Hoof/Foot Bone ID Help

[TJE]

Guessing Elk or Buffalo toe/hoof bone. Anyone have better knowledge.
Thanks
TJE

 

[Paleopilot]

Looks like a Bison 2nd phalanx, 'toe bone', nice find! Oops! I mean 1st phalanx!

 

[TJE]

Thanks Paleopilot, alot of the bone fossils I collected back 20 yrs ago, a geologist from that area dated them appr. 20,000 yrs. old. also said that Camel fossils in the same area. Would it be easy to tell them apart?
Thanks again.
TJE

 

[old digger]

It may also be from a horse. Some photo's for comparison.




It looks like the long pastern, as Paleopilot pointed out.

 

[TJE]

Hey, Thanks old digger, I should have mentioned in my earlier post/w photos...It is 3" long, 2" wide .
TJE

 

[Harry Pristis]

Hey, Thanks old digger, I should have mentioned in my earlier post/w photos...It is 3" long, 2" wide .
TJE

Golly, fellas . . . I'm in Florida where we don't get elk bones; but, I think that this must be an elk medial phalanx. I say that 'cause it's not a bison toe bone and it's not a horse toe bone.

I can provide an image of the toe bones of another cervid, the white tail deer, as my best evidence. (Bison toes in the 2nd image.)

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[TJE]

I think you may be right H.P.
Thanks for your info and pics.
TJE.

 

[Paleopilot]

Thanks Paleopilot, alot of the bone fossils I collected back 20 yrs ago, a geologist from that area dated them appr. 20,000 yrs. old. also said that Camel fossils in the same area. Would it be easy to tell them apart?
Thanks again.
TJE

Here are two examples of each, Deer phalanx and Bison. If yours is not Bison it sure looks similar. What part of the country did you discover the specimens? If it is Cervidae, Elk, Moose, Mountain Deer, StagMoose, or Caribou, I'm not familiar with it. The first pictures are same animal, White-tailed deer, Odocoileus virginianus LC. The difference is quite obvious.

 

[Paleopilot]

Golly, fellas . . . I'm in Florida where we don't get elk bones; but, I think that this must be an elk medial phalanx. I say that 'cause it's not a bison toe bone and it's not a horse toe bone.

I can provide an image of the toe bones of another cervid, the white tail deer, as my best evidence. (Bison toes in the 2nd image.)

View attachment 748454View attachment 748455View attachment 748457​

Hello Harry, guess I had a "senior moment" last night. I meant to say the specimen looked like a "1st" phalanx Bison toe-bone, which, I still think it does. Large 2nd Bison toe-bones can closely resemble the larger ones of the Cervidae group as I'm sure you are aware. Sorry for any confusion.

 

[TJE]

Hey Paleopilot, Your bottom (last pic) Bison?/sure does look so much alike too!!
Discovered in Northern Alberta Foothills (eastside of the Rockies),
Wapiti ('Elk' in native Cree) River banks, Bison bones and skull from the same area.

 

[Paleopilot]

Hey Paleopilot, Your bottom (last pic) Bison?/sure does look so much alike too!!
Discovered in Northern Alberta Foothills (eastside of the Rockies),
Wapiti ('Elk' in native Cree) River banks, Bison bones and skull from the same area.

The skull is always the "prize" when I.D.ing a species. Do you still have it?

 

[TJE]

Nah, I took a buddy and his girlfriend with me one day back then, and guess who did 'the hollering!!...Yep, his girlfriend It was in wide open view..had slid down the bank from above after a few good days of rain! (best time..I think for discovery's) and erosion on the sandy/stoney banks. Last time I seen it (20 some yrs ago) it was sitting on a tarp in their shed.

 

[Harry Pristis]

Here are two examples of each, Deer phalanx and Bison. If yours is not Bison it sure looks similar. What part of the country did you discover the specimens? If it is Cervidae, Elk, Moose, Mountain Deer, StagMoose, or Caribou, I'm not familiar with it. The first pictures are same animal, White-tailed deer, Odocoileus virginianus LC. The difference is quite obvious.

Uh-oh! I see the confusion here. You have mistaken elk toe bones for bison. Trust my images of bison toe bones. Proximal toe bones do not much resemble medial toe bones in these species. Notice the similarities between the deer and the elk bones, the nearly bilateral symmetry (because they are both cervids). Bovid medial toes are not so symmetrical.

​

 

[Paleopilot]

Uh-oh! I see the confusion here. You have mistaken elk toe bones for bison. Trust my images of bison toe bones. Proximal toe bones do not much resemble medial toe bones in these species. Notice the similarities between the deer and the elk bones, the nearly bilateral symmetry (because they are both cervids). Bovid medial toes are not so symmetrical.

View attachment 748718View attachment 748719​

I would tend to agree with your assessment of Proximal similarities, I was referring to the similar characteristics between Cervidae, proximal, and Bovidae, medial, phalanges. The distal end of the bone in question just doesn't look like a match to any hoof core, in my opinion, and yes, I do trust your images, they are always 'top notch' by the way. Maybe these images will help illustrate my point.