Help me out with Sumter National Forest regulations

[SlateBelter]

I’m looking into the Sumter National Forest management plan, there is a provision relating to gold panning, but it’s unclear to me what is allowed. Looking at old threads in this forum it seems like contacting the Long Cane district office and talking to those folks is the way to get a permit and explanation of what is allowed. I did call them, and the woman who answered simply said “No, gold panning isn’t allowed.” She didn’t have a place for me to go see a regulations stating that, and I can’t find it anywhere online, so I’m kind of stumped. Anyone have more recent information on this?

 

[DizzyDigger]

Here is the link for accessing the regulation...

https://www.fs.usda.gov/sites/nfs/files/r08/francismarionsumter/publication/BAN%20ON%20USE%20OF%20METAL%20DETECTORS.pdf

And and excerpt from the regulations relating to panning...

After reading over some of those regulations, it appears you are still allowed to fart, although
that too is likely governed by some noise regulation...so fart quietly.

 

[arizau]

From what I read online, gold panning is legal. Check with areawide prospecting clubs for first hand info and experience.

 

[SlateBelter]

Thanks for the replies guys. I’m chasing down some details from the regs and recent orders, and I do think it is still legal if you request permission from the right people in the right way. I’ll drop back by when I get clarification so other folks can understand too.

 

[SlateBelter]

Alright here’s an incomplete update.

1. April 18, 2025 JaSal Morris, Forest supervisor of Francis Marion and Sumter National Forests signed Order 08-12-00-25-05 which can be seen at https://www.fs.usda.gov/sites/nfs/f...publication/BAN ON USE OF METAL DETECTORS.pdf

2. This order prohibits a large number of activities within the bounds of the entire national forest, most of which were already prohibited. For example, driving on a road closed to public access, public nudity, or consumption of alcohol by a person under the age of 21.

3. One prohibited activity listed is “Prospecting for hard rock minerals, including panning for gold. 36 CFR 261.53(c)”

4. If we look up 36 CFR 261.53, we can read “When provided by an order, it is prohibited to go into or be in any area which is closed or restricted for the protection of:
(c) Objects or areas of historical, archeological, geological, or paleontological interest.“

Federal Register :: Request Access

www.ecfr.gov

5. Based on the wording of the order, the implication is that gold panning is prohibited throughout the entire national forest to protect special interests outlined above. It seems essentially impossible for them to justify prohibition of panning on an area the size of Rhode Island.

6. If you read 36 CFR 261.53 it is actually justification to close an area to entry, not prohibit an activity. Because the only boundaries of mentioned for the closure order are boundaries of Francis Marion Sumter National Forest, the literal reading of the order is that the entire forest is closed to entry to protect the things outline in 36 CFR 261.53(c)

7. If we continue reading the closure order, we see that individuals can be exempt from the closure order if they have a permit. Interestingly when I called the Andrew Pickens Ranger district and asked for a permit, they were happy to help. On the other hand the Long Cane Ranger district said (and I paraphrase) “Gold panning isn’t allowed. Last year we got an order from Washington that there is no more gold panning.”

8. I called the forest supervisor’s office in Columbia and left a message inquiring about panning and permits. They called back and left me a message saying that gold panning is no longer allowed.

To be honest, I’m not an expert, or a lawyer, so maybe I’m missing something. It feels like when looking for justification for closure of prospecting and panning they just grabbed the first justification they could find without paying attention to what it actually says. Then it’s up to each district office to read the order and understand what is going on. Some offices will be better equipped to do that than others.

My plan of action is to talk to the forest supervisor’s office again and just ask them why it is closed. If they cite 36 CFR 261.53(c) I’ll ask them to share the decision memo, since that should contain their proof that the entire forest needs to be closed to gold panning. We’ll see where it goes from there.

I also emailed the Augusta, GA GPAA chapter which has a claim in McCormick, SC, which is slap in the middle of the long cane district. Maybe they’ve already been in talks and gotten some kind of permission.

​

 

[russau]

All National parks have their own website with "their" rules

 

[Digger54]

All National parks have their own website with "their" rules

Back in the mid 90s I spoke with the Wekiva Springs State park to see if I could metal detect. They said sure, but I was not allowed to dig or remove anything from the park.

 

[Assembler]

Here is the link for accessing the regulation...

https://www.fs.usda.gov/sites/nfs/files/r08/francismarionsumter/publication/BAN%20ON%20USE%20OF%20METAL%20DETECTORS.pdf

And and excerpt from the regulations relating to panning...

View attachment 2258321



After reading over some of those regulations, it appears you are still allowed to fart, although
that too is likely governed by some noise regulation...so fart quietly.

Notice that both "Prospecting" and 'Farting quietly' fall under the CFR's 'Recreational activities'.
Now just what do the CFR's apply too??
What is "Mining" again??

