Indian Burial

[irishmick]

Well I normally just lurk on here but I found this today off of the old minnesota survey maps and couldn't resist posting. I assure all who would believe otherwise that I have no intent to go digging here. It's all privately owned now anyways. But I am trying to find where their village was located nearby. I'm thinking what within 20 miles? Less? Any thoughts anyone?

 

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[DJ_Quinn]

Irishmick, don't you know it's bad luck to disturb an Indian burriel site? Seriously, you could probably research it at the local library, I don't know what kind of artifacts could have been included in the sites.

 

[Dave45]

thats grave robbing unless your a state archie then its OK

 

[bootybay]

He said he wasn't digging in the burial area, looking for the village area is what hes looking for..

 

[irishmick]

Thanks BootyBay. I mean geez I figured this would be enough: "I assure all who would believe otherwise that I have no intent to go digging here" to not get dropkicked like so many do on here...

I found the reference to the burial site and I'm just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on how close a village would normally be to something like this. I've looked at "most" of the old survey maps within about 20-25 miles but haven't located any notations as to an indian village. There is a cabin about 2-3 miles to the northwest titled Ms. Birdie Prey, but other than that nothing for several miles around.
Thanks.

 

[Dave45]

Im sorry I didnt mean anything towards Irish was being sarcastic

 

[bootybay]

Actually the question hes asking is a darn good one that I too out of curosity would like to know... what is the standard or ball park distance a burial ground should be from the Indian village.. see darn good question..

 

[kycanine]

Looking at your old map pic, I would recommend you search near the water, likely around any bends in the water bank. Villages in my area (KY) were often located very near a river, and usually in a large bend. This afforded the village with easily accessed water and fishing, and also provided a little more protection from enemy attacks. I am by no means an expert , but that's from my personal experience. Best of luck to you.

 

[irishmick]

kycanine, do you think it would be on the same body of water/river or not that I know anything, but since their burial grounds were here would this one be considered sacred and wouldn't have been used as a living area?

No biggee Dave. Just see a lot of bashing on here and I made sure to put something in to empasize how much I'm NOT going to be digging and wasn't very surprised to see a couple posts entirely contradicting what I had thought was clearly indicated.
Thanks.

 

[irishmick]

and one more thing. I don't know if any of you have looked at old survey maps for your state or even Minnesota's, but after staring wide eyed at 2 1/2 counties worth it is very obvious that all surveyors are not created equal. Some put in every detail, even so far as to indicate a small stand of maples, a 10 foot ledge, etc... whereas others simply mapped the general terrain such as lakes, rivers and swampy areas. Which is why I'm curious on the general distance one would think a village would be. The 2 quads to the west of this one were done by a just get it done surveyor and the one above was done by a surveyor who obviously took pride in his work.
Thanks!

 

[Jeffro]

Thats all well and good, but you really shouldn't be digging in burial mounds.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,47375.0.html

 

[Jeffro]

Seriously though- I wouldn't look much further than a ten mile radius, if that.

 

[irishmick]

lol that thread wanders like a drunk at closing time.

10 miles? That definitely narrows it down or at least it's a starting point. Thanks!

 

[roswellborn]

Would it make a difference as to the burial practices of whatever tribe was there at (or near) the time the map was drawn? I mean, the Seminole might want to live well away from their dead, while the Shawnee might want to be closer to grandaddy. Does that even make sense? (not necessarily Seminole and Shawnee, I just pulled those names out of the air).

If there's high ground near running water, that might be a good place to look, too. High enough to be safe from flash flooding, but close enough to the water that they didn't have to hike for an hour to get to it.

I don't know how much sense this makes, it's been a long day and I'm not at 100%.

Anyway, just my 2¢ worth...

HH
Nan

 

[pegleglooker]

If it's private land you " may " want to let the land owner know of the " possibility " and maybe get a arche involved. If it is what it is, then maybe the local tribe would like to move the grave back to their land. And I'm sure they would surely appreciate that ( it would be GREAT pr ).

just my 2 cents

PLL

 

[Scott (Mich)]

Interesting.

It is possible that the village that used the graveyard was long gone by the time the white people came to mark the location.

I would look for evidence of the village right across the water from the graveyard. I have seen a couple of Indian villages on maps here in Michigan where the village was across the water from the graveyard. Now this may not have any relevance to your area but I thought it may give you an idea where to look.

Another thing I was wondering, would the pre-European Indians really live far from a graveyard that they used? I mean they would have had to do their traveling on foot as they did not have any horses until they were brought in from Europe.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Highmountain]

Other than the Kronks in Texas every tribal campsite I've ever come across demonstrated a healthy respect for rising water. I think you might be able to find some military sketches and possibly even photographs of such places as Sand Creek, Wounded Knee, and the Souxan/Cheyenne camps along the river during the Custer troubles to confirm it, but I'd bet the tribes were camping high enough off the water so's not to have to dry everything out if the water rose unexpectedly during the night.

Tribal burial customs will probably be specific to whatever tribe was in your area. The exception, judging from the middens, was captives and slaves, evidently thrown there with whatever the tribes thought of as garbage. But the fact the site was recognized as a sustained burial ground suggests whatever tribe was using it was around for long periods or that a nomadic tribe suffered a lot of deaths in a short while.

I think in your position I'd make a foray to the local historical society and pick some brains and records to learn whatever's known before trying to do a lot of on the ground work. Then, once the identity of the tribe is known I'd do some websearching to try to find long-time-ago accounts of how they delt with their deceased.

Just the way I'd approach it.

 

[Dave45]

I would think the only way to find out would be to do some legwork, you know where the burial mound is follow the river-stream up and down look just out of the flood plain, in my experience where two streams come together is ideal. Look for burnt rock-midden rock and flint shards, here in Texas thats the best indicator.
Dave

 

[irishmick]

Thanks everyone. Good advice all.

 

[irishmick]

Well I found one village about 35 miles away. Now just to get there ;o)