How to find the Lost Dutchman mine...

[Oroblanco]

EE THer wrote

It seems that either nobody understood that, or it offended someone, or something else that I don't understand. Or maybe I'm just going nuts. I'm baffled by the weird reaction I got, that's all I know.

If you figure it out, let me know, OK?

There is always a weird reaction whenever details are discussed about the Pit mine; the secret is out, but no one wants to name any names either. As Joe stated, if you should make it to one of the Dutch Hunter rendezvous, you will get more details 'from the horses mouth'. Many are convinced it is the LDM, others remain unconvinced.

I have got it fairly well figured out, you will if you have not already.
Oroblanco

PS forget about any sock coffee Don Jose, my sheep-sneering fellow, yours will have a "special" flavor at the campfire.

 

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[EE THr]

There is always a weird reaction whenever details are discussed about the Pit mine; the secret is out, but no one wants to name any names either. As Joe stated, if you should make it to one of the Dutch Hunter rendezvous, you will get more details 'from the horses mouth'. Many are convinced it is the LDM, others remain unconvinced.

I have got it fairly well figured out, you will if you have not already.
Oroblanco

Do I remember someone mentioning ore samples which matched the LDM?

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Jose,

No coffee for you - if you think that people acting responsibly will stop our government from taking our land and keeping us off it.

I am NOT a student of punishing all for the actions of a few.

If you think that we should just stop the doo-doo heads that do stupid things, that's a different story.

But - hey - if its oil in the gulf that will kill things for years - and someone can make big bucks - then, those folks aren't stopped. Now, just how does that work?

This same government who is "stopping folks from blowing up Weaver's Needle" have closed off millions of acres to us - prospectors, metal detectorists and miners - but, by golly, for a few million dollars, even though I cannot have anything even battery operated, they can race cars through the exact same areas - - I just do not believe that the government is protecting anything - the only thing they are protecting - is their wallets.


Beth

 

[Oroblanco]

EE THer wrote

Do I remember someone mentioning ore samples which matched the LDM?

Perhaps you are misreading or mis-remembering what was posted? All I said was that the fellows who worked at the Pit mine, had gold to show for their efforts.

In my own book, that <gold> has greater importance than the rather transitory honor of having been "the" person to find the LDM. The only person in my opinion who had ore samples that matched Dutchman ore, was Walt Gassler, plenty disagree with me on that and there are lengthy discussions here and on the LDGM forum as well. I take Tom Kollenborn's word on it that gold shown to him appeared to match Dutchman ore, which others do not accept as enough evidence.

I am sure that plenty of LDM hunters only seek the honors of having found it, but to me the wealth holds a greater importance and whether a rich gold mine is the "real" LDM or just a rich gold mine makes very little difference to me. Who remembers the name of the fellow who found the lost Josephine mine today, for instance? Maybe some fame and fortune would accrue from being widely recognized as the discoverer of the Lost Dutchman gold mine, but I would not be willing to place any bets on it.

<A subtle hint here for that fellow who re-discovered the Tayopa mine complex not so long ago too - don't let all that precious metal go to waste! The fame may well fade with time my fickle one-time amigo, but that gold and silver won't. I realize it is as good as money in the bank as it is safe in the rock, but...>


Don (if I may be so informal EE THer) I would like to ask you an hypothetical question - if you discovered a very rich vein of gold, enough that it would make you financially set for life, would you really care if people called it the Easter Bunny mine or the Lost Dutchman? Thank you in advance,
Oroblanco

hot sock coffee for all, except one ex-San Quentin chain-gang fellow who shall remain un-named (but we all know who)

 

[Springfield]

...... We have been losing our rights, one right after the other - and we do nothing - in fact, we help - because everyone has something they don't think is right - so, its ok to make a law on that - trouble is, with all the millions of folks thinking one thing is ok, we end up with 20 million laws that restrict everything we do - from whether or not you can pat your kid on the butt, to what you can use your own home for, to what color you can paint it - to what time you have to turn your music off - to the government - federal, state and local, controlling every single little thing you do. .....

Right you are, Beth. Ever hear about the happy frog in the stewpot? Start with tepid water and heat it up, increasing the temperature ever so slowly. Eventually, before he knows it, the frog is cooked.

