W 45 0 but there should be a distance somewhere on the monument. Dates are optional, and often included, but the distance ia a requirement. I'd look it over closer for another number or check the survey plat to see if the distance is 1797 feet or something else.

 

[41Digger]

Sorry you are correct I misstated. 1797 feet would be 2.7 chains or 109 rods.

It could be the date. You would need to look up the survey to confirm it's a date. Metes and bounds surveys, like this one, will state direction and distance on the monument. You have the direction W 45 0 but there should be a distance somewhere on the monument. Dates are optional, and often included, but the distance ia a requirement. I'd look it over closer for another number or check the survey plat to see if the distance is 1797 feet or something else.

Represents the exact spot where three towns intersect. This is definitely part of the original survey required by the state in the 1790's

By 1829 Carleton’s maps were obsolete, due both to its intrinsic failings the original surveys and to the rapid pace of development in the State. So in 1829 and 1830 the legislature passed enabling legislation and commissioned Simeon Borden to produce an entirely new state map. This was to be essentially a three-stage process: First, as in the 1790s each town was to survey its territory and submit a map to the State (Incidentally, nearly 100 of these towns were published, such as these maps of Amherst, Hingham and Leominster. Second, a statewide “geodetic” survey would be conducted, in which superb instruments and rigorous astronomical observations were used to establish a baseline from which could be developed a network of some 500 triangulated reference points across the state. Finally, the local data in the individual town maps would be reconciled and merged with the trigonometric survey to produce the state map. This was to be the first map of any state to be based on triangulation from geodetically-controlled points, though it reflected advanced map-making practices long in use in Europe.
After the Revolution Massachusetts was in dire need of an up-to-date state map. This was necessary for stimulating commerce and infrastructure development, delineating public lands available for sale, and allocating taxes. With a weak Federal government unable to provide support and itself short on cash, the State had to come up with creative models for funding these labor intensive projects.

In 1794 the legislature enacted a clever map-making project designed to shift the costs away from the State. Each town was required to conduct a survey at its own cost and submit a town plan to the Secretary of State. These were to be at a scale of 1 inch to 200 rods (1:39,600); indicate the length and bearing of town boundaries; delineate roads and waterways; and show the locations of meeting houses, schools, mills, mines &c. Under state auspices, the surveys would then be compiled and where necessary reconciled to produce maps of Massachusetts as well as Maine, which remained part of the state until 1820.

These surveys were conducted by the centuries-old metes-and-boundsmethod. Using a compass for taking bearings and a rod (16.5 feet) or chain (66 feet) for measuring distances, surveyors worked their way in a continuous path along a town’s boundaries to be measured, recording bearings and distances between objects designated as boundary markers. The hundreds of resulting maps were of varying quality and ridden with inaccuracies, and only with much difficulty were they compiled by Boston mapmaker Osgood Carleton into An Accurate Map of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and Map of the District of Maine (1797). Though poorly engraved and difficult to read, these were an informational tour de force, as they depict the state at a level of detail hitherto unimagined scale of 1:253,440 (Mass.) and 1:400,000 (Maine).

 

[Clay Diggins]

Represents the exact spot where three towns intersect. This is definitely part of the original survey required by the state in the 1790's

By 1829 Carleton’s maps were obsolete, due both to its intrinsic failings the original surveys and to the rapid pace of development in the State. So in 1829 and 1830 the legislature passed enabling legislation and commissioned Simeon Borden to produce an entirely new state map. This was to be essentially a three-stage process: First, as in the 1790s each town was to survey its territory and submit a map to the State (Incidentally, nearly 100 of these towns were published, such as these maps of Amherst, Hingham and Leominster. Second, a statewide “geodetic” survey would be conducted, in which superb instruments and rigorous astronomical observations were used to establish a baseline from which could be developed a network of some 500 triangulated reference points across the state. Finally, the local data in the individual town maps would be reconciled and merged with the trigonometric survey to produce the state map. This was to be the first map of any state to be based on triangulation from geodetically-controlled points, though it reflected advanced map-making practices long in use in Europe.
After the Revolution Massachusetts was in dire need of an up-to-date state map. This was necessary for stimulating commerce and infrastructure development, delineating public lands available for sale, and allocating taxes. With a weak Federal government unable to provide support and itself short on cash, the State had to come up with creative models for funding these labor intensive projects.

