Interesting Story of Frank Fish

[russau]

Here is picture of Frank Fish below.

For those who grew up in Amador City, the memory of Fish creaking up and down planks of the jagged boardwalk, a double-barrel shotgun clasped in his battered, puffy knuckles, still invokes midnight images and a few disturbing questions. Such recollections of Fish’s “night patrols,” his human skulls, his pet rattlesnakes, are true and can be verified through photographs of him that still exist. Nevertheless, the photos play into the treasure hunter’s larger-than-life reputation, which now makes it difficult to separate fact from fiction; an issue that is critical to studying the question of whether his shocking death on April 7, 1963 was the result of suicide or undetected murder.

Fish was close with Amador City personalities John Moore and James Jippett. From them and others we know that he claimed to possess gold relics excavated from Costa Rica and one of two existing copies of the Peralta Map, which the international treasure hunting community felt was connected to the Lost Dutchman’s Mine in the Superstition Mountains of Arizona. Fish always carried a silver handgun, vaguely referencing unidentified people he feared were out to take his map and artifacts.

Fish’s behavior played out over time as a human enigma. But what is verifiable about Frank Lawrence Fish? He hailed from Oklahoma and was the brother of Walter J. Fish and the father of John Fish. Existing photographs prove at least some of Fish’s claims about traveling throughout the western United States and countries in Central America. The photos also appear to establish that Fish owned an assortment of Mayan and American Indian jewelry and artifacts

Numerous articles were written about Fish during the 1950s in a variety of publications, though most pieces were authored by the same journalist: Lieutenant Harry E. Rieseberg. The lieutenant was an expert at deep-sea salvage and underwater treasure recovery. He was also a great admirer of Fish’s terrestrial relic sleuthing. Rieseberg wrote 30 different news stories about Fish in one year alone, a shotgun exposure that helped “Buried Treasure and Lost Mines” sell thousands of copies and attract some 38,000 visitors to Amador City in 1961."

Note: he died on April 8, 1963 from a suspicious gun shot wound.

View attachment 2210543

Here is his father below. Who Died in 1930

View attachment 2210545

Here is franks mother who died in 1924.

View attachment 2210546

Franks older brother Walter John Fish

Birth 3 Jul 1897 Death 31 Mar 1971 (aged 73)
Burial Geary Cemetery Geary, Blaine County, Oklahoma, USA.

Franks son he was apparent estranged from him John Wendell Fish pictured below born 1930 Died 2008. Could not add anything in regards to his fathers death.

View attachment 2210547

Name John Wendell Fish
Social Security Number 557-34-6007
Birth Date 26 Mar. 1930
Issue year Before 1951
Issue State California
Last Residence 93446, Paso Robles, San Luis Obispo, California, USA
Last Benefit 93446, Paso Robles, San Luis Obispo, California, USA
Death Date 17 May 2008


So the mystery remains did frank fish kill himself or was he murdered?


Crow

Great story and follow up info BUT posting his SSN with other data isn't ! It can allow jerks to steal from us all ! BUT again it's a great story !

 

[Crow]

Great story and follow up info BUT posting his SSN with other data isn't ! It can allow jerks to steal from us all ! BUT again it's a great story !

my apologies Point taken. Thanks for your concern. I will refrain from posting those details in the future. I did not know the value of data from dead people well over 100 would be useful. But understand with living people it would breach of piracy laws.

Yes it is for them Frank Fish was interesting character. He was in some respect a victim of his own success and failures. I think there was a lot of show man in his life that helped his museum succeed but in twist of fate the success he had become or perceived he had become the more he not be away from the museum. That and declining health.

Personally I suspect his successful discoveries had nothing to do with his book or connected the Superstitions. From what i read f Frank Fish book seem generic stories. Dead Men Do Tell Tales", by the late Lake Erie Schaefer seems to make converted claims about the alleged Peralta map. There are some claims just not possible.

