Help With WBTS Bullet ID Please

[Valley Ranger]

Can anyone help me ID these 2 bullets? The first is a 45 caliber and is about .65 inches long. It also appears to have rifling marks on it. The second one is 30 caliber and about .57 inches long. Both were dug near Brandy Station in Culpeper, Virginia. Thanks in advance for any help.

 

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[NOLA_Ken]

The first one could be 45-70? and the second maybe an old 30-30....just guessing though.

 

[duggap]

The second one has crimp marks in the groves. This would indicate post CW period as that method of loading had not come along back then.

 

[Valley Ranger]

The second one has crimp marks in the groves. This would indicate post CW period as that method of loading had not come along back then.

I've heard that before, but I don't believe its always the case. See:

http://sgtriker.com/images/leet.jpg

 

[Monty]

I believe it is so because it is only a .30 caliber. I am pretty sure the smalest handgun caliber incased at that time was probably .36 caliber, but nothing is certain. There are hundreds of old bullets that aren't ever perfectly identified. My best guess. Monty

 

[Valley Ranger]

I believe it is so because it is only a .30 caliber. I am pretty sure the smalest handgun caliber incased at that time was probably .36 caliber, but nothing is certain. There are hundreds of old bullets that aren't ever perfectly identified. My best guess. Monty

You folks are probably right then - that's why I post here - thanks to both of you!

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

I believe the first bullet is a Richmond Laboratory (Confederate) pattern for .44 Army revolvers, particularly Colt revolvers. In addition to having just one groove, above a "tall base" (like yours), that bullet's length is recorded at .648-inch, and yours is .65-inch. See http://www.baymediapro.com/collection/bullet_details.asp?BID=404

I believe the second bullet is post-1866 ...probably by a lot. I will check with Dean & Jim Thomas to confirm whether or not all "reeded-groove" bullets are postwar. (By coincidence, I was talking with Dean Thomas at the Fredericksburg relic show on Saturday afternoon, but that was before I saw this discussion.) So I'll email him about the reeded-goove bullet being definitely-postwar -- or not.

 

[Valley Ranger]

I believe the first bullet is a Richmond Laboratory (Confederate) pattern for .44 Army revolvers, particularly Colt revolvers. In addition to having just one groove, above a "tall base" (like yours), that bullet's length is recorded at .648-inch, and yours is .65-inch. See http://www.baymediapro.com/collection/bullet_details.asp?BID=404

I believe the second bullet is post-1866 ...probably by a lot. I will check with Dean & Jim Thomas to confirm whether or not all "reeded-groove" bullets are postwar. (By coincidence, I was talking with Dean Thomas at the Fredericksburg relic show on Saturday afternoon, but that was before I saw this discussion.) So I'll email him about the reeded-goove bullet being definitely-postwar -- or not.

Thanks CBG! I look forward to your response.

 

[dcinffxva]

I believe it is so because it is only a .30 caliber. I am pretty sure the smalest handgun caliber incased at that time was probably .36 caliber, but nothing is certain. There are hundreds of old bullets that aren't ever perfectly identified. My best guess. Monty

Colt Model 1849 was .31 cal., Model 1855 was .28 cal. Both of these saw use during the war.

 

[Valley Ranger]

I believe it is so because it is only a .30 caliber. I am pretty sure the smalest handgun caliber incased at that time was probably .36 caliber, but nothing is certain. There are hundreds of old bullets that aren't ever perfectly identified. My best guess. Monty

Colt Model 1849 was .31 cal., Model 1855 was .28 cal. Both of these saw use during the war.

Thanks DC.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

But not with cased ammo. The knurled lube rings shown in the second bullet are always cased/cartridge ammo and usually post war (swaged bullet making process vs. cast). CD Leet made cartridges up until 1887 and the early ones looked like:

Smooth grooves.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Ranger Rick wrote:
> I've heard that before, but I don't believe its always the case. See: http://sgtriker.com/images/leet.jpg

When I told him I would check with the authors of the Thomas-&-Thomas "Handbook of Civil War Bullets & Cartridges", Ranger Rick replied:
> Thanks CBG! I look forward to your response.

I caught up with my friend Jim Thomas today, by telephone. He says the relic-dealer website photo showing a "reeded-groove" bullet as being a civil war period Leet pistol bullet in the T&T book is incorrect. He says that all bullets with "reeding" in the groove(s) are post-civil-war. The bullet/cartridge in the dealer's photo is a Leet but it is a postwar version ,,,which is definitely not shown in the Thomas-&-Thomas book.

For anybody here who doesn't already know... the term "reeding" refers to the short, tightly-packed, parallel ridges in the groove(s) of a bullet, and also on the edges of larger-denomination American coins.

If you see those multiple parallel ridges in the groove(s) on a bullet, it was manufactured later (usually, much later) than the American Civil War era (1861-65).

 

[dcinffxva]

I believe it is so because it is only a .30 caliber. I am pretty sure the smalest handgun caliber incased at that time was probably .36 caliber, but nothing is certain. There are hundreds of old bullets that aren't ever perfectly identified. My best guess. Monty

Colt Model 1849 was .31 cal., Model 1855 was .28 cal. Both of these saw use during the war.

Thanks DC.

No prob, but I do concur with the reeding, makes it most likely post war.

 

[Valley Ranger]

I believe it is so because it is only a .30 caliber. I am pretty sure the smalest handgun caliber incased at that time was probably .36 caliber, but nothing is certain. There are hundreds of old bullets that aren't ever perfectly identified. My best guess. Monty

Colt Model 1849 was .31 cal., Model 1855 was .28 cal. Both of these saw use during the war.

Thanks DC.

No prob, but I do concur with the reeding, makes it most likely post war.

Thanks to everyone for the education. Please tell Mr. Thomas thanks for me.

 

[Davers]

Dang Valley Ranger , you have come a long way since 2011 , I joined T-net in 2012 .