Hardstone Artifact(Bannerstone)

[mogi]

Hey friends - Wanted to post a hardstone out of my collection. Thanks for all the likes and kind comments on my previous posts. Have a blessed day!

 

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[Backwoodsbob]

If you are so adamant about this Bob then please post some papers on the subject. Or are you the only one that sees this nonsense?

Grim, you were getting your papers I've given you plenty of reference material. Do some work for yourselves. Why none of you took my challenge says it all. I'm done trying to help you guys. You have your own little group of people That need to do a little more research. I gave you a first hand information. I am one of the top in this field. I only know of one higher than myself. He is retired. There may be someone in Rome.You drop this ball. Like I said before. This is not new but it has been suppressed information. Good day to you.

God Bless you all because you need it.
Bob

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[Treasure_Hunter]

Hey everyone - I deeply apologize for all of this. I joined the forum to make some new friends and hopefully even meet some and go pick up some rocks. Just the opposite has happened and i feel it is my fault. If you ever have read my correspondence with my posts,it doesn't take long to realize that i am a believer in Our Lord. With that being said i want all of you to know that i have never posted a pic of an artifact that does not have at least 1 paper on it,except for the Mozarkite Birdpoint that i posted today. The best friend that i have gave it to me. Not only would he give me the shirt off his back,but would give me the point in his hand. I have used 3 different authenticators since starting my collection as i need those for insurance purposes and to legitimize value as they will be passed down. I have never sold an artifact in my life and do not plan to. I have showed you guy's pieces that i have personally found only to be discredited. I respect and understand everyone's skepticism of some of them as a lot of them are very high end items. It would do me no good whatsoever to show my Museum Grade as they would meet the same fate. I would never ever post anything on this or any other page that not only i, but my authenticators as well has approved. Once again - I Apologize to people who i have hurt with my posts. I will not post anymore but would like to continue following as i still have hopes of meeting new friends. Be kind to each other and God bless! Mogi

Mogi, you owe NO apologies at all. Don't make the mistake of thinking something that is papered is guaranteed to be genuine, there are a lot of counterfeit COAs and fake artifacts with coa papers.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Grim, you were getting your papers I've given you plenty of reference material. Do some work for yourselves. Why none of you took my challenge says it all. I'm done trying to help you guys. You have your own little group of people That need to do a little more research. I gave you a first hand information. I am one of the top in this field. I only know of one higher than myself. He is retired. There may be someone in Rome.You drop this ball. Like I said before. This is not new but it has been suppressed information. Good day to you.

God Bless you all because you need it.
Bob

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Bob you are not the first to join who claims rocks with no signs of being worked are ancient artifacts as well as portable art/artifacts. I can claim to be the top in the field of something, but unless I can prove it, it means nothing. None of these rocks you have posted other than a couple of points can be proved to be artifacts including your above picture full of rocks ..

 

[1320]

Hey everyone - I deeply apologize for all of this. I joined the forum to make some new friends and hopefully even meet some and go pick up some rocks. Just the opposite has happened and i feel it is my fault. If you ever have read my correspondence with my posts,it doesn't take long to realize that i am a believer in Our Lord. With that being said i want all of you to know that i have never posted a pic of an artifact that does not have at least 1 paper on it,except for the Mozarkite Birdpoint that i posted today. The best friend that i have gave it to me. Not only would he give me the shirt off his back,but would give me the point in his hand. I have used 3 different authenticators since starting my collection as i need those for insurance purposes and to legitimize value as they will be passed down. I have never sold an artifact in my life and do not plan to. I have showed you guy's pieces that i have personally found only to be discredited. I respect and understand everyone's skepticism of some of them as a lot of them are very high end items. It would do me no good whatsoever to show my Museum Grade as they would meet the same fate. I would never ever post anything on this or any other page that not only i, but my authenticators as well has approved. Once again - I Apologize to people who i have hurt with my posts. I will not post anymore but would like to continue following as i still have hopes of meeting new friends. Be kind to each other and God bless! Mogi

Well Sir, it is your fault. A new guy in the neighborhood can't just show up at the play ground and try to take it over. Ease into it my friend and if you want to play, give respect to the members in this forum that have been in this forum for years. It all started down hill when you refused (and still refuse) to show a simple piece of paper. Some of your posts have struck me as "trolling" but until now, I've refrained from commenting on any of them.

Let's shake hands, show the COA's and get over this non-sense, we are grown men and women, we can do this!

 

[mogi]

Well Sir, it is your fault. A new guy in the neighborhood can't just show up at the play ground and try to take it over. Ease into it my friend and if you want to play, give respect to the members in this forum that have been in this forum for years. It all started down hill when you refused (and still refuse) to show a simple piece of paper. Some of your posts have struck me as "trolling" but until now, I've refrained from commenting on any of them.

Let's shake hands, show the COA's and get over this non-sense, we are grown men and women, we can do this!

Thank you sir for your comment. I did however show paperwork and it quickly got discredited.

 

[1320]

Thank you sir for your comment. I did however show paperwork and it quickly got discredited.

