Incass treasures

[El Dorado Seeker]

Yes, the Incas hid much of their belonging and they had solid grounds to proceed this way: they were invaded by the Spaniards.

What do you know about the legendary (mythical) city of Paititi?
Paititi, the Secret Inca City and its Hidden Treasures of Gold and Precious Stones

It's supposed to be an ancient city somewhere in the Peruvian Andes, some say perhaps Bolivian jungle areas, probably Brazil.
According to this article there were some Europeans who've seen it (about 5 centuries ago), there are documents in the Vatican proving Paititi's existence.

They say there are immense treasures of gold and silver hidden in the city that constituted the last refuge of the Incas.

Because the conquistadores never discovered Machu Picchu, they might not have discovered Paititi either.

I think there's a high chance that this city still exists somewhere hidden below a dense carpet of vegetation. It might be a small ruined, modern village-sized town actually, but the likeliness of hidden precious metals existing there is extremely high.

 

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[Crow]

Hello Eldorado seeker

There are so many Inca villages and cities swallowed up by the cloud forrest. The trouble is Paititi could of be one of the many ruins already found? Identifying and proving beyond doubt the actual site as the legendendary Paititi is of course no easy task. But a wonderful oportunity for an explorers and archies.

Crow

 

[El Dorado Seeker]

Many have claimed that they've already found Paititi. We might never know when we come across new undiscovered ruins, whether that would be Paititi or another one...

I think lots of Inca gold and silver treasures have been discovered and no-one ever found out about them. One just doesn't announce the finding of any treasure.

 

[algaegreen]

A Friendly Update to Inca's treasures...

Crow, I've been bugging Bud to complete the edit of the videos, and when they're done I'll try to post a link. As I said before, it is doubtful I will ever go back. It is too grueling a trek at my age, and the political climate has changed too much.

As John now knows - my dad (Bud Gustin) passed away toward the end of November, 2011 when he lost his battle with cancer. He and I always intended to edit the video footage from the Bolivia trip that John has been writing about here. I still have the transfers from the camera on a hard drive and also on DVD. It is unedited, raw footage from the original digital tapes. There are interesting segments, and utterly boring segments.

Dad always thought that Nat Geo or perhaps The Discovery Channel might air the edited video as a documentary, and if he talked about that often, it may be the source of the rumor about a Nat Geo episode, John. As far as I know, there was never a show about a modern-day expedition to the supposed treasure site.

There are boxes of papers that my dad left behind relating to the expedition, and at some point, I would love to make them available to interested persons, along with the video footage. I do not have the time or energy right now to perform an edit of the footage, and since I was not along on the expedition, I would not know how to edit it in the proper chronological sequence. Of course, the video clips came off the camera in order as they were shot, so that could guide the editing process. But as I said, it would still take hundreds of hours to edit and add narration, music background, etc. An ambitious undertaking, just as the expedition itself was.

As some more time passes, I may be inspired to do something with the video. But as I am not yet retired and have two relatively young children, my "hobby time" is extremely limited.

I was recently contacted by someone who is interested in the video footage, and that person directed me to this site. When I started reading John's posts about the trip and how fondly he remembered that experience, I was compelled to reply to this forum. Since I know John, I may wait and talk with him about all this. John, if you read this, post a reply and I'll get in touch.

Alan

 

[danielb]

My wife is from Peru also! She lived in Lima and Iquitos but is from pullcapa. We visited matchu picchu this summer and so many amazing places. I plan to take my md next time around and search for lost treasure!;-)

 

[Crow]

Algaegreen

I am sorry to hear of Buds passing.

It would be fantstic to see your fathers film clips. For me I would be glued to even the boring bits.

However we suffer from a world today where the average person has been progessively dumbed down in historcal topics as most education systems see history as irrevelent. As of such because of technology film makers can make a documentary but struggle to make a finacial return because films have a limited shelf life before it is ilegally downloaded and spread around the net.

So film makers mainly look to more well known topics to get bums on seats so to speak.The down side interesting and rare films such as you fathers will struggle to get the showing it deserves. The jesuit Plazula Monestary story is not well known to average people and it is a crying shame for all of us. But I only hope one day a film director will to look to develope parts of your fathers films into documentary.

Crow

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Slightly off topic:

Crow, I wanna see a replay of your improvised HAKA with Hardluck and the others.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Crow]

Hello Don Jose

Haka Wow! Who told you about that?

Hardluck!

