Help identifying this ammo casing

[Hookset]

I found this ammo casing while hunting in far west Texas. There is no indenting marks and was hoping someone might have an idea when it was manufactured.

I'll try an add pic again later...

 

[nhbenz]

Lipstick tube would've been my guess. No head stamp, but am I seeing markings on the side?

 

[Tedyoh]

Looks like a 50-70 I found that some of the best ID'd for me....

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/w...k-powder-rim-fire-cartridge-id-date-help.html

 

[NOLA_Ken]

It's what's known as a "Benet primed" cartridge, my guess would be 45-70, if you can get a good measurement of the diameter near the base where it's not too deformed that would help... Dates would be around 1870- early 1882 when that type of primer system went out of use....

 

[Anduril]

Lipstick tube would've been my guess. No head stamp, but am I seeing markings on the side?

The indentation at the center (on the bottom if you stood the piece upright) looks like it was made with a firing pin.
So, I agree with the others that this is most likely an ammo cartirdge.
A good measurement with some calipers stands a reasonable chance of determining what ammo this.

 

[nhbenz]

Yes, given whom the information is coming from I have no doubt that I was wrong.

 

[fyrffytr1]

Item:6060718 45-70 BENET PRIMED CARTRIDGE COPPER CASE For Sale at GunAuction.com

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

If it is a cartridge it's WAY too short for a .45-70

 

[Tedyoh]

50-70 is shorter

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[BosnMate]

Pistol cartridge, .45 long colt. The .45 Colt cartridge was a joint development between Colt's Patent Firearms Manufacturing Company, of Hartford, Connecticut, and the Union Metallic Cartridge Company of Bridgeport, Conn. Colt began work on the revolver in 1871, and submitted a sample to the U. S. Army in late 1872. The revolver was accepted for purchase in 1873. Benet primed cartridges were developed by Col. S. Benet, Commander of Frankford Arsenal in the late 1860's. A copper or iron cup was secured inside the head of the case, and served as an anvil to hold the priming mixture in position for the firing pin to strike and fire the bullet. Your find has the crimp at the base of the cartridge case, showing that it is Benet primed. The cases for this style of bullet was made of gilding metal, which is basically copper. Custer's troops were defeated at the Little Big Horn, some say because the ejector of the 73 Springfield carbine pulled through the case, leaving the stuck case in the gun barrel, thus rendering the carbine useless. Custer's troops also carried the Colt pistol and the Benet primed pistol cartridges. The army also adopted the .45 S&W Schofield revolver in 1875. The Schofield revolver fired a .45 caliber cartridge that was shorter than the Colt, so the shorter cartridge could be fired in the Colt, but the longer colt cartridge would not chamber in the Schofield. The case length for the colt cartridge is 1.285 inches, and the rim diameter is .512 inches. The Schofield length is 1.100 inchs, rim diameter .522. There is one other short cartridge that yours might be. The U. S. Army adopted the 50-70 rifle and carbine in 1866, and that firearm was in use until 1873, when the 45-70 replaced that caliber. They were using basically the same single shot Springfield firearm, just different caliber ammo. Your find is too short to be a 45-70, but it could possibly be a 50-70. The 50-70 case length is 1.750 inches, with a rim diameter of .660 inches. Your find has got to be one of those three. Being found in west Texas, it could be Indian Wars, or buffalo hunters. A find like that, my mind would run wild.

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[Icewing]

Without a size reference I don't know how anyone can make a guess of any kind.

 

[agflit]

Looks like a Benet primed 45 Long Colt short case to me...

Just a W.A.G on my part..been some time since I've seen one.

ag

 

[Hookset]

Wow, you guys are amazing! I'll get measurements once I am back home. I can tell you the diameter is a touch smaller than a dime, but again I'll get all the figures in a day or two.
Thanks again

 

[BosnMate]

Without a size reference I don't know how anyone can make a guess of any kind.

Because that particular type of inside primed bullet was only manufactured for 10 years, and only made in four sizes. They were in use longer than ten years, I have loaded ones in my collection, in fact I have an unopened box of Benet primed 45-70 cartridges. In the picture, the case is obviously to short to be a 45-70 rifle, so that leaves only two types of pistol bullet, and the 50-70 rifle. The cartridge case can't be older than 1872 to 1882, but it could have been fired much later than that. Back in the late 70's or early 80's, (that's 1970) a friend pulled the string on a box of those same cartridges and shot them all up. They are just worth to much money to shoot up now days, but I suppose someone might do it. The box I have cost $120, and you couldn't buy it from me for that price now. I said the case couldn't be older than 1872, and that's wrong, if it's a 50-70 it could date to 1866, 45 long colt to 1872 and the .45 Schofield would date to 1875. So there you have it. This particular cartridge is unique, and I'm just telling him what his options are, with exact measurements he'll know exactly what he has. I'm editing the post, because I just remembered, he can date the case even closer. The cartridges were manufactured without head stamps until March of 1877, when they started head stamping, with the month, and year. So there is a five year period that the cartridges were manufactured without head stamps.

 

[Hookset]

BosnMate,
Thank you so much for this info. To me this is a real treasure, and to have the information you shared makes it even more a treasure. As you stated, there’s no telling when it might have been fired, but I will let my imagination run wild with the possibilities. We have also found Indian artifacts in the same area. Time to daydream a little. Thanks again to all…

 

[Icewing]

How about those measurements, it still looks a lot like an old brass shotgun shell to me.

 

[Hookset]

Is the his close enough?

 

[Hookset]

 

[Tedyoh]

Yep...See 2nd reply.....

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[Hookset]

Tedyoh,
AWESOME. i am getting hooked on this site... lots of great people sharing great information.