Indian massacre of miners working in 1823

ECS said:
The population of 1820 St Louis was 10,049 and at that time a frontier fur trading town.
The Bank of St Louis was formed in 1816 by fur traders Augustre Chouteau, Manuel Lisa, Sylvestre Labadie who were fur traders and accepted furs as collateral.
The stores, like Kennerly's Mercantile (Kennerly's were related to Risqué, Ward, and Hutter) sold provisions for the hunters and trappers, and jewels were not an item that had much use in a frontier town.
So the question is who had a $13,000 inventory of jewels at hand that could have been traded for silver?
That is one item in the Beale narrative among others concerning the western portion of the tale that raises questions, and is the reason why the April 16, 1879 Lynchburg Virginian news article concerning Robert O Willis's $65,000 treasure of gold, silver, and jewelry discovered in a cave stands out as the literary source for the Beale treasure inventory.
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St Louis 1818-1820 couldn't have held a large amount of jewels, but a cave could have?
 

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Rebel - KGC said:
True... HOWEVER! "Traders" from New France (Canada) could...
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ECS seems to think a city in 1818-1820 couldn't have had people, or companies, with lots of jewels, but a cave could hold a large amount of jewels. Cities were, and are, a place for trade.
 

In 1820, $13,000 have the equivalent value of $340,000, silver was priced at $15.60 per lb or $1.30 per oz, which would take about 850 lbs of refined silver for an even value trade. The amount of silver ore?
After the PANIC OF 1819, several banks and businesses failed in St Louis, and the recovery began to occur in 1828, when new businesses entered St Louis, including the first jeweler.
Since the 1820's St Louis economy was based and dominated by the fur trade and the provisions required for that endeavor, the question remains, who had $13,000 worth of jewels to trade in this small population of 10,049?
 

ECS said:
In 1820, $13,000 have the equivalent value of $340,000, silver was priced at $15.60 per lb or $1.30 per oz, which would take about 850 lbs of refined silver for an even value trade. The amount of silver ore?
After the PANIC OF 1819, several banks and businesses failed in St Louis, and the recovery began to occur in 1828, when new businesses entered St Louis, including the first jeweler.
Since the 1820's St Louis economy was based and dominated by the fur trade and the provisions required for that endeavor, the question remains, who had $13,000 worth of jewels to trade in this small population of 10,049?
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Again, the trade didn't have to be for silver only, or even for silver at all. The words "FOR SILVER" is not in the codes, it was added by the author in 1885. But you fail to see the point of WHY a portion of the treasure was said to have been traded. They traded to save transportation. Now what is that saying? It's saying that by doing this trade they didn't have to carry so much weight/bulk across the country to Virginia. This, in turn, means that whatever they traded for the jewels would have been of great weight/bulk. And all of this means that your argument supports the treasure story.
 

ECS said:
...who had $13,000 worth of jewels to trade in this small population of 10,049?
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I don't know who they were. I don't even know IF they were.
Now my question. Who had jewels, gold, and silver to put in that cave you talk about?
 

According to the April 16, 1879 news article edition of THE LYNCHBURG VIRGINIAN at which John William Sherman was sub-editor, Robert O Willis of Kentucky.
 

ECS said:
According to the April 16, 1879 news article edition of THE LYNCHBURG VIRGINIAN at which John William Sherman was sub-editor, Robert O Willis of Kentucky.
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Do you have to know where something comes from in order for it to exist?
 

Steamboats first arrived in St. Louis in 1818, improving connections with New Orleans and eastern markets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Louis

The deposit that had the jewels was deposited in December 1821, so the trade in St Louis would have happened in 1821. By this time, steamboats had been coming into St Louis for 3 years, improving connections with New Orleans, and with eastern MARKETS.
 

Old Silver said:
Steamboats first arrived in St. Louis in 1818, improving connections with New Orleans and eastern markets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Louis



The deposit that had the jewels was deposited in December 1821, so the trade in St Louis would have happened in 1821. By this time, steamboats had been coming into St Louis for 3 years.
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There were at least 40 or more people in St. Louis that could have exchanged the Jewels for the silver. Most likely it was William Clark or the Kennerly across the street from the Governor's House. Then there were the rich Chateau brothers Along with four large Jewelry Stores that would love to have had the raw silver for more jewelry. There could have been barons, pirates or anyone else in St. Louis that could have made the exchange but most likely the candidate, William Clark.
 

William Clark married Julia Hancock, the niece of both James Beverly Risqué and the Kennerly brothers, and of course the cause of the duel between Risqué and Beale- Buford, Ward Hutter, Otey, Hancock, Mitchell, and Sherman, somehow it always comes back to that extended family bloodline.
 

ECS said:
William Clark married Julia Hancock, the niece of both James Beverly Risqué and the Kennerly brothers, and of course the cause of the duel between Risqué and Beale- Buford, Ward Hutter, Otey, Hancock, Mitchell, and Sherman, somehow it always comes back to that extended family bloodline.
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Notice SEVERAL things, here... Julia HANCOCK; wife of James Beverly Risque was a HANCOCK; a signer of the Declaration of Independence was... JOHN HANCOCK! YOU figure it out...
 

ECS said:
William Clark married Julia Hancock, the niece of both James Beverly Risqué and the Kennerly brothers, and of course the cause of the duel between Risqué and Beale- Buford, Ward Hutter, Otey, Hancock, Mitchell, and Sherman, somehow it always comes back to that extended family bloodline.
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If you check into that extended bloodline you will find that all members of those family groups were Indian negotiators out west. Some of them laid out the towns and sold the property. They could have made the total of $750,000 with digging or mining for it. Samuel Beale and others were land speculators. Also I have a newspaper earlier than the 1821 newspaper that had Thomas Beale a letter to pick up--------he had his first letter to pick up in 1818 and he picked it up that Fall on his way to Bedford County. The name listed was "Thomas J. Bell" There was also a "George Bell" out that way at that time. I do not know if the spelling is correct or that is their exact names. But there is the "Thomas J." to check out. He passed through in the Fall of 1818 and picked his letter up and he passed through there in 1821 and picked his letter up. So he should be our man if we can only find out who he is exactly?
 

Just for an example:

1. 50 men work a gold/silver mine in 1750. The only tools they use are picks, shovels, hammers, etc. No modern equipment. They work for 1 full year.

2. 50 men work a gold/silver mine in 1950. The only tools they use are picks, shovels, hammers, etc. No modern equipment. They work for 1 full year.

Which group of men could mine more gold/silver?
 

ECS said:
In 1820, $13,000 have the equivalent value of $340,000, silver was priced at $15.60 per lb or $1.30 per oz, which would take about 850 lbs of refined silver for an even value trade. The amount of silver ore?
After the PANIC OF 1819, several banks and businesses failed in St Louis, and the recovery began to occur in 1828, when new businesses entered St Louis, including the first jeweler.
Since the 1820's St Louis economy was based and dominated by the fur trade and the provisions required for that endeavor, the question remains, who had $13,000 worth of jewels to trade in this small population of 10,049?
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Steamboat from St Louis to New Orleans was about two weeks . Someone from New Orleans could come up and traded .
 

ECS said:
It does not state that in the 1885 Beale Papers.
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Were did you buy gas today, if you buy gas for your car it comes from rig somewhere originally but it may have passed many hands before it got to the place were you buy it . If jewels were not something found out west, they were shipped in to St Louis from New Orleans on the return boat shipping furs and cotton to New Orleans, they had to ship something back to St Louis from that trip to New Orleans ! :thumbsup:
 

It also doesn't say that the story is a dime novel.
 

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