Man that is going back years ago! That takes me back to my driling days in the western highlands.

Given enough firewater I sure we could still belt out a decent Haka!

Crow

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

My apologies, but If I might be allowed another short off topic post for Crow which will establish / reafirm some of his credentials for speaking the truth of having lived / and had experiences in exploration in absolutely, wild, untamed country, etc.-----
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hello Again Don Jose

I bet you would of loved flying by the seat of your pants up in New Guniea?

It would not have supprise me if you had ended up there in your travels.

Ah the devils misfits.

Many years ago we were up in the highlands working for an exploration company drilling test holes on a selected mining claims. But claims really mean nothing to various tribes as they see you as intruding on their turf

There was small group of us. We were supervised by young geologist fresh out of University, still cutting his teeth in the world. He never understood our university. Our university was the University of Hard Knocks.

We had set up camp only a few days in remote mountain valley. The valley was grassland with jungle all around. There was a small road or I should say the semblance of a road cross a small ford. The drilling prospect was in the floor of the valley.

The crew consisted of me foreman supervisor native relations officer, the geologist handled core samples and assistant core sampler, Crow No1 driller and mechanical genius leading hand. Hardluck, Drillers assistant and number 2. Hobsie and Big Ross were dozer and truck drivers. Come core rod handlers when required. Due to the nature of the job most of crew was cross trained anyway. Bones was camp cook and general hand. Hobise was a big front row forward Footballer as thick as a brick but a genuine person who always went a little off the wall during full moon in which he would howl like the devil. It used scare the crap out of PNG Nationals. Big Ross was a Big Maori but not tall but built like a gorilla with arms a thick as my legs. And the biggest hands I ever had seen. When he clenched his fists they turned into labs legs of lamb.

Ross had an explosive temper and one thing you never do with Maoris is never insult their “Mana” (thier honor) Ross had fled New Zealand a few years ago thumping a fella in Auckland. With his big right hand he sent the fella to the promised land. Other crews and Supervisors were scared of him. So my boss in his infinite wisdom dumped him onto me. However we got on well as I always treated everyone as equals.
The truth of the matter I also did not want to be driven into the ground like a tent peg. He had his moments but I always reasoned with him and after a time he relied on my judgment as he understood my understanding of other cultures.

We had been there for a couple of days without coming in contact with the locals. Until one morning several hundred appeared out of the forest all decked out with war paint, spears machetes, axes war clubs etc. they stood on all sides of valley. We were cut off and out flanked.

We knew there was something wrong as I discovered our 4 native labourers had disappeared overnight. They had sensed something was up. I suspected something was wrong as their mood had changed from being part of boys to distancing themselves from us. Being not from the massive war tribe before us I understood them fleeing as there would be no mercy on them if this war party attacked.

I had called to the others that we have company. Even as I drew the men together as it was very clear our options to flee was gone was we were cut off. Gumby the Geologist was a young man not very athletic quite thin and spindly like a twig was in a panic and wanted to run. His assistant the same wanted to do the same. I told them trust me this is what I am here for. I have grown up with various tribes and know their customs and you will not find that in any university.

Here we were cut off in the middle of nowhere I explained if we tried to flee, they will charge and cut us down by sheer numbers. Or even if one of us tries to flee they will take that as a sign to attack. Hard luck had gathered what items we had for weapons. We had a few machetes; axes sledge hammers and pry bars. Bones armed himself with two large cooking knifes.

Our option was to hide in the vehicles and try to escape a moving convoy through the mass of native tribe’s men. Crow got all the vehicles started with doors open. However I said to the crew to put of their bright orange hard hats and bright orange work clothes with sliver reflective strips, a standard mining work clothes. I got everyone in line like troops in parade.

Crow and Hardluck said well, it’s been nice knowing you think it was'nt going to be pretty what was coming. As they stood in line equally spaced. There were about 6 of us in line and looked to Big Ross and he knew instinctively what I wanted from him. Why are we doing this asked Gumby who was shaking like leaf?

We stood like a line of professional soldiers facing up the hill to leader of the war party who was decked out in his war paint. Crow winked and said to Gumby Kanacki Just wants to piss them off even more so they kill us quickly. A last act of defiance of up yours said hardluck.

I explained that we follow what big Ross does in front of us. It was if we were all facing the firing squad in the tense moments before death. I said to Ross this is your time to shine my friend, there no one who can do or lead a Haka with so much passion than a Maori.