In 1794 the legislature enacted a clever map-making project designed to shift the costs away from the State. Each town was required to conduct a survey at its own cost and submit a town plan to the Secretary of State. These were to be at a scale of 1 inch to 200 rods (1:39,600); indicate the length and bearing of town boundaries; delineate roads and waterways; and show the locations of meeting houses, schools, mills, mines &c. Under state auspices, the surveys would then be compiled and where necessary reconciled to produce maps of Massachusetts as well as Maine, which remained part of the state until 1820.

These surveys were conducted by the centuries-old metes-and-boundsmethod. Using a compass for taking bearings and a rod (16.5 feet) or chain (66 feet) for measuring distances, surveyors worked their way in a continuous path along a town’s boundaries to be measured, recording bearings and distances between objects designated as boundary markers. The hundreds of resulting maps were of varying quality and ridden with inaccuracies, and only with much difficulty were they compiled by Boston mapmaker Osgood Carleton into An Accurate Map of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and Map of the District of Maine (1797). Though poorly engraved and difficult to read, these were an informational tour de force, as they depict the state at a level of detail hitherto unimagined scale of 1:253,440 (Mass.) and 1:400,000 (Maine).

Seems like if the map were produced in 1797 this particular survey monument was way too late to be included if the number on the monument is indeed the date of the survey.

I would check with your city to see if they have the 1797 survey in their archives.

 

[41Digger]

Seems like if the map were produced in 1797 this particular survey monument was way too late to be included if the number on the monument is indeed the date of the survey.

I would check with your city to see if they have the 1797 survey in their archives.

READ THE ATTACHED INFO.... IT SPELLS IT OUT QUITE CLEARLY

 

[41Digger]

READ THE ATTACHED INFO.... IT SPELLS IT OUT QUITE CLEARLY

iF YOU HAD READ YOU WOULD KNOW THIS SURVEY WAS NOT ORDERED LOCALLY

 

[Clay Diggins]

READ THE ATTACHED INFO.... IT SPELLS IT OUT QUITE CLEARLY

I read the attached info. The survey was ordered in 1794 and the map was produced in 1795. No way a survey completed in 1797 could end up on a map published in 1795. Not in 1797 and not today. Time only flows forward - no do overs.

Here is a link to the map completed in 1795.

An accurate map of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts exclusive of the district of Maine - American Revolutionary Geographies Online

www.argomaps.org

An accurate map of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts exclusive of the district of Maine : compiled pursuant to an Act of the General Court from actual surveys of the several towns, etc. taken by their order exhibiting the boundary lines of the Commonwealth, the counties and towns, the principal roads, rivers, mountains, mines, islands, rocks, shoals, channels, lakes, ponds, falls, mills, manufactures & public buildings, with the true latitudes & longitudes, &c​

I don't doubt that the monument marks the corner of a township. 1797 may be the date the monument was surveyed and placed. That would be odd since the map of the survey was created two years prior. Maybe look into the next monument at W 45 0 (320 degrees)to see if the distance between the two is ~ 1797 feet. If so your mystery would be solved.

MAYBE IF I WRITE IN ALL CAPS MY POSTS WOULD BE MORE UNDERSTANDABLE?

 

[41Digger]

I read the attached info. The survey was ordered in 1794 and the map was produced in 1795. No way a survey completed in 1797 could end up on a map published in 1795. Not in 1797 and not today. Time only flows forward - no do overs.

Here is a link to the map completed in 1795.

An accurate map of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts exclusive of the district of Maine - American Revolutionary Geographies Online

www.argomaps.org

An accurate map of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts exclusive of the district of Maine : compiled pursuant to an Act of the General Court from actual surveys of the several towns, etc. taken by their order exhibiting the boundary lines of the Commonwealth, the counties and towns, the principal roads, rivers, mountains, mines, islands, rocks, shoals, channels, lakes, ponds, falls, mills, manufactures & public buildings, with the true latitudes & longitudes, &c​

I don't doubt that the monument marks the corner of a township. 1797 may be the date the monument was surveyed and placed. That would be odd since the map of the survey was created two years prior. Maybe look into the next monument at W 45 0 (320 degrees)to see if the distance between the two is ~ 1797 feet. If so your mystery would be solved.

