Indian River chart circa 1878 shows "snag" almost directly behind Bonsteel Park

[Jolly Mon]

Indian River chart circa 1878 shows "snag" almost directly behind Bonsteel Park

Click to enlarge.


Of course it could be anything.
This is a fraction of a chart which shows many miles of the Indian River Lagoon system circa 1878.
The only "snag" I could find on the entire chart was this one.
What a coincidence it would be almost directly behind Half-Reale Beach.

 

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[FindSomeGold]

Interesting observation. It looks like the coastline of the Intracoastal in that spot has changed some since then too - probably due to construction. The "snag", or anything in the area for that matter, is not noted on NOAA charts either (attached), which you'd probably already looked at. I also looked at Bing and Google Maps and the wind chop makes it difficult to get any detail from the aerials. Might be worth a little exploration in a kayak, waders, or on a stand-up board with a detector?

 

[Southern_Digger]

Simply put--a snag in a navigable riverboat course was often caused by submerged or partially submerged vegetation--most often, tree trunks. If they could not be removed manually; and, if they could not be removed by a steam-powered dredge boat; or, if these cannot be moved from the channel naturally--by tidal currents; then, at least, eventually, it would disintegrate. Hence, not on modern channel maps. Notably, regarding steam powered dredges ... these were used in Florida beginning in the late 1830's to open a navigable water route from Volusia. Are you suggesting the snag may have been caused by a shipwreck that washed across the bar? If so, maybe not so far fetched in some lower natural elevations. In pre-dredging days, the backwater was fresh and remained so until flooding from the interior forced it over the bar and out to sea, thus causing seasonal Inlets--often opening and closing, somewhat like the old Haulover in Northern Palm Beach County. Miami River was the source of fresh water for Spanish Vessels. Fresh water could be obtained in Biscayne Bay off the mouth of the river as it was spilling out from the back-country--hence, it was called the Devil's Punchbowl. However, in the area of Bonsteed Park--bluff is way too high for a ship to wash over from the ocean. Just my thoughts...

 

[Jolly Mon]

Simply put--a snag in a navigable riverboat course was often caused by submerged or partially submerged vegetation--most often, tree trunks. If they could not be removed manually; and, if they could not be removed by a steam-powered dredge boat; or, if these cannot be moved from the channel naturally--by tidal currents; then, at least, eventually, it would disintegrate. Hence, not on modern channel maps. Notably, regarding steam powered dredges ... these were used in Florida beginning in the late 1830's to open a navigable water route from Volusia. Are you suggesting the snag may have been caused by a shipwreck that washed across the bar? If so, maybe not so far fetched in some lower natural elevations. In pre-dredging days, the backwater was fresh and remained so until flooding from the interior forced it over the bar and out to sea, thus causing seasonal Inlets--often opening and closing, somewhat like the old Haulover in Northern Palm Beach County. Miami River was the source of fresh water for Spanish Vessels. Fresh water could be obtained in Biscayne Bay off the mouth of the river as it was spilling out from the back-country--hence, it was called the Devil's Punchbowl. However, in the area of Bonsteed Park--bluff is way too high for a ship to wash over from the ocean. Just my thoughts...

An entire ship wash over?---probably not, but not impossible. A galleon superstructure, though, could easily have done it, assuming even a fairly moderate storm surge. There are several areas in the vicinity of Pepper Cove where the maximum elevation is 10 to 12 feet. How high in 1715 ? No one knows for sure.

I just found it somewhat remarkable that in the entire Indian River Lagoon system shown on the chart, there is exactly one "snag" listed. There must have been many "snags", of course. Probably hundreds. This one was big enough to get noticed.

Is this "snag" associated with the 1715 Fleet disaster or the subsequent salvage of the fleet ? Probably not. But it is surely not impossible.

Whatever it was probably did disintegrate, though. It is still charted in 1929, but gone by 1957.

 

[hobbit]

I wonder how many people have actually checked this lead out in the past ?

 

[Bum Luck]

There's old local rumors on Padre Island of ship ribs sticking out of the sand back in the dunes. This is before anyone thought about what those ships may have been carrying.

 

[FindSomeGold]

Is Padre Island in Florida? I'm not familiar with it and a quick Google Search didn't turn up anything.

 

[Darren in NC]

Padre Island is off the coast of Texas.

 

[FindSomeGold]

I have heard of P.I., TX. So how the heck was it relevant to this thread?! haha...

 

[Diver_Down]

I have heard of P.I., TX. So how the heck was it relevant to this thread?! haha...

The point of the Padre Island reference is that ships can indeed travel greater distances and "make it over the dune". A wreck here in St. Augustine was discovered a couple of years ago after coastal storm erosion. The ships timbers are on the Bay side of Anastasia Island on dry ground. Barrier islands are dynamic as the sands shift over time.

 

[Bum Luck]

The point of the Padre Island reference is that ships can indeed travel greater distances and "make it over the dune". A wreck here in St. Augustine was discovered a couple of years ago after coastal storm erosion. The ships timbers are on the Bay side of Anastasia Island on dry ground. Barrier islands are dynamic as the sands shift over time.

Exactly.

I don't know of any instance of this in Florida, so I didn't mention it, but I consider my sources for Padre as reliable.

 

[treshuntintom]

Morning all,hey Bum Luck,Bill Mahan's"Padre Island,Treasure Kingdom of the world"has picture of such a wreck in the book.

 

[Bum Luck]

Morning all,hey Bum Luck,Bill Mahan's"Padre Island,Treasure Kingdom of the world"has picture of such a wreck in the book.

Aha!

Why him, and not me, is what I'd like to know. . . . . .

 

[FindSomeGold]

Here's a picture of ship's ribs in the dunes, and a story about Mahan: Padre Island full of more tales of buried treasure than found treasure » Corpus Christi Caller-Times

 

[hobbit]

Here's a picture of ship's ribs in the dunes, and a story about Mahan: Padre Island full of more tales of buried treasure than found treasure » Corpus Christi Caller-Times

That link makes me want to hit the beach with one of my old D-Tex detectors and work the wet sand in TR. LOL. I got my first metal detector for Christmas in 1975 because of a book called "Treasure Hunter's Digest" which featured Mahan prominently. It was reading about his discoveries that made me want to start metal detecting.

 

[Jolly Mon]

I didn't realize no ballast pile or cannon have ever been found at the "Chuck's Steakhouse" wreck site.

 

[PhipsFolly]

Not entirely true about no ballast or wreckage at Bonsteel area...

 

[Jolly Mon]

Not entirely true about no ballast or wreckage at Bonsteel area...

Tell us more, Phipps. I am really curious about this wreck site...

 

[PhipsFolly]

I had recovered several rather large "egg" ballast stones and two nice timber sections that became exposed on the beach... one timber with three iron spikes in it and one with a wooden "tree nail" running through it... Definitely period correct material)... Along with the usual 1/2'ers, 1's and a few 8 reales over the years from the beach in this area... Never searched area in the water just offshore from where these items were...

 

[PhipsFolly]

Obviously not going to divulge specifics with regards to where on the beach these materials were either uncovered and/or washed ashore but I am fairly convinced that there should be some wreck materials in the water... Or Perhaps up under the beach... Judging from the size of the ballast stones and timbers, I would say a fairly large vessel... Just my two cents...