Big Ross puffed up his chest with pride and stood in front of us. And Crow said puff your chests out with pride and Gumby to step up and be a man and shout deeper that you have shouted before, after what Ross bellows and copy his actions in behind him. With our weapons in hand we stared up at mass of natives on the hill in defiance.

The natives of hills around us had chanted there war dance shacking their spears and weapons at us, fell silent. The low drone of truck engines rumbled on in the haunting silence before battle. Big Ross sucked up the air like he was going to free dive. He bellowed out in a powerful voice a haunting Maori battle cry that seemed for one brief moment to echo around the valley. Or it did at least that was to us like the calm before the storm.

We bellowed in deep voices and copied from behind was his movements stamping our feet hunching our bodies swaying, thumping our chests and pointing our weapons doing the New Zealand Rugby union Haka. To us at that time and place it all seemed crazy and slightly cool. To anyone if they were there it probably looked like a tribal war dance crossed between Village people and three amigos.

But it’s had its effect on the natives, our Haka war dance bellowed out in defiance of being totally out numbered must have struck at cord of respect from the native highlanders in amazement. They have never and perhaps never will see again a couple of white men doing a tribal war dance in defiance with the odds they was facing. It screwed with their heads.

In our final moment of our Haka the Natives sung back pointed their weapons down and tuned around and went around us and disappeared up back into the hills. Within no time at all as quickly as they come they had melted back into the forest. I explained to the crew that we have just faced off our Zulu dawn so to speak up in the highlands of New Guinea. And that was the reason why I was here I said to the boys. Understanding how the various tribes culturally conducted inter-tribal wars there was room for each party to maneuver if respect is shown.

Clearly the war tribe was on the warpath on their way to raid another tribe on a blood feud. If we had not shown defiance and showed weakness, is seen as disrespectful to show our fear of them, they would have hacked us to death were we would have fallen. As bizarre as it seems we never had breakfast that morning so we had big barbecue for lunch like if nothing had happened. A few days later a few natives came up and gave us few pigs as a sign of respect.

As you can imagine a shared incident can create bonds with the people you experienced these things last for life. Even with the years so, so swiftly passing away it brings back a smile and smirk to those who were there in that time and place.


[video=vimeo;22763149]http://vimeo.com/22763149[/video]

p.s. I think that is Crow in the front line.

 

[Crow]

Hello Don Jose

Ah! So you have been talking to Kanacki that Madog of a kanacka! :-)

And the other names all bring back memories. Mad Ross I seen him about ten years ago when I was grabbed by that mad Moari in the street and lifted off the ground and given a big bear hug. crazy Ross is in Thailand living with a sweet little Thai lady. Hardluck set him up in place over there and he never looked back.

And Gumby the....well no love lost there. He later found god and he prays for us misfits...

Kanacki tolerated Gumby... but Gumby could never follow in the big mans footsteps. His university was never a match for the university of hard knocks. Gumby knew his geology but had zero understanding of leadership. Gumby was like little fox terrier nipping at your heals and Kanacki in his cool and calm way always put him in his place.

After a trip in Owen stanley ranges Gumby had a big falling out with Kanacki

Did that crazy Kanacka tell you what happened?

That should make the Mad dog smile.:-)

Crow

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

G'morning my friends: I now have a slight problem, shall I continue to talk to
Crow & Kanacki in here on what obviously would be off topic for a bit, or should I refer him to the other site temproarily??

Don Jose de La Mancha

Alt site.

http://treasureworks.com/forums/214-treasure-legends/6884-some-lost-treasure-tales-are-true?limit=20&start=60#10690

 

[Crow]

Hello Don Jose

I have been off drilling for a few weeks. I have forgotten how taxing it is to the body as it has been very hot up in the pilbura.

I see that Kanacka has been busy....yacking

Crow.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Welcome back Crow. Perhaps we should post on Inca treasures a bit, but I refuse to stop listening to your scroungy, beach comber adventures also. They were / are very important for establishing your right to talk explorations etc. through actual experience. Te Salute' I salute you, kanacki, and hardluck my friends.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Crow]

Hello Don Jose. I am not used to working again. I did not remember detesting it so. So I better get back to my hammock.

Ah I seem to remember we were talking about Paititi.... By the way I was in the front row of the Haka The local lanuages Aymara predominatly Bolivian and Quechua predominantly peruvian never had a word for Paititi it was name given to an amazonian region in Rio dios. The letter and map tells of a the land of the godess. And the godess was the wife of the Inca and Inca king they both was the earthly reprentations of the sun and the moon. All the the offical wives of the Inca came from Paititi.

