HOLY COW my oldest coin to date (1408-1424 A.D) UPDATE new pics

[imafishingnutt]

This is what I found today on a minus tide
i detected near the water on a minus tide where you cant normally detect
and this is what I found.

UPDATE I ADDED THE TWO CLOSE UPS OF THE COIN

IMA SO EXCITED



24.5mm
Obv.: Yung Lo T'ung Pao
Rev.: Nail Mark on top left
Rarity:
Ref.: Not listed

HOLY COW ,,,,,......Reign Title: Yung Lo (1408-1424 a.d.)

However, we must take into account that in Japan during the period 1587-1617
were cast coins with the same legend
Now I'm stoked

THE COIN I FOUND...


THE ONE I FOUND RESEARCHING IT ON LINE...


​

 

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[hmmm]

Hello fish-nut.On that coin Today I was looking in the "What is it", and under "Hmmm" post of the "Old Bench Mark" There are pictures of coins that look just like the one you found.It was a long post and don't remember if he said he found them with that old wooden box in the cave. Any-whoooo, check out that Post. Idig

can you post the html for us, I dont rember this topic or post. "Old Bench Mark"
i found my cions using the jornail if a young cabin boy from a boat.
with the detector, i found the coins exactly where he said they would be.
I did leave one behind.
I took the others to athenticate and date them. the button is 1804, the japaneses coins are 1622 the chinese , youn lo tong po 1408.

 

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[imafishingnutt]

Hello fish-nut.On that coin Today I was looking in the "What is it", and under "Hmmm" post of the "Old Bench Mark" There are pictures of coins that look just like the one you found.It was a long post and don't remember if he said he found them with that old wooden box in the cave. Any-whoooo, check out that Post. Idig

can you post the html for us, I dont rember this topic or post. "Old Bench Mark"
i found my cions using the jornail if a young cabin boy from a boat.
with the detector, i found the coins exactly where he said they would be.
I did leave one behind.
I took the others to athenticate and date them. the button is 1804, the japaneses coins are 1622 the chinese , youn lo tong po 1408.

Its the one about Dem Boards

 

[topdog]

Super find, thanks for sharing.

 

[imafishingnutt]

Super find, thanks for sharing.

Thank you.
Some day I may beat that date but I dought it..
LOL Lord knows I am going to do my best.
Ima

 

[hmmm]

Im trying to search for you, but I cant seem to find one with the large center and the smooth back.
I ll look some more. I have a cash coin myself so I have saved a few links when I was searching for mine.



Left: Ming Dynasty Yong-Le or Yung-Lo Right: imafishingnut's find
1403-1425

Cypresshunter brings up a interisting point.
the upper left coin is a original, the upper right is imafishinnut's coin.
on the bottom row,
the lower left coin, is my yong lo tong po coin and the other, to the lower right, is a 1600's japanese coin. the japanese coin is very similar to the upper right coin.

 

[Bridge End Farm]

awesome ty for sharing

 

[Don in SJ]

I believe the coin is not an original one from the early 1400's, but a later coin from perhaps as late as 1600's. Even the experts are not sure of origin, other than it is most probable that it is not a chinese govt minted coin.
The opinions vary but several now have indicated Japanese or Vietnamese. I did a lot of research on the coin and I go along with the unknown but not an original early version Chinese one.

Here is the closest match I found, please read the comments by the collectors below the photo. One thing not mentioned on this post that I noticed right away, besides the obvious hole size difference, is the spacing of the symbols are further apart the found coin than any of the original cash coins from the early 1400's.
http://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=15707

I attached a photo of an original and the coin in question and also the photo of the one on the link I attached. Again, the spacing and hole size just not indictive of being the first minted type.

Don

 

[imafishingnutt]

I believe the coin is not an original one from the early 1400's, but a later coin from perhaps as late as 1600's. Even the experts are not sure of origin, other than it is most probable that it is not a chinese govt minted coin.
The opinions vary but several now have indicated Japanese or Vietnamese. I did a lot of research on the coin and I go along with the unknown but not an original early version Chinese one.

Here is the closest match I found, please read the comments by the collectors below the photo. One thing not mentioned on this post that I noticed right away, besides the obvious hole size difference, is the spacing of the symbols are further apart the found coin than any of the original cash coins from the early 1400's.
http://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=15707

I attached a photo of an original and the coin in question and also the photo of the one on the link I attached. Again, the spacing and hole size just not indictive of being the first minted type.