The rights and freedoms we Americans esteem were granted to our forebears because those in charge at the time knew it was the most expedient way to claim, conquer and develop the 'empty' continent. 'Go west, young man'. No restrictions, few laws, free land. Go get it - discover the minerals, construct the railroads, harvest the timber, build the cities. The feeding frenzy essentially ended in 1913 when all lands were controlled, the resources were seized, the natives had been removed and the Credit and Interest money machine was cranked up to bleed the descendents of those worker bees who did all the heavy lifting (us). The fire was lit under the stewpot. Now, 100 years later, guess what? Those rights and freedoms have slowly been eroded, the powers that be have tightened their leashes here (for some good reasons), the worker bees are hopelessly in debt with little recourse and the focus has relocated to the Far East where there is a new continent to develop. Laws and regulations? The Man has been pi$$ing on your leg so long, you think it's just raining.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HMMM no cottin pickin coffee?? That puts me in a foul mood, grrrrr


Beth sniff and here I have stood up in bloody battle in yer honor snifff. -- If I may suggest, what land would you be free to prospect on and deface today if the gov hadn't made it into the various protected reserves. It would be like Europe or England, it would be all privately owned. so there

As for --> If you think that we should just stop the doo-doo heads that do stupid things, that's a different story.

Never heard of what makes a Stallion ? hmm might work for oro also?

Oro: Tayopa is waiting, when are you gonna brave the gov't and the weird narcos (Sinaloa Cartel) to open it up? Pooches welcome naturally, as for that back biting, mean, thankless escapee from a African harem, that would withhold coffee from a genuine dying addict, sigh only if you guarantee to beat her with a stick twice daily, AFTER she has delivered the coffee..

Springfield, the land originally belonged to the gov't, they opened it up to develop it then retained certain sectors for the future to see just what
the orig had .

Don jose de La Mancha (the atavist that lives in the cave at the end of the trail, contemplating his navel)

 

[Cubfan64]

I take Tom Kollenborn's word on it that gold shown to him appeared to match Dutchman ore, which others do not accept as enough evidence.

Not to derail this, but I thought a few months ago Tom didn't recall saying that it matched?

 

[EE THr]

...if you discovered a very rich vein of gold, enough that it would make you financially set for life, would you really care if people called it the Easter Bunny mine or the Lost Dutchman?

Nope!

Don

 

[EE THr]

...... We have been losing our rights, one right after the other - and we do nothing - in fact, we help - because everyone has something they don't think is right - so, its ok to make a law on that - trouble is, with all the millions of folks thinking one thing is ok, we end up with 20 million laws that restrict everything we do - from whether or not you can pat your kid on the butt, to what you can use your own home for, to what color you can paint it - to what time you have to turn your music off - to the government - federal, state and local, controlling every single little thing you do. .....

Right you are, Beth. Ever hear about the happy frog in the stewpot? Start with tepid water and heat it up, increasing the temperature ever so slowly. Eventually, before he knows it, the frog is cooked.

The rights and freedoms we Americans esteem were granted to our forebears because those in charge at the time knew it was the most expedient way to claim, conquer and develop the 'empty' continent. 'Go west, young man'. No restrictions, few laws, free land. Go get it - discover the minerals, construct the railroads, harvest the timber, build the cities. The feeding frenzy essentially ended in 1913 when all lands were controlled, the resources were seized, the natives had been removed and the Credit and Interest money machine was cranked up to bleed the descendents of those worker bees who did all the heavy lifting (us). The fire was lit under the stewpot. Now, 100 years later, guess what? Those rights and freedoms have slowly been eroded, the powers that be have tightened their leashes here (for some good reasons), the worker bees are hopelessly in debt with little recourse and the focus has relocated to the Far East where there is a new continent to develop. Laws and regulations? The Man has been pi$$ing on your leg so long, you think it's just raining.

I have known a few con-artists, of various types, over the years. The one thing they all have in common is their motto: "If anyone is stupid enough to believe me, then they deserve to lose their money."

Their second one is: "People get ripped off only because of their own greed."

While true, these sayings are merely self-excuses for a person to harm others.

It takes two to make a crime, a perpetrator and a victim. When each try to put the total blame on the other, it just continues the whole thing. When people begin to take full responsibility, this stuff begins to disappear.