The story became garbled through translation Paititi was never the gold city. It was where the best looking women came from worthy of being the offical godess wife of the Inca. plus the Paititi region had clan ties with the ruling Inca clan. Of course the natives of Paititi told of a goldern city But the natives of patiti was talking about the Koricancha the sacred temple in Cuzco the navel of the world the heart of the Inca Empire which the Spanards had already discovered and looted.

When the Italian Archeologist discovered a map to Paititi and letters telling in the vatican of its discovery he misunderstood that the orginal missionary had heard the story 4th hand and the story he wrote was garbled due to mistranslation. That is the reason Hardluck will not go looking for Paititi. Its not to say there is no buried cities in the jungle? They are being found. But none will be the golden city referred to Paititi because it was long been looted by the Spanish. He gave me a copy of map for wall of our bar. always a great talking point.

Crow

 

[gflores71]

Hello everyone,

This has been an interesting read for sure. Lots of subjects covered including the treasure of Sacambaya or Plazuela as well as the gran Paititi.

Let me start by introducing myself as only a few know me on this forum. I am a Bolivian native who lives in the US and Bolivia. I am also an avid treasure hunter with a couple of decades under my belt. Reading stories and adventures like these stimulate the mind and the adventure side of every individual.

Lets start out with Sacambaya or Plazuela. There is documentation as presented previously, some mention crossing of the Inquisivi and Sacambaya river and others Inquisivi and Negro rivers. I have done some searching thru satellite and have found some possible locations at the first mentioned crossing. The Jesuits will always deny any involvement with mining operations as that was hidden from the crown. It is well known that they were indeed involved with those activities and it is pretty certain that you can find gold where they had settlements (mineral ). This can be in the form of "reductions" the official settlements of the Company of Jesus, or "ranches" that where outlying in other regions and these where used for cattle, agriculture, However, mining is never mentioned.
The low land settlements have gold in smaller size (powder) the high land settlements have bigger gold. The reason for this is well know by prospectors. The famous gold mines of Tipuani in Bolivia were mined by indigenous people, then by the Jesuit, then by the Spaniards. This is well documented by the first Spaniards who discovered gold in that region only to notice that the Jesuits had been there many years prior.
Remember that members of the Jesuit Church were very well educated prior to being sent to missions. In other words they had what we would call today a college or university degree. They where experts in Geology.
They were kicked out of the Americas once the king found out of their riches and a questionable intent of conspiring with another nation to take part of the land of the colonies.
I have personally been to ruins and mines that were worked by them in land that was owned by them by documentation and yes there is gold there.
They had to leave and where collected by the Spanish soldiers and taken to ocean ports in Peru an Chile. They could not take anything with them so that is where the treasures come from. They were left behing thinking of returning once changes occurred in the crown.

Paititi, "the golden city" thought to be in Peru, Ecuador, Colombia, Brazil, Bolivia. Depends on what version of the story you hear.
Lets start out by dividing the lands in two areas. Highlands and low lands.
The high lands were inhabited by many groups of natives, some sharing the same language Quechua and others Aymara. The Inca empire expanded its control to involve areas outside of Peru and took control of many of these other groups of natives. The most important detail that is often missed is that the Inca ONLY controlled these groups outside their original territory for about 125 years. So to refer as Incas in a generalized fashion is wrong.
The low lands were inhabited by different groups not related to the high land natives, differed by looks and languages. The borders where usually the transition points between mountains and low lands or forest lines to the east of the Andes chain. The incas could not advance due to the low land natives being fierce fighters.

The name Paititi is the spanish version of what they heard. Paititi is not a Quechua or Aymara word, but is sure close to Guarani the language of the low land natives.
Pa'i = priest , ti = Shyness , Ty= accumulation or gathering
In other words Pa'itity = gathering of shy priests ??
could this be why some natives of the low lands speak of the Pa'itity as people and not cities, refer to them as tall bearded men. Sounds awfully familiar to the stories told by the first explorers who entered thru Brazil and described white men in robes. Yes you can find their maps and writings on the internet.
There is an explorer who worked for Smithsonian who did work in Bolivia and currently lives there. Roy Steinbach. Yes you can also find his nature work references on the web. He told me of his findings of ruins and writings he found while doing his work.

