Help! Harry Bird Vernon Kilns California Pottery 1935-37 Olinala-Aztec Plate+14K Pin

[inspectorgadget]

I think my eyes are getting better for things I don't know a lot about.. I mean of course I know Roseville is valuable but I don't know much about it. I see & get lots of McCoy & other similar value pottery in pallets. This was one of the worst Wednesdays I've had in 2 years at my favorite place! Was a light day for this place, not as much stuff, not much good looking stuff on the pallets & so prices were up on any that looked half way descent.

This plate caught my eye on a pallet of stuff that didn't have much else all that great (or so I thought). Got the pallet for $5 & was pleased to find out later that Harry Bird is actually a somebody (he invented inlaid glaze + was sort of credited with taking California pottery to the next level in the 30's) & this plate seems to be kind of rare as are all of his pieces from his times at Vernon Kilns.

Only 2 running auctions on the bay for his plates from this same time period (1935-1937). vernon kilns harry bird | eBay

The one with a pair of fish is $275 BIN & has 13 watchers & about 1000 views Vernon Kilns Pottery Harry Bird Tropical Fish DNR Plate | eBay

The other one is $175 BIN with 3 available & 1 already sold.

Don't really know where to price this one & it's possibly another of those pretty rare items with a limited amount of collectors. A few can be found on Worthpoint that have sold a few years back (none in orange) but I'm not a member so I can't see what they brought. This plate caught my eye as being unusual but I was very surprised after research that it's from the 30's. Its in very nice shape, no crazing at all! An anomaly is the design of the name & company as all the other Harry Bird pieces I can find say "Bird Pottery" with a bird design tho the Vernonware Pattern Identification Gallery says " - Designs by Harry Bird or Bird Pottery are grouped under "Bird Pottery". So there are 2 different types but the type that actually says Bird Pottery seems to be way more common.

Anyway here is the plate along with a 14K white gold pin of some sort that I found in the same pallet, anyone recognize the symbols on it? Anyone know what it could be from? Looks to be more than just a fashion piece. Almost masonic but not really.



Pin (you can see the 14K pretty good in the 2nd pic up by where the pin part closes) Its a tiny marking but showed up well! I think its onyx or something similar in the middle tho there are other colors where the symbols are.

 

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[Beachkid23]

I can't remember the name. But if you google Masonic pentagram, you will find info on the gold pin. If not the group it came from.

 

[billn1956]

I am not sure but does it have to do with the eastern star ?

 

[inspectorgadget]

I can't remember the name. But if you google Masonic pentagram, you will find info on the gold pin. If not the group it came from.

Yep you are correct, thanks!

I am not sure but does it have to do with the eastern star ?

You're exactly right, thanks!

 

[CladSpends2]

Damn, I wanted to say Eastern Star first and be of help to someone. Damn, damn, damn....................Eastern Star!!!

T.

 

[inspectorgadget]

Damn, I wanted to say Eastern Star first and be of help to someone. Damn, damn, damn....................Eastern Star!!!

T.

Love the enthusiasm, its OK if no one else would have answered your info would have been gold! I'll still give ya a like & a thanks for the effort!

 

[Isayhello2u]

for the vernon kilns. go to your local library for [h=1]Collectible Vernon Kilns: An Identification and Value Guide[/h]if they don't have it they can get a copy with an Interlibrary loan (different library systems do charge for a loan) anyway it was written before the price of everything went down but if you compare prices of things you can find current prices of. then that would give you a ball park figure. in my uneducated opinion id place it around 25 to 30 just because its so plain a design.

 

[inspectorgadget]

for the vernon kilns. go to your local library for [h=1]Collectible Vernon Kilns: An Identification and Value Guide[/h]if they don't have it they can get a copy with an Interlibrary loan (different library systems do charge for a loan) anyway it was written before the price of everything went down but if you compare prices of things you can find current prices of. then that would give you a ball park figure. in my uneducated opinion id place it around 25 to 30 just because its so plain a design.

I appreciate your input but I will say this.. Anything in that book you suggest can be found online! Vernon Kilns has a great web page for identification (vernonware) but any price or value info is completely WORTHLESS! There is not enough of this stuff recently sold to have any sort of an accurate pricing guide. Doesn't matter tho because I sold it for $165 (to a dealer) (*EDIT* make that $155) so I know you're a little off in your estimate! Find another one for sale anywhere! You can't because there isn't another one for sale anywhere (at least online). Bird pottery from Vernon Kilns brings real good money & there is only 2 years of it 35-37. At any given time you're lucky to find 2 pieces on eBay of Harry Bird pottery, let alone Vernon Kilns Bird pottery. $175 to $275 per plate seems to be the going rate for his inlaid glazed plates of that era. Rarity easily trumps what kind of design it has!