Don

THERE IS ONE POINT THAT HAS ME STUMPED
THE JAPANESE COINS WERE MADE OF COPER WHERE AS MINES MADE OF BRONZE
ALSO MINE HAS BEEN WORN BY THE TIDES AND SAND,
HOWEVER i DO SEE THE SPACE BETWEEN THE SYMBALS
THERE MUST BE A COIN OUT THERE LIKE MINE ...AS IN THE SAME.
THE OTHER THING IS THAT MINE HAS A SMOOTH BACK COMMEN IN THE EARLIER COINS.
ONE OTHER THING TO FIGURE OUT IS
MINE ALSO HAS A NAIL MARK OBOVE THE ....K.....LOOKING SYMBOL
ALSO COMMEN IN THE CHINESE COINS.
THERE WERE MANY VERIETIES OF THIS COIN SO ONE HAS TO BE OUT THERE SOME WHERE.
ALTHOUGH I APPRECIATE ALL THE HELP I FIND IT HARD TO EXCEPT A SIMALER COIN
I WOULD RATHER EXCEPT A IDENTICAL ONE AS WOULD ANYONE.
I BELIEVE THIS COIN IS OUT THERE WE JUST HAVENT FOUND IT YET BUT WE HAVE COME CLOSE.
CHINESE MABY
JAPANESE MABY
IM STILL LOOKING FOR A MATE TO IT AND APPRECIATE ANY HELP.

 

[hmmm]

Achums razor sugests the simplest answer in the correct answer. japanese replica. I dont by it.
I have found a coin very similar on the net, the k is slightly diferent , but its bronz.
There is a match to your coin out there, lets find it.,, I am curious where you found it.
you pm to me where you found your coin and ill pm to you where i found mine.
Is your offer to film my finds still valid.

Emperor SHIH TSUNG
AD 1161-1189
reign title: TA TING, AD 1161-1189
S-1085-1086. Bronze 1 cash. Obverse: "TA-TING T'UNG-PAO" in orthodox script. Reverse: blank. Average (6 specimens) 25.5 mm, 4.18 grams.

 

[bootstrap vinn]

Ima,First let me start by saying CONGRATS any coin from pre Colombian contact is a truly rare find and one to be treasured!!! They do on occasion happen herein the U.S.,I know first hand.I'll get to that later.
On your coin,I am no expert but the first thing I thought of when I started reading your post (I read every word) was Sir Francis Drake.One of the first explorers to your area and a known pirate.You've referenced him giving chase to a Chinese junk.He was,according to your research,within a hundred years time frame of the mintage date of your coin.You said your coin was found on the coast in the convergence of the tide and a fresh water stream.Fresh water was something constantly sought after by any vessel.If this is a beach it could have been used as a careening spot to heave down and clean the fouling from the hull,repair leaks and take on water and whatever provisions could be found or traded for.Its possible that someone may have been washing clothes and lost it a little further upstream and it washed down to the spot it settled in.Or the natives may have taken it in trade for supplies and then lost it,of course this is all just speculation and the wanderings of an imaginative mind but a possible scenario.
As for the coin itself,I am definitely not an expert on Chinese coinage,but I am somewhat of an expert on coin wear as to having been in the earth and surf.Coins of bronze or copper,as most know,don't hold up very well in salt water.Yours being in more brackish water appears the have survived better than most.
The rim edge is worn off,the coin according to you is thin.A coin with a center hole would also wear the outside edge of the center hole just as it does the outside edge of the coin.This could explain the larger center hole of your coin and not being able to find a perfect match.Is the coin holed or nail marked?Are you certain of either?Could have just been someones charm long ago on a necklace.
As for pre contact coins being found in the U.S., I know first hand because my dad found a C.87 A.D. roman bronze here on the coast of Maine! It has been authenticated.Who knows how it got there but its quite possibly the oldest coin ever found on U.S. soil.I have picked up what appears to be a button which is about the size and has the same beaded rim design of a widows mite an (early roman coin) and has the faint outline of a bust of a man in a helmet similar to what the roman soldiers used to wear.Also many chunks of natural chalk is found in the area.Most of the worlds natural chalk is found in England and France and the Romans were established in that region in that time frame.All points to the Romans being here, perhaps a ship blown off course long ago.The Vikings were supposed to have been here around 700 AD but that coin would have been ancient even then.The Phoenicians are believed to have had an ancient trade route along the New England coast,evidence of which has been found in carved in stone in Phoenician script.My dad,up until 2007, had never been out of the country and didn't have an eBay account and I know for a fact that he found it here,without question!
Well,once again congrats and WTG!!! Although it's not extremely valuable I know its priceless to you!!! HH, Bootstrap
PS. Didn't mean to hijack your post
just trying to give a little extra insight
and let people know that finds like that
ARE out there!

 

[Montana Jim]

I will concede that this is and will prolly be (cash coins) the oldest find most Americans can find! I would LOVE to find one too. Hundreds are posted here annualy and I feel left out.

However, as to it's actual age... the opinions of Chinese coin experts have been expressed here as NOT the 1400s coin. However, apparently, this single coin is an historical enigmatic item with no equal. Like Hmmm's boxes it's now apparently the coin that will rewrite history.

I suggest a formal hands-on attribution by a respected Oriental Coin expert of your choice to settle it's true identity.