 

[SlateBelter]

All National parks have their own website with "their" rules

National Parks have pretty cut and dry rules. National Forests are more complicated because they must be multi use land. East coast forest are even tougher because they are “acquired lands” and therefore governed by the Mineral Leasing Act of 1947 in regards to prospecting. On these acquired lands, we have no automatic right to prospect, stake a claim, or mine. Instead, something like gold panning is considered a regulated recreational activity or privilege. Under the Multi-Use Act, to ban a recreational activity the USFS must provide their rationale and evidence supporting it. The evidence must be supplied on request in most cases, but it doesn’t have to be posted publicly. Long term regulations can be found in the Forest Management Plan, however short term, transient regulations can be put in place by a a Forest Order issued by the Forest supervisor, as in this case. They only apply for a few years unless renewed. They don’t require public comment periods or formal announcements, just posting where the public can find them. In this case unless you dig through the back room of the USFS website and scroll through about 15 different closures documents and then download a PDF, you won’t find this regulation. Or you could go to a ranger station.

I wonder if anyone has considered challenging the way minerals are regulated on acquired lands in court.

 

[Assembler]

National Parks have pretty cut and dry rules. National Forests are more complicated because they must be multi use land. East coast forest are even tougher because they are “acquired lands” and therefore governed by the Mineral Leasing Act of 1947 in regards to prospecting. On these acquired lands, we have no automatic right to prospect, stake a claim, or mine. Instead, something like gold panning is considered a regulated recreational activity or privilege. Under the Multi-Use Act, to ban a recreational activity the USFS must provide their rationale and evidence supporting it. The evidence must be supplied on request in most cases, but it doesn’t have to be posted publicly. Long term regulations can be found in the Forest Management Plan, however short term, transient regulations can be put in place by a a Forest Order issued by the Forest supervisor, as in this case. They only apply for a few years unless renewed. They don’t require public comment periods or formal announcements, just posting where the public can find them. In this case unless you dig through the back room of the USFS website and scroll through about 15 different closures documents and then download a PDF, you won’t find this regulation. Or you could go to a ranger station.

I wonder if anyone has considered challenging the way minerals are regulated on acquired lands in court.

You may want to research into the Laws of the Forest for more clarifications.........just saying.

 

[Assembler]

Here is the link for accessing the regulation...

https://www.fs.usda.gov/sites/nfs/files/r08/francismarionsumter/publication/BAN%20ON%20USE%20OF%20METAL%20DETECTORS.pdf

And and excerpt from the regulations relating to panning...

View attachment 2258321



After reading over some of those regulations, it appears you are still allowed to fart, although
that too is likely governed by some noise regulation...so fart quietly.

You got me to start thinking here with the “Internal combustion engine on any impoundment”………..LOL 😮

Inertial Confinement Fusion

Internal Combustion Engine Of Fusion Internal Combustion Engine Analogy in Inertial Confinement Fusion https://www.ialtenergy.com/inertial-confinement-fusion.html

Inertial Confinement Fusion (ICF) is a method of achieving nuclear fusion by rapidly compressing and heating a small fuel pellet — typically deuterium and tritium — to extreme densities and temperatures so that fusion occurs before the pellet can disassemble Energy Encyclopedia+1. The process is similar in concept to an internal combustion engine because both rely on a rapid, controlled sequence of energy release.

How the analogy works

Engine cycle: In an internal combustion engine, fuel is compressed in a cylinder, ignited, and the resulting rapid expansion of hot gases drives a piston. The compression and ignition happen in a short time, and the energy is released in a single, powerful burst.

ICF cycle: In ICF, a tiny fuel pellet is compressed and heated in microseconds by lasers, ion beams, or other drivers. The compression creates immense pressure and temperature, triggering fusion in the core. The energy release happens before the pellet blows apart, held together only by its own inertia — hence the name “inertial confinement”

 

[Assembler]

National Parks have pretty cut and dry rules. National Forests are more complicated because they must be multi use land. East coast forest are even tougher because they are “acquired lands” and therefore governed by the Mineral Leasing Act of 1947 in regards to prospecting. On these acquired lands, we have no automatic right to prospect, stake a claim, or mine. Instead, something like gold panning is considered a regulated recreational activity or privilege. Under the Multi-Use Act, to ban a recreational activity the USFS must provide their rationale and evidence supporting it. The evidence must be supplied on request in most cases, but it doesn’t have to be posted publicly. Long term regulations can be found in the Forest Management Plan, however short term, transient regulations can be put in place by a a Forest Order issued by the Forest supervisor, as in this case. They only apply for a few years unless renewed. They don’t require public comment periods or formal announcements, just posting where the public can find them. In this case unless you dig through the back room of the USFS website and scroll through about 15 different closures documents and then download a PDF, you won’t find this regulation. Or you could go to a ranger station.

