indian artifacts

[hmmm]

I posted the man on the moon glass artifact,
i went back and talked to the elder who lives on the site . she said it is indian, we then found a odd lead tool and a very odd thing, any idea what it is.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Here are some Moonstone faces. They are advertised as Victorian-style gems. http://www.stachurawholesalegemstones.com/view/22/46/

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Im not well versed on Indian relics so Im trying to use common sense. It appears that the picture of the face you posted is rock and not glass and thin copper like the find in question. Just because its a NW Indian or Incan face doesnt mean its Indian.

As far as the fire starter, I would like to learn how it works. Can you explain or post the link? It looks like knapped flint.


Was the monofiliment line found with the beads in reply #22?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Hes is rock also,red carnelian .The fire deal you just put your dry goods in the hole,it helps shelters the wind, strike something on it to make a spark.Thats why hes is made of pyrite (Fire rock) mine is flint for spark. Fishing line the only way to keep up with the small beads -put them on fishing line......Goodluck at the spot,and many more victorian finds

Can I read the link for the fire starter please? Call me slow but I dont understand the reasoning for the knapped edges to start a fire with your explanation.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I would just search victorian!!!!!!!!!!

This is why you aggravate people Relicdude. You do it time and time over and again. You answer only the questions that you feel like. Why dont you just post the link as I requested? Am I out of line for asking? We are here to share information not to push a certain agenda or to rewrite history.

Im just trying to help hmm and the lady with the finds ,i have to go to work ..But im with you guys on the victorian

Thanks for the link.

 

[hmmm]

I will try answer the questions, as for the face, i am with you guys "victorian". but because of my location and other peoples finds i cant rule anything out. i know of many indians middens that have trade beads , chinese coins from the "1400's," japanese coins from the "1600's" and even english [drake] coins from the "1500's" in the dirt. the beads i found where found in a burnt layer, under 10 inches of dirt, thats why they look so new, i put the fishing line on it.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Im sorry bigC ,if i get some more free time i will try and find it again...

Thanks. Its always best to post the link or the source with the artifact unless it is your own pic. In this case you have found an interesting rock artifact online with a hole, titled "fire starter" but without any other information to go with it. I would like to read it.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

You can search your history top left corner of your screen down arrow of recent pages then click on history and today to find your lost "fire starter" link.

 

[hmmm]

I would just search victorian!!!!!!!!!!

the question i would ask is , what else did you find and how deep.
with out a doubt there is victorian , but in the layers above there is stuff form the entire 1900's and stories about colonists from the mid 1800's. victorians ?
when i dig in a possible multie layerd area, meaning, 1920, 1860, 1735, 1622 , 1565, 1408, and older, i do the scrape thing the archeologists do. big a layer 1 inch at a time. for most detectorists it does not readly apply.
only diferance between me and the phd is, my hole is 4 inches wide, not 10 feet. with solstice sites dating thousands of years in the area, i will not rule out inca. if you can build a pyramid you can build a boat.
i forgot something, she said there was fishing lead on the site befor she moved there , i threw these in the pack and I figured they where from the mid 1900's, she said "no "
i have a question, with this evidance i have presented, what date was the victorian imigrants living here?. it just told me 3 people have replied. i admit it took me about 2 hours to do this post.

 

[hmmm]

Hes is rock also,red carnelian .The fire deal you just put your dry goods in the hole,it helps shelters the wind, strike something  on it to make a spark.Thats why hes is made of pyrite (Fire rock) mine  is flint for spark. Fishing line the only way to keep up with  the small beads -put them on fishing line......Goodluck at the spot,and many more victorian finds

That has been my point. Any similarities are superficial.




You are calling this "moon-face" red carnelian, when it actually shows every sign of being glass. The example you pictured was made of stone.

The "arrowhead-firestarter" with the hole in the middle is unlike anything ever made, in fact, it reminds me more of one of those Sci-Fi sex symbols- very exaggerated and campy.

I had mentioned a long time ago that parts of your assemblage looked like they could be trade goods. You are quickly muddying those waters with introducing all of these loopy hypotheses, and by misinterpreting your collection. Pretty soon (like a year ago) we will have no clue what we are looking at anymore, except that it is not a Mayan, or Viking, or Incan outpost in the Pacific Northwest.

I will tell you what, friend-

I do know a thing or two about artifacts. In fact, I know a lot about them.