 

[dumpsterdiver]

Gadget,


I paid for worthpoint this month because I had some odd ball things I was trying to find. Its really not worth it. And since all the pics are from ebay its really just ebay taking your own pics and selling them back to you which not many other companies could get away with that. Even when you pay you still have popup ads sometimes which is just insulting. I mean I just gave you $15. For me it does speed up research.

The pair 2 plates in blue 2011 $299
the teal one 2008 $59
the blue 2013 $23
I didnt see that pattern in that color. so Id say you done good.

and for reference keep your eye out for the one with the 3 angelfish in the middle $1264

I recieved my pocket blacklight shined it in my kitchen cabinets and found what i thought was a pyrex bowl glowing. It was labeled tufglas and was a very light green color. I'm gonna stop eating out of it. that blacklight tip has been great.
Thanks

 

[inspectorgadget]

Gadget,


I paid for worthpoint this month because I had some odd ball things I was trying to find. Its really not worth it. And since all the pics are from ebay its really just ebay taking your own pics and selling them back to you which not many other companies could get away with that. Even when you pay you still have popup ads sometimes which is just insulting. I mean I just gave you $15. For me it does speed up research.

The pair 2 plates in blue 2011 $299
the teal one 2008 $59
the blue 2013 $23
I didnt see that pattern in that color. so Id say you done good.

and for reference keep your eye out for the one with the 3 angelfish in the middle $1264

I recieved my pocket blacklight shined it in my kitchen cabinets and found what i thought was a pyrex bowl glowing. It was labeled tufglas and was a very light green color. I'm gonna stop eating out of it. that blacklight tip has been great.
Thanks

Thanks for the Worthpoint info! Pay to get popups, geez what a let down huh?

I sold the plate to a guy who deals in only pottery (& I sold for $155 not $165). He had a buyer who needed the plate to complete a set (I think he got $215 out of it) & he had been on the hunt for one for well over a year. This plate in orange I guess is very hard to find, even in pictures. He said the Aztec Orange is by far the hardest of the Aztec patterns to find. BTW this guy was somewhat local to me & somehow tracked me down from finding this thread while searching on Google. He then contacted me thru Facebook asking if I was the one who had this plate & asked if I wanted to sell it. Some people have mad computer skills, dunno how he managed to do what he did tho I know people who can do it.

Are there ones with different numbers of angelfish on them? Cause the one in the link in my opening post has 2 angelfish (or so it looks like) & they want $275 for it.

Ya if that Tufglas glows you probably shouldn't be using it. Tho it depends on the kind of glow it gives off, if its a mild yellow glow it's not uranium causing it & thus safe to use. If it's a very noticeable green glow then it's probably uranium. What year is the bowl from? Age can tell ya if there's any uranium in it like if its between 1942 & 1949 it almost guaranteed contains no uranium. My real blacklights bring out colors in all types & ages of glass. Some newer crystal glows a soft vibrant yet cool blue color, Some very old cut crystal & pressed glass glows a strong yet very pale yellow color. Amberina glows a very strange orange color that looks to only be on the surface & that's from the manganese content which is also safe.

Again thanks for the worthpoint info & Merry Christmas!

 

[dumpsterdiver]

Thanks Merry Christmas to you as well!

Yeah if you need anything else from the site let me know. I've been trying to expand my knowledge lately. So I will pay for a couple months but then I'm going to drop it. I seem to have better luck with library books in terms of seeing odd pieces. But I ignore the prices. I actually wish there were more generalized books. As in this style of pottery is generally attributed to... this style of glass is generally attributed to.... And then I could work from there. i would pay good money for a comprehensive book like that. I found one or two books close to what I want but all the books I find are still more specific than I want. I don't really want a price guide on every brand there is because its not useful.

Ok I went back and looked it was a platter with 3 angel fish. Some problems with the glaze and it was 16&1/2 inches. That plate on ebay currently sold in 2007 for $125. Which brings me to my other gripe with worthpoint they seem to delete duplicate items. It will show up in the search but you click on it and its not available anymore. And I wonder are they deleting the cheaper ones or the more expensive ones. So you still cant really get an average value on most things.

The best I can guess on the tufglas from other ebay auctions tells me 1930-s to 1940s. but its a bright green glow and probably lighter than the old coke bottle shade without the blacklight. Funny you mentioned the crystal because I've seen the blue glow and thought maybe it was just me.

I will also add when I use to work in a pawn shop people in general were fascinated masonic rings and books. Thought they were buying some secret knowledge or I heard you can't sell these.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[inspectorgadget]

Sounds like Worthpoint is kind of a sham! I see what you are saying about them deleting duplicate items & must wonder exactly why they do that. I don't see how it benefits them one way or the other to not show prices of everything instead of only showing you selective prices & items. And I think just like you do, such as which ones are they deleting the high dollar or the low dollar ones!

