I D please

[Cosmo]

Recent creek finds Illinois. Big one 6 inches. 3 inches smaller one . Thanks

 

[GatorBoy]

BINGO happy hunting out there friend

 

[theviking]

Nice finds, Cosmo. I just don't see a preform in the first piece, seems way too thick. In reducing a large bi-face you would hope to be much thinner at that stage, at least I would for a piece that looks only a few inches wide. I see a chipped, or flaked adze with the bit on the left side. Maybe I'm way off base, but that's what I see. Both cool pieces what ever we call em. Thanks for the view.

 

[painterx7]

Nice finds, Cosmo. I just don't see a preform in the first piece, seems way too thick. In reducing a large bi-face you would hope to be much thinner at that stage, at least I would for a piece that looks only a few inches wide. I see a chipped, or flaked adze with the bit on the left side. Maybe I'm way off base, but that's what I see. Both cool pieces what ever we call em. Thanks for the view.

I agree with your observations of the first piece . Black one is the one I would say could be a preform but maybe a stage before that like a quarry blank in transition

 

[painterx7]

The more I look at it the black one has the characteristics of being a transitional preform sure has an early archaic look maybe paleo . Looks like the style I've been finding lately

 

[NC field hunter]

Nice finds, Cosmo. I just don't see a preform in the first piece, seems way too thick. In reducing a large bi-face you would hope to be much thinner at that stage, at least I would for a piece that looks only a few inches wide. I see a chipped, or flaked adze with the bit on the left side. Maybe I'm way off base, but that's what I see. Both cool pieces what ever we call em. Thanks for the view.

I agree with you. The term preform is often really broad.

 

[rock]

I hear the word preform just to often especially when somebody doesn't know what the tool could of been used for. But to each their own if I had found it I would of thought tool rite away with all of the work it shows on it. I do find what I consider preforms I just don't post them. I found one the other day that could be a preform by its size it does show the wavy flaking on the sides of it but there just wasn't much work put into it. It shows cortex on both ends some flakes removed as if they might of knocked some off on both sides but a shape of a tear drop so to speak. Very thick I wouldn't think it could of been used and maybe even just worked down far enough for somebody to actually of tossed it. So anyway I do find them.

 

[GatorBoy]

It's not just guesswork if you get to know the knapping process and the way the work is done in stages

 

[monsterrack]

This is JMO, but I'm going to wade into this. First I wish some of you could see my yard near my shop, you can not place your finger down without touching chips, I have washouts that I have filled with chippings. The photos below are all preforms and I will say why I know this.The photo above is of a knife blade preform it was almost completed but for some reason it never made it. The edge is straight but there is no second chipping to finish the blade .These photo are preforms that where made for a stash of performs and like Gator said you can see the rough edge, and they could be used for a cutting tool, but it is not likely because a even edge that is sharp is better than an uneven edge at cutting. They made preforms to trade and to have ready at a moments notice and if they moved their camp they did not carry all of them with them, they stashed them incase they came back.The next group of photos are of what I call a quarry spall. These where made to be hauled from the quarry site back to the camp and then chipped down to a preform, we have to remember they had to back pack it back to where ever they wanted to go. I know of this method because when I go to the quarry to get stone, I take the stone down, not to the shape they did, because I have a truck, but I have to pay per lb. so I don't bring back anything that is not good stone. I know a lot of folks do not like knappers , but if you wont to study your points and the items that you find , you need to understand just how it was made and the problems they faced.

 

[NC field hunter]

This is JMO, but I'm going to wade into this. First I wish some of you could see my yard near my shop, you can not place your finger down without touching chips, I have washouts that I have filled with chippings. The photos below are all preforms and I will say why I know this.<img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1067870"/><img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1067871"/>The photo above is of a knife blade preform it was almost completed but for some reason it never made it. The edge is straight but there is no second chipping to finish the blade .<img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1067872"/><img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1067873"/>These photo are preforms that where made for a stash of performs and like Gator said you can see the rough edge, and they could be used for a cutting tool, but it is not likely because a even edge that is sharp is better than an uneven edge at cutting. They made preforms to trade and to have ready at a moments notice and if they moved their camp they did not carry all of them with them, they stashed them incase they came back.<img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1067874"/><img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1067875"/>The next group of photos are of what I call a quarry spall. These where made to be hauled from the quarry site back to the camp and then chipped down to a preform, we have to remember they had to back pack it back to where ever they wanted to go. I know of this method because when I go to the quarry to get stone, I take the stone down, not to the shape they did, because I have a truck, but I have to pay per lb. so I don't bring back anything that is not good stone. I know a lot of folks do not like knappers , but if you wont to study your points and the items that you find , you need to understand just how it was made and the problems they faced.

Nice post! Some people will ask a question and are totally content with an answer. I've always been one to ask "why". No matter what subject may be at hand, I've always wanted the logic that creates the answer. That's what it takes for me to learn and any decent teacher should know the details. Rack, you would be a good teacher.

 

[GatorBoy]

Yes it is great that he takes the time to describe so well the things that he knows from personal experience.
One thing I've found from my own personal experience is that the Internet is loaded with information if you take the time to search it out when there's no one around to answer my questions.
Not trying to sound smug just saying the same computer you use to hop on treasurenet can be used for that as well.... You can really delve into the specifics of just about anything if you have the patience and diligence to do the research

 

[ncnurseryman]

Great explanation. I was confused on all the differences and this helps clarify some things. Now I'm looking at my pieces in a different light.

 

[NC field hunter]

Yes it is great that he takes the time to describe so well the things that he knows from personal experience. One thing I've found from my own personal experience is that the Internet is loaded with information if you take the time to search it out when there's no one around to answer my questions. Not trying to sound smug just saying the same computer you use to hop on treasurenet can be used for that as well.... You can really delve into the specifics of just about anything if you have the patience and diligence to do the research

You smug @$!?. Lol! You have given us lots of knowledge Gator. I thank you for sharing with us your wealth of knowledge on such a wide array of topics. You are correct, the net has an endless amount of knowledge. Rack's post on preforms was descriptive and appropriately illustrated. We all have unique learning styles. He defined preforms in a manner that any student could grasp. The visual learner, the verbal/literature style learner, and even the hands on learner. It was just a perfect summary on what a preform is. I hope you didn't take any thing wrong. You pretty much posted the same thing as Rack. He kinda filled in a few gaps.