Crow

 

[sdcfia]

Fish's Buried Treasure and Lost Mines (cover shown in Post#12) is a pretty comprehensive collection of Southwest treasure tales, mostly in alleged California desert locations. The stories are brief, fairly well detailed and presumably researched by Fish himself. Are the stories authentic? Who knows? Same can be asked about all treasure stories - famous and obscure. Some of the 93 tales in this book are marked "Found". Found by whom - Fish? Someone else?

For me it's a nostalgic collectable from the early days of treasure magazines and metal detectors. And yeah, thought provoking too. Here's the table of contents:

 

[achanceforgold]

Super Fantastic Research Mr. Crow

 

[oldtimetreasurelore]

Being Totally Anal Old Crow tried to dig deeper. ( Pardon The Pun ) To substantiate as much of the mans past as possible via independent sources. Frank Lawrence Fish allegedly born in 1900 died 1963? or 1965?

I found no birth record. No record of him being in any census in 1910, 1920, 1930, 1940, 1950. no voter registrations records No marriage record. No pass port application. No border crossing records. The only Frank Fish I found was born in 1903 and died in 1943 a forestry ranger working for the government recorded on census in 1930 and 1940.

While I cannot say for definite. I am at a loss he seem like ghost. An intriguing fellow.

Crow

Born in Oklahoma, around ADA, if I recall correctly, we visited the cemetery many years ago. , look for parents grave on find a grave, Lots of research done on the mystery, If you can locate a copy of his son's book, good study of Frank. I believe he may have found something he shouldn't have, There are those out there that protect some of the big treasure depositories....of which there are many!
the old guy who's been there and done that

 

[OldDarrell7]

Sadly I agree I think you pretty much on the money there. I suspect things have been attributed to him out of convenience rather than reality.

Crow

Well, Frank was a Aztec Treasure Hunter by all means and had discovered so out of this world a connection to the Aztecs of all places in the Western Corner of the Mohave Desert at Black Mountain in Kern County of California. He had a competitor that also had the Information and as I firmly believe was either directly or in-directly responsible for his Murder. He has passed away years ago but if you do your diligence in research you're going to come up with some surprising results, his name is Alex Apostolides that held the position of Chief or Head of the Archaeological area that did all of the Surveys in the El Paso Mountain Range of Black Mountain, Last Chance Canyon and other areas attached to the vicinity that was Hosted by the U.S. Government and by the University of Southern California or UCLA. As a matter of Fact to be found on the Internet, the Ancient City of Town sometimes referred as a Village was initially found by prospectors of the 1880's. In November of 1897, these prospectors took the then famous "CALL NEWSPAPER" of San Francisco there of which had mounted 2 expeditions to the site which sparked the Archaeologists concern. Documents filed within the National Registry of the National Park Service Confirm the connection to this site to the remains and buildings of Ancient Arizona and Mexico. A site that was one of Frank's Playground, like "Robbers Roost", his " Smokey Nugget Gold Claim", etc.. I wrote a book about this that's on Amazon, yet it has gone mostly unnoticed. Best, Darrell

 

[Crow]

Hello Darrell.

Thank you for information and clarifying a few things. And you have definitely located the location of robbers roost.

Here is some pictures of Robbers roost. Near freeman junction as per claims of buried treasure near freeman junction.

As per fish's claims in his book.

Robbers roost seen from the highway 6

Seen from 178

Frank Fishes map below.

So I understand the site in question. You can deferentially see a prominent lank mark to hide treasure. And Bickel camp nearby in black mountain. And Alex ApostolidesI below with Bickel,

Bickel camp below.

Alex ApostolidesI was in the area of research and it it possible they could of crossed paths. As fish mention treasure in Lost chance canyon. But what year did Alex ApostolidesI come onto the scene. Was he first there in the early 1960s? or just in 1970s?

Here is picture of his earlier years.