But everyone has been taught, for such a long time, that it's all the criminals' fault, that it gets to the point that the concept of responsibility has pretty much been stomped out. Our society has come to the point of considering, essentially, that "God created government to control us all because we cannot control ourselves." But that just makes it worse. And results in all the ridiculous laws we now have, and the necessity of having to pay specialists just to know and interpret all of those laws, because there are so many that it's impossible for any average person even have the time to become familiar with all of them.

But I think that people in general are starting to wake up these days. It's to the point that governments have to invent problems, to try and make people believe that they are absolutely necessary. So much so that it is becoming obvious.

Meanwhile, if the LDM did exist, I think it's possible to locate it, if the chaff can be separated. My opinion is that if it can be established where Waltz entered the Supers, and how long he was in there to pick up some ore, and where he exited, that these are probably among the best clues. Even though he may have had a few different entrances and exits, for use at various times and for various reasons, the best clues are probably there.

The Apache Junction Public Library maps might provide some general clues to the area, but if they show the LDM, it would mean that several different people, at different times, would have had to know where it was, which presents a problem in itself. But since several of them seem to agree on whatever it is that they show, it tends to corroborate that something of interest was in that area. Whether one of these "somethings" was the LDM, is anybody's guess, but there is some probability of it being among these sites.

Unless it has already been found elsewhere.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

allo Gals & gentsmen: it was posted-->A subtle hint here for that fellow who re-discovered
the Tayopa mine complex not so long ago too - don't let all that precious metal go to waste!
The fame may well fade with time my fickle one-time amigo, but that gold and silver won't.
I realize it is as good as money in the bank as it is safe in the rock, but...>

-->if you discovered a very rich vein of gold, enough that it would make you financially set for
life, would you really care if people called it the Easter Bunny mine or the Lost Dutchman?
***************
Hmm, would the result of 20 assays come close to qualfiying?

Ag 27.7, Ag 303, Cu 7959, Pb 302.8 , Zn 746. in grams. 32grms = 1 Oz.


Don Jose de La Mancha.

 

[EE THr]

32grms = 1 Oz.

Don Jose de La Mancha.

It's closer to 31.1 gm....

8)

 

[Springfield]

allo Gals & gentsmen: it was posted-->A subtle hint here for that fellow who re-discovered
the Tayopa mine complex not so long ago too - don't let all that precious metal go to waste!
The fame may well fade with time my fickle one-time amigo, but that gold and silver won't.
I realize it is as good as money in the bank as it is safe in the rock, but...>

-->if you discovered a very rich vein of gold, enough that it would make you financially set for
life, would you really care if people called it the Easter Bunny mine or the Lost Dutchman?
***************
Hmm, would the result of 20 assays come close to qualyfying?

Ag 27.7, Ag 303, Cu 7959, Pb 302.8 , Zn 746. in grams. 32grms = 1 Oz.


Don Jose de La Mancha.

Gold: 27.7 g/31.1 g/tr oz = 0.9 tr oz/ton x 1500 $US/tr oz = 1336 $US/ton delivered to refinery.
Silver: 303 g/31.1 g/tr oz = 9.7 tr oz/ton x 36 $US/tr oz = 349 $US/ton delivered to refinery.
Copper: 7959 g/31.1 g/tr oz/14.6 tr oz/lb = 17.5 lb/ton x 4 $US/lb = 70 $US/ton delivered to refinery.
Lead/Zinc: disregard.

Ore gross value = $1750/ton, more or less, based on today's metal prices.
Looks like fairly complex ore: call it 80% recovery at the refinery (?) = 0.80(1750) = $1400/ton net recoverable value.

Net: Good ore in quantity, but ore is still in the ground. Subtract cost to mine the ore, cost to ship the ore, cost to finance the operation, refiner's percentage and any other costs. One-ounce gold mine - pretty good on paper.

 

[cactusjumper]

I take Tom Kollenborn's word on it that gold shown to him appeared to match Dutchman ore, which others do not accept as enough evidence.

Not to derail this, but I thought a few months ago Tom didn't recall saying that it matched?

Paul,

That is correct.......He said it to me.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Jim Hatt]

I take Tom Kollenborn's word on it that gold shown to him appeared to match Dutchman ore, which others do not accept as enough evidence.