You are most welcome. I think I saw partial paperwork. I'm not a COA man but could others tell who the COA's were from by looking at what you shared? Man, you gotta believe that there are some serious experts in this forum. I'm sorry that you feel mistreated but these guys are good.

 

[mogi]

You are most welcome. I think I saw partial paperwork. I'm not a COA man but could others tell who the COA's were from by looking at what you shared? Man, you gotta believe that there are some serious experts in this forum. I'm sorry that you feel mistreated but these guys are good.

Sir - Thank you for your correspondence. The person or persons that authenticate my pieces do it for a living. That is their job. I have never purchased or traded for a piece with my authenticators, so they have no need to fabricate a C.O.A.. It does not benefit them in any way. They get paid regardless. Also, i am 60 years old. I am not the green horn that everyone is thinking. I have put in my time,miles on boots and under the scope. But with that being said, there will always be people that will discount your artifacts even if they saw you dig it out of the ground. Even though i have showed visibly C.O.A.'s i have yet to see anyone other than me do the same. I have showed pieces i have found and once again i do it for the reasons mentioned above and yet they discredit that as well. The only way that it can be approved is if they personally C.O.A. it themselves - Even though that is not what they do for a living. If anyone on this forum is a certified authenticator with credentials, then i would definitely consider their services. Respectfully, Mogi

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Mogi, you more than welcome to post here. There are a lot of people here with a lot of experience. I do know for a fact there are a lot of counterfeit COAs and repro artifacts with COAs so you cant always assume an artifact with a COA is authentic.

I can't post the link to this as it violates our rules but it does explain it with out me having to retype it..

When everybody becomes expert, then there are no experts anymore
John F. Berner EIC
Originally published in the Central States Archaeological Journal, Vol.54, No.4, pg. 186

The subject is COA's (certificates of authenticity) and authenticators. During the past twenty years, the artifact collecting community has seen a plethora of artifact authenticators come and go. A few of the early respected authenticators survived and they will continue to enjoy our respect.

Seventy six persons claimed the title of "Artifact Authenticator" in 2000. What happened? The hobby did not have room for so many, and those with little or no respect, disappeared from the scene.

What is the crux of this problem? To be a respected evaluator of any type of collectible, you must have a deep understanding, good identification of the subject and a wealth of experience from working with, examining the product and lastly, know good from bad!

How does that relate to today? Some previously regional authenticators (those who specialize in a particular area, region or type of artifacts) recently ventured beyond their area of expertise. Now they will examine and make decisions on any artifact from anywhere for anybody. This reduced the value of respect of their work on current evaluations, and creates concern about their past work.

No one person can know everything about everything! Another area of con*cern are those with a minimal amount of experience. Some were clever enough to upload a "dealer For Sale web site", and enjoy a few moments of success then proudly proclaimed authority as an expert authenticator. Ridiculous!

I can't help but think about a party from the midwest who I thought was a fairly good examiner on flint items, and said that stone is stone no matter where from, then proceeded to make decisions on items out of his expertise. He found him*self the brunt of condemnation in a short while, and now most of those papers are respected by no one!
What is the real culprit? My opinion is greed! It seems so simple. A few people might come up to you at an artifact show and ask your opinion. Suddenly, you think you have become an expert. Then you go home, look up your local printer and make your certificate (just a little different than someone who is respected), advertise your service and now you are one!

At first you authenticate (or so you pretend) those items you are familiar with, then collectors send some you are not sure of, but you paper anyway because you don't want to return the money. You can't afford to say you are not sure, or don't know because you might lose face. Really! You already have. Experienced collectors will ignore your papers and only internet collectors who know no better will go there!

Again more than 60 persons are papering! The mob of authenticators (or who think they are) are gaining momentum, but only for a little while because when everybody becomes expert, then there are no experts anymore!"

 

[monsterrack]

Mogi what people have asked for is just come out and show a full view of your COA and if your friends do it for a living it is not going to hurt them in anyway( As a matter of fact they may get more work) from some members. I am over the age of 60 myself and I have been doing artifact collecting for most of those years. Also I have put many a mile walking and hunting in places that most folks want even think of going and I also have spent a long time studying the art of making reproductions. Most of the members on here know what I can make and I have shown them what can be done to change the look of a stone item and I am also a flint knapper. All of the knifes in the last photo started out just like the snow white one in the first set of photos. They were antiqued with natural minerals and you can look deep with a microscope and find deposits and it wont come off with any type of solvent. Some of the folks on here have started other artifact groups, work in museums, have very large collections ( that they have found), some have collections with bought items. What I'm trying to say is most of us are not new to this game and believe me there are a great number of artifakes in the market, they have been being made for a 100yrs or longer. We try to have good discussions on this site, and when someone comes in new we like to make them feel welcome. On the other hand there has been so many come on here with items that would make the Rutz Clovis look cheap and would not give out any info, then they get pegged as talking BS or trolling. We don't wont to know your buyers, your hunting spots, we are just asking for the info to validate said items. The most important thing is we want to keep this site a good artifact site with good artifacts and a place that newbies can learn what to be on the lookout for, where to hunt and what are the red flag signs to reproductions. This is not or are there many sites that you can just post what ever and not get flak about it.