So it seems we are dealing with a City of priests and not a gold city, well they might have had riches.... And certainly dont look for it in the high lands.

To Johnnyi.... you were searching for Peter, was his last name Luck?? I know a Peter Luck from Europe who is an expert in mining and gems and currently lives in Santa Cruz Bolivia.

Real de Tayopa; nice to see you posting again my friend.

Sorry to inform that Lamar passed away about a year and half ago, so he will not be posting anymore. He went on a cache expedition with me in Bolivia once and will be remembered dearly.

G

 

[Crow]

Hello Gflores

Thank you for your interesting post.

First of all it is with great shock and Sadness to hear that Lamar haspassed away. As his posts was always informative and always well worth reading. Some times some of us here was not always in agreement with him, however he always put a good a very good case forward in his posts and was indeed a very knowlegeable man. For me and others he will be sadly missed.

In regards to Sacambaya or Plazuela, anything you may be able to add with be greatly apreciated. I sadly did not make it to the site because of food posioning when I was in Boliva. The story is an old favorite of mine as I could never could make my mind up about the truth of the story. Some say it was all a hoax but I am not quite convinced either way. 2 of of my assocites visited the site and from thier comments the shear scale of site is daunting. They explored the square stone heap.

Many made the judgement that the story was all a hoax because Edgar Sanders had only copies of the orginal directions. His directions was via Prodgers who made a handwritten copy of the orginal Corina San Roman had. I always wanted to find the decendants of the San Roman Family to see if they had the orginal document. Also I wanted to confirm the name of the priest that handed it down to the family. But Alas time and other things in life intervened.

As for Patiti I cold not agree more. Anyway please do continue as anything about Sacambaya or Plazuela I find fasinating.

Crow.

 

[gflores71]

If there was a settlement in plazuela and can be proven to be post colonial by the findings, then I would bet the story has some truth to it. I do not think the extent of the excavations and chambers described could be possible as the Jesuits did not have much time to hide things and get out. They are know to have used already available structures like natural caves to hide their treasure. I have been to one of those and where treasure was found and was pretty amazing how they found this natural void in a very hostile hillside. The area of Plazuela IS known to have minerals of value and mining activities, so yes that would be the place for them to work for sure. Remember that they were sent to the outskirts of the colonies, border areas between the Spanish and Portuguese. These other outposts in the mountains where minerals are found had nothing to do with their "religious" missions or border settlements.

I am currently in search of another treasure related to the Jesuits in the border between Santa Cruz and Chuquisaca. I have documentation of their ownership of the land and have proven myself that there is alluvial deposits of gold. I have also seen remnants of their hydraulic work. An english man brought an old book in which the blank pages in the back had hand written information from a Jesuit describing how they hid their loot in caves prior to leaving the area. He searched but found that there were more than 10 caves as described with ancient paintings and left empty handed.

I will be back in a few weeks and will have to dust off my treasure hunting equipment.

G

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hola my friends, Doc Flores is a Surgeon, a lousy pilot, and hoards the Peacock Bass for himself. Aside from that he is an extremely good friend of mine.

Side issue Senor Flores, it is now almost 10 years with absolutely no sign of cancer anywhere, this despite almost a week of intensive tests since they just know it has to be there somewhere. As you know, it had metastasized and all 32 of the lymph glands in my right neck were excised.

If you can get him to talk, I guarantee that since he is an active explorer and treasure hunter, AND articulate, he will keep you just as informed as Crow, my other buddy does.

Salud Flores. I am sorry that you brought bad news about Lamar. Lamar and I were friends although we did have our differences -- of course 'he' was mistaken, naturally.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Crow]

Hello Gflores71

Interesting story I have not heard that treasure story your researching. Please do keep us informed of your progress. I wish you good hunting.

Don Jose your as tough as nails, when the good Lord made you he broke the mold truly one of a kind. I think we would of gotten up to a lot of mischief ,looking for gold in New Guinea. Perhaps our with our heads ending up as trophies on some totem pole in the highlands.

Crow

 

[gflores71]

I have not been doing much flying lately Joseph, but will do so in a couple of months. Cattle branding time so have to make constant flights to the ranch. A little peacock bass fishing also. Dry season or winter time in South America is the best time to cache hunt as vegetation decreases. Will be out there in the field mid June searching for what I have not lost.
Great to hear that the CA is not back Joseph!

Will keep you guys informed if anything interesting comes up in the searches.

G