Not to derail this, but I thought a few months ago Tom didn't recall saying that it matched?

The way I remembered it, CJ posted that... Tom said he didn't recall ever seeing Gassler's gold, but I wasn't sure so I looked it up.

Jim





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Re: with all you think you knew
Reply To This Topic #109 Posted Today at 09:13:23 AM

Reply with quoteQuote
Roy and Paul,

Just for the record, Tom does not recall ever actually seeing the fake Gassler ore. As he remembers it, Mr. phony claimed to have some ore.....Not shown!
"That happen over twenty years ago and I have forgotten some of the details."
Knowing Tom as I do, I have serious doubts he would have forgotten seeing
"alleged" Dutchman ore.

I believe you can take that to the bank, but you may want to pursue that line for something better than Tom's word's today. It's more than enough for me.

Take care, friends!

Joe

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Gentsmen, Ladies: I use the 32 :1 as a crude comparative of field gold. Not pure gold which would hit the 31.1 range. Dore would be even less.

Springfield, that particular mine lies in the flat land, 400 meters from a state maintained all weather asphalt road and hi tension power lines. 35 miles to a rr shipping center, 50 miles to Obregon, Sonora, a major city with full facilities, & 5 miles from a labor center, in other words, a little dream mine.

If processing, other than hi grading, is desired, it can be hauled to La Sabina mine, 25 miles further south on the same road, with full facilities.

This is the Tayopa back up mine. Keep beans in the pot while finishing the Tayopa.

This was in answer to Oro's question.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. High assay --> Au 48.1, Ag 2800, Cu 8584, Pb 8200, Zn 3904.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

For the record, Tom DID say he saw the Gassler ore - did not do any testing or anything like that - but, in his opinion, it looked like it was similar ore.

Beth

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

For those who care, here is the direct quote, from Tom Kollenborn, on Unsolved Mysteries - taken from the Unsolved Mysteries transcript:


QUOTE

“He said he was Roland Gassler, Walt Gassler’s son. And he says, well you know my dad found the Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions and he got out this gold and showed it too me. It looked very similar to the gold that allegedly came out of the Lost Dutchman mine.”UNQUOTE



Beth

 

[cactusjumper]

For the record, Tom DID say he saw the Gassler ore - did not do any testing or anything like that - but, in his opinion, it looked like it was similar ore.

Beth

Beth,

I can only relate what Tom told me, but we talked earlier today and I will give him a call tomorrow. I don't take notes or record any of our conversations, so I may make some mistakes in repeating what was said, later.

I don't believe Tom ever said he saw Gassler's ore. If the story that has been told......by others, is true, he saw ore that someone claiming to be Walt Gassler's son showed him. If that story is true, it originates in a lie.

Tom does not like to get involved in these little intrigues that the forums thrive on, so he stays out of debates. He likes to offer his opinions on things relating to the Superstition Mountains and the LDM, which is exactly what prompted him to leave DUSA. His opinion ruffled some feathers.

IMHO, No one, that I can think of, is better qualified to offer those opinions than Tom.

Can you tell me the source you used for Tom's statement? Two of the people that I often quote here, have made their statements directly to me in person, on the phone or in email's. Those two would be Tom Kollenborn and Bob Corbin. If I make a mistake, and someone points it out to me, I will go back to the source and correct my error.

Take care friend,

Joe

I see you just gave your source. The fake Roland showed Tom some ore. He has no way of knowing if it came from the Superstitions or Walt Gassler.

Joe

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Hello, Joe,

Certainly - the one quote is from the archives of the Unsolved Mysteries segment that Tom did. (which is why I gave the credits to the show).

The second one is what Tom said at the rendezvous.

I had always thought - since the Unsolved Mysteries show (and I still have it on VHS) that he did say that. I have no wish to bother Tom with all
the little intriques we have, either. That's why I quoted what he had said on the show.

Now, I don't know about you - but, I figure that, since the show was quite awhile ago, my memory has gotten worse since I first saw the segment, and I'm just making the assumption that, most of us would have better memory 20 years ago then we have now .

I'm old enough now where I have to check and re-check what I hear - or where - I have heard something!

Beth

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

I should add the part of the inventory picture, since many believe there was no such thing as a backpack found with Gassler.


Beth