I have several late 60's early 70's masonic bibles. The bible they get once they become a 3rd degree master mason I have 2 of in their original boxes with all paperwork. Then I have the large masonic Heritage Master Reference Edition with Red Letter notations bible & another one I can't remember at this second & I really don't want to go dig it out. If I see anything masonic thrown away at the auction I usually grab it & that's where the bibles I have came from.

That blue glow isn't you, it's from some formula used for newer leaded crystal. Some of it glows a brighter blue than others & I'm not quite sure why. Most crystal shows no color at all under blacklight just a mild purple hue from the light its self.

I agree on the book thing as they are either to specific or to broad!

Sounds like your tufglas probably does contain uranium especially if its from the 30's. The actual color of the glass is irrelevant as many glass pieces were damn near clear yet contained a slight amount of uranium just to add a little tint or hue to the glass. The blacklight don't lie, that green glow is from excited uranium molecules from exposure to UV-A light.

Can you see what this sold for back in 08? Vintage Owl Sculpture Singed John Delaplane 70

 

[diggummup]

Gadget,


I paid for worthpoint this month because I had some odd ball things I was trying to find. Its really not worth it. And since all the pics are from ebay its really just ebay taking your own pics and selling them back to you which not many other companies could get away with that. Even when you pay you still have popup ads sometimes which is just insulting. I mean I just gave you $15. For me it does speed up research.

Finally, someone who actually has a subscription to worthpoint. What about the "free trial" they advertise. Did you get that first? If so what did it amount to? Also, how many searches does the $15 give you? Is that $15 a monthly fee that gets automatically taken out each month until you physically put a stop to it? Sorry for so many questions but you're the first person I've known that has an actual subscription to the site.

 

[dumpsterdiver]

It sold for $26. Im starting to think ebay values volume over price. So it behoves them in some way to take away the higher price. But just a random guess. Because I remember years ago you could see items from much further back. And for somewhat nominal fee even further back.

Yes I did get the free trial and if you had your ducks in a row I'm sure you could get all the info you needed during the trial. I however do not maintain that level of organization. The searches appear unlimited as far as I can tell. There a few decent articles on there if you have the time to read them. It makes pricing and description writing slightly faster. And I mean slightly as I already have my own things in mind to type but occasionally it will remind me to mention something I would take for granted. Just reading someone elses description can be a minor help. But like that plate he just sold was clearly worth more than what you would guess from worthpoint alone. I frequently find things really close to what I have but not exactly what I have which can mean a big difference to the right person.

Yes it is one of those automatic renewals unless you cancel it. But I'm getting better about canceling those sorts of things.

Maybe one of you can help me. I bought a set of Fiesta ware But it appears the dinner plates and mugs are new while the bread plates and bowls are vintage marked. Do you list them as one lot? Because that would be easier for me but I'm not sure people could handle that.

 

[diggummup]

Maybe one of you can help me. I bought a set of Fiesta ware But it appears the dinner plates and mugs are new while the bread plates and bowls are vintage marked. Do you list them as one lot? Because that would be easier for me but I'm not sure people could handle that.

I would separate the vintage from the new if it were me. Colors mean a lot too with vintage (and new even). I would research the completed listings, compare it with what you have in particular and then go from there.

 

[inspectorgadget]

I would separate the vintage from the new if it were me. Colors mean a lot too with vintage (and new even). I would research the completed listings, compare it with what you have in particular and then go from there.

Agree separate the new from the old for sure!! And thanks for that price INFO dumpsterdiver!

 

[dumpsterdiver]

That was what I thought but not really what I wanted to hear.

I'll check back if anyone wants to drop another worthpoint link.

 

[dumpsterdiver]

I have several late 60's early 70's masonic bibles. The bible they get once they become a 3rd degree master mason I have 2 of in their original boxes with all paperwork. Then I have the large masonic Heritage Master Reference Edition with Red Letter notations bible & another one I can't remember at this second & I really don't want to go dig it out. If I see anything masonic thrown away at the auction I usually grab it & that's where the bibles I have came from.

I just read this and my pawnshop days were probably the very beginnings of ebay. I couldnt give you an exact number but seems like we use to get well over $100 for just about anything Masonic Bible. And mostly just from curious customers not really collectors as we were more of a jewelry and guns type shop. The internet may have removed some of the cloud of mystery though.

 

[inspectorgadget]

I just read this and my pawnshop days were probably the very beginnings of ebay. I couldnt give you an exact number but seems like we use to get well over $100 for just about anything Masonic Bible. And mostly just from curious customers not really collectors as we were more of a jewelry and guns type shop. The internet may have removed some of the cloud of mystery though.

Ya now the 3rd degree ones are worth about $15 each & the master reference ones are worth about $40

 

[inspectorgadget]

That was what I thought but not really what I wanted to hear.

I'll check back if anyone wants to drop another worthpoint link.

I know I have a few, not many but a few but for the life of me I can't think of them right now..lol