If you were buying a deus what coil would you get?

[vferrari]

XP does not make a concentric coil. Would require a total overhaul of the their coil driver algorithms, I suspect. Although, they have been working on a deep seeking two-box coil, I suspect it could be done.

The advantages of the concentric coil, for the benefit of those who do not know, is that it is theoretically deeper than an equivalently sized DD coil if there is NO soil mineralization. That advantage drops off dramatically with increasing levels of mineralization in the soil. The nature of the concentric's EM field shape also makes it easier to pinpoint with and there are some detectors that excel at bottlecap rejection using concentric coils. These advantages are typically make a concentric coil a great contest coil but there is little overall advantage in the field. That may be why XP made the decision to not to design a concentric coil nor support it in their software. Just a guess.

 

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[vferrari]

What does it sound like though in comparison to the low frequency coil 'H' running at or around the same frequency?

EMI interference may be where it could accel. Have you tried it in any high EMI areas? I can't get 50-60 yds from any power lines without interference.
If you haven't, can you?

First question: It sounds no different than the LF coil as far as I can tell. Not sure why it would? Can you elaborate on what you are getting at, I might be missing something?

Second question: I have found the HF coil to be very stable and EMI quiet vs. the lf coil under the same environmental conditions. I have a site with overhead power lines and found that where I can get interference on 8/12 khz with the LF coil, it is non-existent on the HF coil running at 14 khz. So yeah I think there have been a number of improvements in the HF coils that do make them more stable in the presence of EMI.

 

[rick67]

I hear a different response with every frequency used for the same object.

Your not getting high enough EMI. Usually the higher the frequency the less interference from it. At 18 like I said previously,I still can't get 50-60 yds from neighborhood power lines. Not big ones either and after a rain it's worse.
Next time out if there's any around. Walk under and see with both coils what response you get if you have time.
Most homes long gone here I can't get close to do to that reason. The roads were here for few hundred years. Utilities run right over or in front of most keeping me at bay.

 

[G.A.P.metal]

rick
I live in south central N.Y. near Watkins Glen,and see you are in N.Y. too....can you ground balance the Deus ?
In my ground it is impossible to ground balance the Deus here it runs just great at the set 90 so that is what i run it at.
Any other of the 3 other balance methods than Manual make my Deus very unstable if the coil touches anything such as bean/wheat/corn stubble or tiny saplings .
Try to just turn on your Deus and see if you still experience any EMI .
Hope this helps i have not had any EMI problems with the Deus like i do with the Fisher F-75 Ltd or the Teknetics Omega 8000 or T2 Ltd.
I also have never in my 49 years of MDing never had a machine that won`t balance in the factory settings...the Deus seems to be a very strange beast....but very able !
Gary

 

[pepperj]

The Garrett Carrot and the Deus just don't get along it seems and running it at 8 or 12 the pinpointer will really makes it noisy (this is with 11") I hear the 9" coil is even worse. Is there any difference running HF coils and the interference when pinpointing?

 

[Phishfarmer]

Knowing not a thing I got the 11" LF with my original purchase and bought the 9" elliptical HF when it became available. I don't regret it but then it is my only experience. All coils available have pros and cons. I have hunted(using 11") with another guy using the 9". Sometimes if we get a very faint signal we summon the other over for a second opinion. Occasionally he cannot hear the signal I get at all. Then again the 9" coil he uses will physically fit between briers etc. better than the 11".
Now that I exclusively(pretty much) use the 9" Elliptical HF it seems to be the best of both worlds. (except for those damned .22 cal bullets sounding so good) ha

 

[vferrari]

I hear a different response with every frequency used for the same object.

Your not getting high enough EMI. Usually the higher the frequency the less interference from it. At 18 like I said previously,I still can't get 50-60 yds from neighborhood power lines. Not big ones either and after a rain it's worse.
Next time out if there's any around. Walk under and see with both coils what response you get if you have time.
Most homes long gone here I can't get close to do to that reason. The roads were here for few hundred years. Utilities run right over or in front of most keeping me at bay.

Yes, in full tones, the tone breaks go up with frequency (if ID NORM is off), but you asked what the difference in sound was when you were running the HF at approximately the same frequency as the LF coil, in full tones there is practically no difference between 12 khz and and 13/14 khz as far as I can tell, that is what I thought you were asking. On the LF coil you are going to see an appreciable change in Target ID from 4khz to 8 khz to 12 khz to 18 khz. The change in target ID and full tones tone becomes less as you increment from one frequency to another at the higher tones. Of course the tone breaks and target ID's go up as expected if you run at 28.8, 56, and 74 khz (the nominal HF frequencies) but since everything is getting jammed up at the high end at that point, what you are really losing is resolution (e.g., the ability to readily tell a penny from half-dollar). And there is no ID NORM on the HF coils.