If I keep seeing trade goods from a Northwestern site showing up in your posts, and I see any more information posted about you digging, and claiming it is "Incan", I will contact some people for you who can help you, and WILL know what they are doing. I am no longer interested in watching that particular site destroyed by you, without your taking proper steps to educate yourself about your finds, and to learn to interpret the history you are recovering correctly. 

Basically I am tired of watching you plow through a Historic Indian camp, and then trying to teach people on the internet about bad recovery, bad identification, and bad form in general. You are starting to look like a "looter".

Thanks.

plehbah ,  is it me you are calling me a looter.  if it is, i am detecting around the septic pipe on the beach infront of 2 modern houses. if there was a indian out post it is under the houses. i do know for sure, the loggers who where logging here in the 1860's where all killed by the the first nation, but i was told there where chinese loggers. evidance is suggesting _________. i guess the big  question hear is is it ethical for me to keep digging in the muck.?
i should tell you guys, i am ready to give up on history,somttimes  its just not worth it.
i just remembered , i went home and got the second , broken, glass artifact. which could be melted rock. ill take a close up of its construction, you will see why i say"glass."

 

[IronSpike]

Another possibility.

 

[RELICDUDE07]

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

i have no idea what the peice with the hole is, its not lead, looks more like a mix of copper and pyrite, its heavy.
today i was asked what the hairs on it where. i said "lint" till i looked at it. have a look, the magnification is very strong .

Thinking about it, the item looks very old but I wonder how long animal hairs will last underground?

 

[hmmm]

Those hairs are interesting. Maybe it was used to scrape or prepare hides somehow. Is it sharp?

the hairs are odd , all the same color , gold and very fine. the edge of the bottom is sharp.
the pictures below are of the other glass thing, its broken but you can clearly see its construction. it is glass, but not saying it is not melted carnelian . definitly melted into a mold though.
.

 

[Montana Jim]

Those "hairs" look synthetic.

This North Eastern Canadian site is only spectulatively historic if I remember... every atempt to get a real archie out there proved fruitless and negative?

Anyway... I wanted to ask... did you find the red glass moon face with/along side the stamped brass ring? Why are we assuming it's from the same peice?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

The "arrowhead-firestarter" with the hole in the middle is unlike anything ever made, in fact, it reminds me more of one of those Sci-Fi sex symbols- very exaggerated and campy.

Did you find the link yet?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

The moon face with the copper ring is also a fire starter. Look its says so under the pic!

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I see that big C. His is a sun god,thats why its red....Also look up the meaning of inca?I just save pictures and not the links ,and i clear my history alot to keep my computer fast .I can not find the link...

OK I understand. Too bad because it might have helped solve this. I just dont understand the sharp edges. It would be for cutting or skinning not firemaking. Probably a fantasy piece made by a modern knapper. I searched for 2 hours and cant find your link.

BTW Here is the link on the Man in the Moon ring. Doesnt say much.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/seasidestudio/3333860132/

 

[Tnmountains]

The "arrowhead-firestarter" with the hole in the middle is unlike anything ever made, in fact, it reminds me more of one of those Sci-Fi sex symbols- very exaggerated and campy.

The "arrowhead-firestarter" with the hole in the middle is unlike anything ever made, in fact, it reminds me more of one of those Sci-Fi sex symbols- very exaggerated and campy.



Hmmm

Put the hmmmm Indian fire starter over in American Indian artifacts,lol. If you really want to know. From the sounds of this post you might want to get some proffesional help in your finds before you destroy the trade site with speculation. No way anything I have seen is S.American. No moon faces.It all looks like fur trade era with modern mixed in. When you find gold beads like these think S.American and if in the South east maybe Cherokee but very doubtful. Just wanted to show some s.american real gold beads hehe.
Cheers
TnMountains

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Yes Tnmountains, this thread has been destroyed with runaway unsubstantiated speculation and misinformation. Thank goodness most of it has been deleted because it was embarrassing to say the least.

 

[Tnmountains]

Yes Tnmountains, this thread has been destroyed with runaway unsubstantiated speculation. Thank goodness most of it has been deleted because it was embarrassing to say the least.

We are pretty calm in the Indiand artifact section. Thing is if you are wrong over there you are corrected. You welcome the correction because that is when you gather new knowledge and can move forward. Interesting post and I hope that the poster takes to heart some well given advice and in time comes back to us with what he has learned on his most interesting finds.
Best wishes in a hopefully new journey of knowledge.

TnMountains