Help Needed...Robert Marx, Port Royal, 8 Reale

[FLBoy]

I've been collecting artifacts from Robert Marx's excavation of Port Royal and bought 2 coins from a reliable source. He said he purchased them directly from Bob Marx. While I was reading through his books, I noticed that one of the coins I purchased seemed to have been used in several of his illustrations. It's shown in Pirate Port, Port Royal Rediscovered, and Port Royal The Sunken City.

My question is, has anyone seen this coin floating around as a replica or did I possibly stumble across a coin that seemed to have been a favorite of Marx's collection? It looks exactly like the photo in the books besides some of the details have slightly worn down since then. Since Bob has passed I'm not sure where to go to validate this. Thank you very much for any input!!

 

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[VOC]

I have PR Cob 8 from Bob with a similar Certificate of Authenticity but is a completely different coin.

 

[FLBoy]

I have several coins from PR and you are right, most of his COAs are similar. I have two different styles that he used. One had the coin denomination and the date on one line and the other had them separated like the attached picture. This coin just looks so much like the one he used as an example in his books that I’m really intrigued to figure out if it is In fact that exact one.

 

[PhipsFolly]

FL Boy... I have many artifacts and coins from PR... In looking at yours, I notice that it does look like the photo with the exception of some pitting holes... I would recommend that you refer to a professional numismatist to ensure your coin is real and not a replica... the little pitting marks can be an indicator of a replica... but if it is, it’s a darn good one.

 

[PhipsFolly]

Where in FL are you located?

 

[PhipsFolly]

I’m on the Treasure Coast... I love making contacts with other collectors of Port Royal items... it is my favorite historical site ever

 

[FLBoy]

Where in FL are you located?

I'm located in the Bradenton/Sarasota area.

I bought several coins from a reputable guy who said he met Bob about 15yrs ago at a diving expo. He is an older diver and still sells many of his finds while diving (fossils and such). It really does look like the same coin to me. Even a lot of the pitting and blemishes are in the same places. I took it to Sarasota coin and they said its sterling silver & the weight is correct, but there no way to say if its 100% the same coin because of the slight differences. But the differences only look like a little extra pitting and wear. Thats what I'm trying to get some insight on...is it possible for the coin to continue to pit or wear over the last 50yrs? Did Marx wear it as jewelry before selling it or possibly handle it often? Etc... If its a replica someone went through ALOOOT of trouble to make a one off!!

 

[Salvor6]

I went to Bob Marx's museum when it opened in St Pete Beach back in 1975. He had a lot of artifacts from Port Royal. Problem is that he worked for the govt. in Jamaica and was not allowed to keep anything. So all the artifacts were stolen? When I saw the gold finger bars I could tell right away they were fake. The Museum was robbed the next year and the artifacts were found 2 years later in a stolen car in Ohio. The artifacts were deemed to be fake and Marx was in deep trouble because he filed a claim with the insurance company.

 

[ARC]

Looks good to me... for whatever that is worth.

 

[enrada]

I fought an Admiralty claim against Marx and we proved he used fake artifacts to enter as evidence at trial. I also sat beside a guy at a California Wreck Divers annual meeting where Marx was the guest speaker. The guy told me he was with Marx when He bought the artifacts in an antique shop in Indonesia that he claimed came for the Flor Del Mar. If you look at the edge of the coin you should be able to see a mold or casting mark if it is a replica or fake. Good luck.

 

[Blak bart]

it might be that the photos in the book were retouched to look a bit crisper for print. Some details look crisper in the book photos. I'm not sure how enough ware on a coin thats not in circulation could happen. Notice the waves on the pillar and waves side....they look like they have been retouched to add the tips on the end...along with a couple other small details. So you might have the same coin as shown and the difference is from some photo enhancing. Just a thought.

 

[Blak bart]

looking at it more and more....another scenario is it was struck with the same die and is a different coin of the same year struck in close succession to the one in print. It could be a good fake too some of the pitting looks more like small air bubbles from a cast fake....I hope not !!

 

[FLBoy]

looking at it more and more....another scenario is it was struck with the same die and is a different coin of the same year struck in close succession to the one in print. It could be a good fake too some of the pitting looks more like small air bubbles from a cast fake....I hope not !!

Blak bart, I added a few more pictures to look at. A better side by side and some side shots. Thanks for your help!

 

[PhipsFolly]

Appears to have pitting (from bubbles from making replicas) and the edges of your coin are more rounded off... a bit different than the coin in the book.

I believe Bob Marx did end up with some recovered items from Port Royal in the end. I know for a fact my items did come from pre-1692 PR and know if several people who have authentic items as well, but there are definately a lot of replica items or “substituted” items out there.. and I have seen exactly what enrada said above.

 

[VOC]

Its not been uncommon over the years for some TH's to melt down the very poor quality badly worn coins from a wreck and cast them into a mould made from a good coin from the same wreck.

They then carefully word the certificate as to not tell a lie as it will just say something like Piece of 8 (true) recovered from the wreck of the !!!!! (true)

 

[FLBoy]

If I let the NGC grade it they should be able to say if it’s an authentic 8 Reale right? If they say no, then it’s obvious that it’s a replica of the books example. If they say yes, then it would have to be the one from the book I would think. It seems too close of a match to be anything else besides those two possibilities.