MAYBE IF I WRITE IN ALL CAPS MY POSTS WOULD BE MORE UNDERSTANDABLE?

Boston mapmaker Osgood Carleton into An Accurate Map of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and Map of the District of Maine (1797). Though poorly engraved and difficult to read, these were an informational tour de force, as they depict the state at a level of detail hitherto unimagined scale of 1:253,440 (Mass.) and 1:400,000 (Maine).

 

[Clay Diggins]

Boston mapmaker Osgood Carleton into An Accurate Map of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and Map of the District of Maine (1797). Though poorly engraved and difficult to read, these were an informational tour de force, as they depict the state at a level of detail hitherto unimagined scale of 1:253,440 (Mass.) and 1:400,000 (Maine).

And yet, unlike the map retailer you quote, the Boston library which has the map in it's collection and ARGO both put the map publication date as 1795.

ARGO -American Revolutionary Geographies Online is a new project led by the Leventhal Map and Education Center at the Boston Public Library and the George Washington Presidential Library at Mount Vernon.

Read the links I provided or read the tagline at the bottom of the map that states 1795 to confirm for yourself the publication date.

iF YOU HAD READ YOU WOULD KNOW THIS SURVEY WAS NOT ORDERED LOCALLY

According to the court order each survey was to be conducted locally. Each town was required to conduct a survey at its own cost and submit a town plan to the Secretary of State. You can read the order yourself here:

Acts and resolves passed by the General Court : Massachusetts : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Imprint varies

archive.org

As you can see in the archive link the order specifically states that the surveys must be completed and submitted "on or before the first day of June 1795".

If the 1797 on the monument represents the survey date it is impossible that this monument was the one represented on the 1795 map. Simple math.

 

[41Digger]

And yet, unlike the map retailer you quote, the Boston library which has the map in it's collection and ARGO both put the map publication date as 1795.

ARGO -American Revolutionary Geographies Online is a new project led by the Leventhal Map and Education Center at the Boston Public Library and the George Washington Presidential Library at Mount Vernon.

Read the links I provided or read the tagline at the bottom of the map that states 1795 to confirm for yourself the publication date.


According to the court order each survey was to be conducted locally. Each town was required to conduct a survey at its own cost and submit a town plan to the Secretary of State. You can read the order yourself here:

Acts and resolves passed by the General Court : Massachusetts : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Imprint varies

archive.org

As you can see in the archive link the order specifically states that the surveys must be completed and submitted "on or before the first day of June 1795".

If the 1797 on the monument represents the survey date it is impossible that this monument was the one represented on the 1795 map. Simple math.

Osgood Carleton into An Accurate Map of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and Map of the District of Maine (1797).

 

[41Digger]

And yet, unlike the map retailer you quote, the Boston library which has the map in it's collection and ARGO both put the map publication date as 1795.

ARGO -American Revolutionary Geographies Online is a new project led by the Leventhal Map and Education Center at the Boston Public Library and the George Washington Presidential Library at Mount Vernon.

Read the links I provided or read the tagline at the bottom of the map that states 1795 to confirm for yourself the publication date.


According to the court order each survey was to be conducted locally. Each town was required to conduct a survey at its own cost and submit a town plan to the Secretary of State. You can read the order yourself here:

Acts and resolves passed by the General Court : Massachusetts : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Imprint varies

archive.org

As you can see in the archive link the order specifically states that the surveys must be completed and submitted "on or before the first day of June 1795".

If the 1797 on the monument represents the survey date it is impossible that this monument was the one represented on the 1795 map. Simple math.

WELL MAYBE THEY ARE TWO DIFFWERENT MAPS... OR ONE DATE IS NOT ACCURATE... SEEING AS THIS MARKER BEARS THE DATE 1797, AND ITS SITS PERECISELY WHERE ONE OF THOSE ORIGINAL 500 MARKERS SIT... I DONT FOR THE LIFE OF ME UNDERSTAND YOUR DENIAL? EVEN IF IT WAS 1795 DOESNT MEAN THEY DIDNT COME BACK TO VERIFY AND MARK... IT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT 1797 CHAINS.. THAT LANDS NO WHERE NEAR ANY TOWN BORDER.. IT LANDS IN NOTHINGNESS...