Incredible sealed wine bottle find

[Bill D. (VA)]

Wish I could say that I found this one. But it was recently discovered by a friend of my buddy Stan in the low tide muck near an early colonial site. It's just an awesome looking specimen. We've been trying to ID the seal but have not had any luck yet. I was hoping that some of you familiar with this sort of thing just might happen to recognize this particular crest or coat of arms. Please chime in if you can help. Thanks!

 

[CRUSADER]

I have justed emailed Kev, who has just joined this site to help another Tneter with Livery IDs. He should be able to help, fingers crossed.

If that was a members find it would be banner, all the way, these are extremely valueable in that condition!

 

[WilliamH]

Wow! I wonder what type of wine it was. And if it is sealed I wonder if it would still be good or just vinegar. Either way that is amazing!

 

[vpnavy]

Until someone pipes in - I searched google and found other bottles with similiar configurations and they were identified as a Onion Wine Bottle. I can't tell on yours but the "crest" seems to be part of the bottle? The one's I found on the net were actually part of the bottle and were circa 1720 and

 

[WilliamH]

The only thing I know is that Port wine is used in them. That shape anyway

 

[SusanMN]

Outstanding!

 

[Wildcat1750]

You don't see something like that every day! What a rare and beautiful find!

 

[surf]

Hey Bill,

There's a beauty. Could you prevail upon Stan's friend to send good photos of the entire bottle, with separate closeups of the lip, seal, and base. A bonus photo would be one with a strong light source behind the glass that might better show color. These are not my field, but I know a guy who is pretty good. The shape looks late 17th, or early 18th Century from here in the cheap seats.

I am reminded that my eyesight is not improving any. The first thing I thought I saw was an ox behind a woven shield, or is that an abacus...

Thanks for showing us. I have been expecting to see similar examples from you and Stan, any day now...

Dr. Richard Kelso at Jamestown, The Corning Museum, and the British Museum might be good resources at which to enquire.

Wine Cellar -- Jamestown Rediscovery​

 

[Bill D. (VA)]

Wow! I wonder what type of wine it was. And if it is sealed I wonder if it would still be good or just vinegar. Either way that is amazing!

I am not referring to the bottle and its contents being sealed. I'm talking about the glass seal that has been affixed to the shoulder of the bottle. Some of the wealthy planters had their initials or family coat of arms stamped onto a glass seal that was attached to the outside of the bottle when they ordered the wine from England.

 

[Don in SJ]

Stan's friend did indeed find a great one. I hope Cru's friend can help on final ID...........

Don

 

[Bill D. (VA)]

Hey Bill,

There's a beauty. Could you prevail upon Stan's friend to send good photos of the entire bottle, with separate closeups of the lip, seal, and base. A bonus photo would be one with a strong light source behind the glass that might better show color. These are not my field, but I know a guy who is pretty good. The shape looks late 17th, or early 18th Century from here in the cheap seats.

I am reminded that my eyesight is not improving any. The first thing I thought I saw was an ox behind a woven shield, or is that an abacus...

Thanks for showing us. I have been expecting to see similar examples from you and Stan, any day now...

Dr. Richard Kelso at Jamestown, The Corning Museum, and the British Museum might be good resources at which to enquire.

Wine Cellar -- Jamestown Rediscovery​

I've already tried to get some additional pics of the bottle but this is all I've been able to get. Also, it's not showing in the pic, but the lip of the bottle has been sheared off. I've tried contacting the Museum of London as well as the College of Arms about helping to ID bottle seals previously. The museum never replied and the college wanted a large fee to perform the research. I hesitate to contact anyone in the archaeological community as I don't want them to cause any problems for Stan's friend. So guess I'll just have to rely on my own research or hope that someone here can help.

At first Stan and I thought this was the exact same seal that both of us had found earlier this year at another early site in the same region. But after closer inspection it was obvious it was a different coat of arms. Here's a pic of that one FYI. I appreciate your comments and assistance.

 

[WilliamH]

I am not referring to the bottle and its contents being sealed. I'm talking about the glass seal that has been affixed to the shoulder of the bottle. Some of the wealthy planters had their initials or family coat of arms stamped onto a glass seal that was attached to the outside of the bottle when they ordered the wine from England.

I see that is cool. I didn't know they did that. I love this site. Learn something new everyday.

 

[RelicMedic]

Amazing! That is by far, the best bottle find I have ever seen, personally. Good luck with the ID

 

[surf]

Hey Bill,

I've been trying to find a website that contained many examples of English Onions, but so far, have not rediscovered it. Heraldry is not my strong suit, either.

"The last object was audited by Tuesday volunteers Sunny & Sue during week 7. From High Street Brentford, this ‘Griffin’ Bottle Seal is a decorative piece of glass with the seal (or ‘prunt’) dating it as a post-medieval (1650-1850) wine bottle. Seals are fairly common – the pad of glass was imprinted with a device when hot, and reveals the owner of a tavern through initials or tavern sign. This one has been interpreted as a griffin – perhaps the Griffin pub was a ‘local’ in Brentford, or maybe the wine came from further afield. Unfortunately no encyclopaedic catalogue exits for London bottle seals, so no comparative example has been discovered." Inside the Museum of London » Adam Corsini

 

[grasshopper]

that is an amazing recovery. I hope to see this get ID'd!!!

 

[HutSiteDigger]

I hesitate to contact anyone in the archaeological community as I don't want them to cause any problems for Stan's friend. So guess I'll just have to rely on my own research or hope that someone here can help.

View attachment 781171

Yah that kinda sucks right there most archaeologist depts. won't respond back too you unless you are another archaeologist! Im sure the large fee was there way of telling you too go away! Pretty amazing find there! I just dont know about this bottle seal if it could date too colonial or alittle post colonial! Hope it can get IDed

 

[Zodiacdiverdave]

Bill that's an incredibly stunning find, I have a feeling in my bones that I will have mine this year. I just hope it is in as good of shape and comes with a seal when I bring it up. I will see if I can find anything on the seal when I have a little more time.
ZDD

 

[sscindercoop]

Amazing!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[VERMONTIS]

Colonial glass rules!!! Its all in the seal...The date , the maker and where it was made =ED

 

[Zodiacdiverdave]

Bill your friends crest may possibly be from the Burgess family. I will see if I can get any more info but it is a possible lead.
http://www.houseofnames.com/burgess-family-crest

If this is the case then check out this on Waki.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Burgesses

ZDD