I wonder if anyone has considered challenging the way minerals are regulated on acquired lands in court.

Not clear if this is up to the Mineral Leasing Act of 1947 as the Laws of the Forests go back before the founding of this Nation (USA).
Congress through Legislation will take this in to consideration.

 

[Assembler]

National Parks have pretty cut and dry rules. National Forests are more complicated because they must be multi use land. East coast forest are even tougher because they are “acquired lands” and therefore governed by the Mineral Leasing Act of 1947 in regards to prospecting. On these acquired lands, we have no automatic right to prospect, stake a claim, or mine. Instead, something like gold panning is considered a regulated recreational activity or privilege. Under the Multi-Use Act, to ban a recreational activity the USFS must provide their rationale and evidence supporting it. The evidence must be supplied on request in most cases, but it doesn’t have to be posted publicly. Long term regulations can be found in the Forest Management Plan, however short term, transient regulations can be put in place by a a Forest Order issued by the Forest supervisor, as in this case. They only apply for a few years unless renewed. They don’t require public comment periods or formal announcements, just posting where the public can find them. In this case unless you dig through the back room of the USFS website and scroll through about 15 different closures documents and then download a PDF, you won’t find this regulation. Or you could go to a ranger station.

I wonder if anyone has considered challenging the way minerals are regulated on acquired lands in court.

There is 'Case Law' (Cases) about "Mineral Entry" with the opinion of the court. Good place to look.

 

[k0bgalan]

Geez. The way the rules are written, you almost can't sneeze! George Orwell is still alive!

 

[Assembler]

Geez. The way the rules are written, you almost can't sneeze! George Orwell is still alive!

Did you sign up somewhere for the rules?

 

[k0bgalan]

NO! I understand the need for rules, regulations, laws, whatever. If you drive drunk, you should go to jail. Same goes for any other crime. But metal detecting? Speaking only for myself, I always tamp my divots, pick up the trash I dig, and I even pickup cans, bottles, and other trash and make sure to deposit them in the correct receptacle. It is the slobs of the world who toss pull tab debris, used rubbers, cigarette butts, and other sorts of trash wherever and whenever. Yet, you and I are the ones who pay the price. Ask yourself this. When was the last time you saw a Ranger nab someone for tossing a beer can or butt in the middle of a National Forest?

 

[Assembler]

NO! I understand the need for rules, regulations, laws, whatever. If you drive drunk, you should go to jail. Same goes for any other crime. But metal detecting? Speaking only for myself, I always tamp my divots, pick up the trash I dig, and I even pickup cans, bottles, and other trash and make sure to deposit them in the correct receptacle. It is the slobs of the world who toss pull tab debris, used rubbers, cigarette butts, and other sorts of trash wherever and whenever. Yet, you and I are the ones who pay the price. Ask yourself this. When was the last time you saw a Ranger nab someone for tossing a beer can or butt in the middle of a National Forest?

I can see your point of view about being tidy with trash in the Forests.
If one enters the boundary of the Forest with no business there and is recreating in some fashion / form, then you signed up for the rules.
The activity of metal detecting involves the disturbance of the surface is the often reference point of a given rule.
One priority of the Forest is "Game management", another priority is "Surface management".

 

[Assembler]

If the boundary of the Forest does not count, why do you think there is so many warning signs about entering the Forest?

 

[Assembler]

Land that is not part of a forest can be categorized in several ways, depending on its use, ownership, and ecological type.

Non-forested land types

Forests are generally defined as areas with dense stands of trees supported by adequate precipitation. Land outside this category may be:

Grasslands – open areas dominated by grasses, often in drier climates.

Woods or woodlands – scattered trees in drier regions, not dense enough to be classified as a forest Bureau of Land Management.

Barrens or shrublands – areas with few or no trees, dominated by shrubs or bare ground.

Urban or suburban areas – developed land with buildings, roads, and infrastructure.

Agricultural land – cropland, pasture, or orchards.

Water bodies – lakes, rivers, wetlands, and marshes.

Mining or industrial sites – disturbed land from resource extraction.

 

[SlateBelter]

Land that is not part of a forest can be categorized in several ways, depending on its use, ownership, and ecological type.

Non-forested land types

Forests are generally defined as areas with dense stands of trees supported by adequate precipitation. Land outside this category may be:

Grasslands – open areas dominated by grasses, often in drier climates.

Woods or woodlands – scattered trees in drier regions, not dense enough to be classified as a forest Bureau of Land Management.

Barrens or shrublands – areas with few or no trees, dominated by shrubs or bare ground.

Urban or suburban areas – developed land with buildings, roads, and infrastructure.

Agricultural land – cropland, pasture, or orchards.

Water bodies – lakes, rivers, wetlands, and marshes.

Mining or industrial sites – disturbed land from resource extraction.

With all due respect, what on earth does that have to do with the topic of this thread?