 

[imafishingnutt]

Ima,First let me start by saying CONGRATS any coin from pre Colombian contact is a truly rare find and one to be treasured!!! They do on occasion happen herein the U.S.,I know first hand.I'll get to that later.
On your coin,I am no expert but the first thing I thought of when I started reading your post (I read every word) was Sir Francis Drake.One of the first explorers to your area and a known pirate.You've referenced him giving chase to a Chinese junk.He was,according to your research,within a hundred years time frame of the mintage date of your coin.You said your coin was found on the coast in the convergence of the tide and a fresh water stream.Fresh water was something constantly sought after by any vessel.If this is a beach it could have been used as a careening spot to heave down and clean the fouling from the hull,repair leaks and take on water and whatever provisions could be found or traded for.Its possible that someone may have been washing clothes and lost it a little further upstream and it washed down to the spot it settled in.Or the natives may have taken it in trade for supplies and then lost it,of course this is all just speculation and the wanderings of an imaginative mind but a possible scenario.
As for the coin itself,I am definitely not an expert on Chinese coinage,but I am somewhat of an expert on coin wear as to having been in the earth and surf.Coins of bronze or copper,as most know,don't hold up very well in salt water.Yours being in more brackish water appears the have survived better than most.
The rim edge is worn off,the coin according to you is thin.A coin with a center hole would also wear the outside edge of the center hole just as it does the outside edge of the coin.This could explain the larger center hole of your coin and not being able to find a perfect match.Is the coin holed or nail marked?Are you certain of either?Could have just been someones charm long ago on a necklace.
As for pre contact coins being found in the U.S., I know first hand because my dad found a C.87 A.D. roman bronze here on the coast of Maine! It has been authenticated.Who knows how it got there but its quite possibly the oldest coin ever found on U.S. soil.I have picked up what appears to be a button which is about the size and has the same beaded rim design of a widows mite an (early roman coin) and has the faint outline of a bust of a man in a helmet similar to what the roman soldiers used to wear.Also many chunks of natural chalk is found in the area.Most of the worlds natural chalk is found in England and France and the Romans were established in that region in that time frame.All points to the Romans being here, perhaps a ship blown off course long ago.The Vikings were supposed to have been here around 700 AD but that coin would have been ancient even then.The Phoenicians are believed to have had an ancient trade route along the New England coast,evidence of which has been found in carved in stone in Phoenician script.My dad,up until 2007, had never been out of the country and didn't have an eBay account and I know for a fact that he found it here,without question!
Well,once again congrats and WTG!!! Although it's not extremely valuable I know its priceless to you!!! HH, Bootstrap
PS. Didn't mean to hijack your post
just trying to give a little extra insight
and let people know that finds like that
ARE out there!

Note the nail mark on the coin just above the K looking symbal.

 

[imafishingnutt]

I will concede that this is and will prolly be (cash coins) the oldest find most Americans can find! I would LOVE to find one too. Hundreds are posted here annualy and I feel left out.

However, as to it's actual age... the opinions of Chinese coin experts have been expressed here as NOT the 1400s coin. However, apparently, this single coin is an historical enigmatic item with no equal. Like Hmmm's boxes it's now apparently the coin that will rewrite history.

I suggest a formal hands-on attribution by a respected Oriental Coin expert of your choice to settle it's true identity.

Ditto.

 

[finderzzs]

My mother had a sewing basket with these ancient coins sewn on the lid for decoration.

 

[-MURPH-]

vary nice hope to get one of those one day

 

[hmmm]

On your coin,I am no expert but the first thing I thought of when I started reading your post (I read every word) was Sir Francis Drake.One of the first explorers to your area and a known pirate.You've referenced him giving chase to a Chinese junk.

near where i found my coins, my friend,a native guy who lives on the same reserve his mom still lives on, was diging in the garden. he found a coin, this other guy sent a photo of it to a guy who identified it. he said it is prof francis drake made it to sarita bay. they went to look for more till the elected chief shut them down. they told the herritage branch who told him "it had to have come from a indians coin collection. drake never made it to vancover island."
the end

 

[bootstrap vinn]

On your coin,I am no expert but the first thing I thought of when I started reading your post (I read every word) was Sir Francis Drake.One of the first explorers to your area and a known pirate.You've referenced him giving chase to a Chinese junk.

near where i found my coins, my friend,a native guy who lives on the same reserve his mom still lives on, was diging in the garden. he found a coin, this other guy sent a photo of it to a guy who identified it. he said it is prof francis drake made it to sarita bay. they went to look for more till the elected chief shut them down. they told the herritage branch who told him "it had to have come from a indians coin collection. drake never made it to vancover island."
the end

The be all end all huh? HMMMM....Never say never. Bootstrap

 

[Pepper2004]

Wow, that is neat!

Hope your finds just keep getting better and better.

 

[imafishingnutt]

Wow, that is neat!

Hope your finds just keep getting better and better.

tank yu

 

[Scots Gaelic]

Great Coin, and I love the squirrel from Ice Age (almost as much!)!