 

[mogi]

Mogi what people have asked for is just come out and show a full view of your COA and if your friends do it for a living it is not going to hurt them in anyway( As a matter of fact they may get more work) from some members. I am over the age of 60 myself and I have been doing artifact collecting for most of those years. Also I have put many a mile walking and hunting in places that most folks want even think of going and I also have spent a long time studying the art of making reproductions. Most of the members on here know what I can make and I have shown them what can be done to change the look of a stone item and I am also a flint knapper.View attachment 1389915View attachment 1389916View attachment 1389917 All of the knifes in the last photo started out just like the snow white one in the first set of photos. They were antiqued with natural minerals and you can look deep with a microscope and find deposits and it wont come off with any type of solvent. Some of the folks on here have started other artifact groups, work in museums, have very large collections ( that they have found), some have collections with bought items. What I'm trying to say is most of us are not new to this game and believe me there are a great number of artifakes in the market, they have been being made for a 100yrs or longer. We try to have good discussions on this site, and when someone comes in new we like to make them feel welcome. On the other hand there has been so many come on here with items that would make the Rutz Clovis look cheap and would not give out any info, then they get pegged as talking BS or trolling. We don't wont to know your buyers, your hunting spots, we are just asking for the info to validate said items. The most important thing is we want to keep this site a good artifact site with good artifacts and a place that newbies can learn what to be on the lookout for, where to hunt and what are the red flag signs to reproductions. This is not or are there many sites that you can just post what ever and not get flak about it.

Thank you sir for reaching out and also for showing your beautiful work. To the people that know me if i told them the moon was green then they would say the moon is green as well. I was hoping for a much different reception than what i got. Once again thank you and beautiful work! Respectfully, Mogi

 

[The Grim Reaper]

I sure there has been. Let me clarify something. Are you saying that in my pictures there are no sign of them being worked.
SORRY MOGI,I DID NOT MEAN FOR THIS TO HAPPEN. AS YOU CAN TELL I'M ON A SAND HILL HERE. PLEASE.DO CONTINUE WITH YOUR SHOWING AND I WILL POST IN PUBLIC ON YOUR THREAD.

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That is exactly what myself and everyone else is saying. No one except you sees any work by man on these stones. That is all natural weathering and fracturing and not carvings of any kind.

 

[Backwoodsbob]

You guys really show just how smart you are.lol

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[Igyjastabay]

I think Bob is pulling our legs. He's laughing so hard his head is about to pop off. I used to do it on the old arrow pack forum. I was Ignot Spervian from Milford Ohio. I used to find arrowheads while metal detecting for WWII relics in my back yard. It was a hoot!

 

[The Grim Reaper]

I think Bob is pulling our legs. He's laughing so hard his head is about to pop off. I used to do it on the old arrow pack forum. I was Ignot Spervian from Milford Ohio. I used to find arrowheads while metal detecting for WWII relics in my back yard. It was a hoot!

No, sadly he is 100% serious.

 

[Backwoodsbob]

Oh yes, I'm serious and 100%right with everything I say. They had nothing to loose to prove it. if they were right that is.

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[Backwoodsbob]

That say enough of just how much they believe in themselves. Need I say more, yes study. Mark my words. This is over their heads. My apologies this is something your not use to seeing. There is no way you could have been taught this. Not on this level. By me saying this is not cutting you down or a test of your intelligence. I sure anyone of you can learn this. Seriously guys just sit down with me one day and prepare yourself. I will take you on a journey. That last stone is a very advanced piece of work. I will personally give you a sneak peak into the unknown world of the masters of stone. It to bad they were killed off. Yes it's all supposed to be about treasure. And it can be but I don't want it to be about that. It the work they did that matters. I don't have to do this. But I feel I owe it to them.

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[Igyjastabay]

Come on, you guys are falling for this. Bob is a funny dude. Lolololol

 

[crj1968]

Come on, you guys are falling for this. Bob is a funny dude. Lolololol

Hmmmmmm.

I remember finding this site a long time ago (and others like it) https://ancientstoneart.blogspot.com/2014/05/single-artifact-blog-5-hidden-story.html

While I can kind of see a little of what the blogger sees, to me it seems very much the same as seeing faces and animals in the texture on my ceiling...of which there are many.

 

[Igyjastabay]

Lololol

 

[Backwoodsbob]

Hmmmmmm.

I remember finding this site a long time ago (and others like it) https://ancientstoneart.blogspot.com/2014/05/single-artifact-blog-5-hidden-story.html

While I can kind of see a little of what the blogger sees, to me it seems very much the same as seeing faces and animals in the texture on my ceiling...of which there are many.

Good work my friend. That is another example of their work. The work of a french Jesuit.

this is part of the advanced stone look all over the head is more pictures. I had to break it down for you.to much at once will confuse the brain making it hard for you to see anything. That why no one sees it.

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