I am not getting high enough EMI Uh, OK. Sounds pretty bad to me on the LF coil, and not as bad on the HF coil at around the same frequency when I am under those power lines. You are assuming the coil shielding and other parameters are exactly the same between the LF and HF coils, they are not. The EMI resilience is not just a function of the frequency of the coil you are running but also how the coil is made, the windings and shielding used. The HF coils just seem to be made to be more EMI resilient and stable. Don't know what they changed, but they changed something and it is not just a function of the frequency they run at.

Also, with the Deus people assume all noise is EMI. Not necessarily true. EMI susceptibility for the Deus must have been a real nightmare for the XP engineers. Unlike most detectors, the XP is susceptible to EMI via it's wireless radio system received by at least three RF receiver/transmitters (in the coil (but not the coil windings themselves), the control box, and the headphones). This EMI is mitigated by the XP noise reduction initialization when you first turn the machine on and have the coil raised in the air - typical sources are WIFI, microwaves, fluorescent lighting, power lines, and other detectors. The second is EMI interference received through the detector coil windings, this is traditionally what all detectors the most EMI because this is your other big "antenna" since you are transmitting RF energy into the ground and receiving it back. This is the primary point where EMI from power lines and nearby detectors are likely to become audible. Some of the other sources can get into the Deus via this path too. The nature how this EMI enters the detector (through the coil windings) is the reason why frequency shifting or wholesale frequency changing often helps. When talking proximity to sources, since high frequency sources are both typically low powered and because high frequencies are attenuated more in the air vs. lower frequencies, operating the Deus at a higher frequency often makes the Deus more quiet, but not always. A nearby, high powered source that just happens to be at 28 khz or that is a broadband transmitter (electric dog fence) for example can ruin your ability to hear at any frequency. In that case you either have to throw in the towel or resort to drastic DEUS settings that severely limit detection depth (silencer, disc, ground notch) or the types of targets you can hear (notching up to high conductors).

Gary also mentions ground balancing. This is not EMI per se, but ground noise is annoying and can be mitigated by properly GB your detector, biasing the GB high if necessary (but you lose sensitivity and depth) and by cutting in ground notch and/or silencer. The other thing Gary mentions is noise which occurs when the coil bangs against a ground object. That is called microphonics and all sensitive detection circuits are susceptible to it. It is caused when minor arcing or other rapid current fluctuations occur due the shock event which may partially disconnect loose connections within the coil or between the coil and the power source. I have noticed that the HF coils are more susceptible to this perhaps due to their operating frequency and also because the battery is connectorized and resides in the stem shaft. Raising GB setting may alleviate this somewhat, but I think this is mainly due to the fact that you are lowering sensitivity. Not sure.

HTH.

 

[vferrari]

The Garrett Carrot and the Deus just don't get along it seems and running it at 8 or 12 the pinpointer will really makes it noisy (this is with 11") I hear the 9" coil is even worse. Is there any difference running HF coils and the interference when pinpointing?

This is a known problem with SOME Carrots and SOME Deus. The frustrating part is that not all Carrots and Deus are susceptible. I have known folks who own Deus and Carrots to trade their Carrots with each other and they solved both of their interference problems (except of course when they are detecting next to each other). I think the variables involved include the Carrot operating frequency which varies from Carrot to Carrot intentionally by Garrett to alleviate the chances of two different detectorists using Carrots from interfering with each other. Second involves the susceptible frequency of the XP coils which are all wound such that they all have slightly different base frequencies (also to minimize detector to detector interference). The wrong combination of both results in Carrot interferences. I lucked out and do not have that problem with my Carrot and with any of my coils. OTOH, I have also switched over to the MI6 wireless pinpointer and now just use my Carrot as a backup or when I am using detector other than the Deus. See if you can switch out your Carrot with a buddy to see if that helps or consider getting the MI6 pinpointer down the road. It is a more sensitive AND precise pinpointer than the Garrett. Not perfect though, since it is wireless and switches off the coil when it is turned on, users have experienced issues of random disconnects when switching back and forth which is frustrating, again the extent of the issue varies from user to user. XP is supposedly addressing that problem in version 4.1. The MI6 can also be use in standalone mode with tone and vibration just like the Carrot.