Crow

 

[Crow]

At Black Mountain in Kern County of California. He had a competitor that also had the Information and as I firmly believe was either directly or in-directly responsible for his Murder.

An interesting hypothesis. While it is true Both Frank fish and Alex ApostolidesI both had interest in lost chance canyon. Where they in the same area pre1963? And who was this alleged female caller on the night Frank Fish allegedly committed suicide?

It appears William Elmore Gann in his book claims Working local surveys around Owens Lake and Bishop, in fact, was how Alex came to meet Bickel. He had graduated from New Mexico’s Hiler School of Art, and did graduate work in archeology at UCLA, where he taught field techniques. Working the El Paso Wilderness, he eventually stumbled upon Last Chance Canyon in 1958.

So we can conclude it is quite possible that Both Frank fish and Alex ApostolidesI crossed paths.

I recall it Frank Fish Had alleged Aztec artifacts but what if they was misidentified and was sourced from lost chance canyon. and was not actually Aztec as assumed by everyone to Aztec? But of the ancient ancient Kawaiisu tribe.

Before European contact, the Kawaiisu lived in hundreds of permanent winter villages of 60 to 100 people. They often divided into smaller groups during the warmer months of the year to harvest plants in the mountains and deserts. They hunted animals and fished for food and raw materials. They were known for their mining and trading of obsidian throughout the western Americas and deep into Mexico. They were also known for building sturdy tulle boats used for fishing and transportation. Some believe they were divided in two regional groups: the "Desert Kawaiisu" and the "Mountain Kawaiisu".

It would not be hard to see a conflict of interest a self rigorous archeologists and self proclaimed treasure hunter coming to blows. Maybe Frank Fish had taken Kawaiisu artifacts mistakenly believed to be Aztec and the frantic late night call was from one of the women followers perhaps information that Alex ApostolidesI or others was intent on steal artifact backs he had taken off tribal land or some how prosecute him through the courts. Kawaiisu artifacts. The baskets were weaved in complex patterns and styles unique to the Tribe and are displayed at major museums across the US . The baskets had up to 1,200 stiches per square inch. They sell for over $100,000 in todays native art market.

And that might inadvertently of be in part triggered Frank Fish to kill himself.


Crow

 

[Crow]

Alex ApostolidesI wife Patti had long association with Bickel camp . there are suggestion that Alex had habit of getting off his face with Datura and weed.

Back in 60's several people was using Bickel camp to experiment in hallucinogenics. Datura flowers have been used for many reasons, often tied to cultural or spiritual practices. Indigenous cultures in the Americas, India, and Europe, have used Datura in religious rituals or shamanic ceremonies. In these settings, it was believed the plant may help people communicate with spirits, enter altered states of consciousness, or gain special visions.

More recently, Datura has been used recreation-ally by people seeking its hallucinogenic effects. Some individuals experiment with the plant to experience intense, dream-like hallucinations. The line between a desired experience and a life-threatening reaction is thin. Many people who use Datura for its mind-altering effects end up in hospitals with severe poisoning symptoms, and some even die from overdose

Was Walt Biknel into this? Probably not but people stayed with him was. At least to early 70s perhaps even earlier. Even the 60's but what was happening there in 1963?

Was the drug use there have a connection to Fish's death? There is not enough proof at present. But a drugged fueled phone call from a Women to Fish could of triggered Fish into suicide whose health was not great. Diabetes and insomnia. Showing paranoia. I wonder if he suffered from sleep apnea and COPD? Some of signs he was showing appeared so. But most people would not recognize it.

We know he was estranged from his son. And it appears he had no seen his other family members for years and there was some estrangement with his bother. As seen on suicide note. It seems more likely Fish died by his own hand.

Crow

 

[Garry]

Born in Oklahoma, around ADA, if I recall correctly, we visited the cemetery many years ago. , look for parents grave on find a grave, Lots of research done on the mystery, If you can locate a copy of his son's book, good study of Frank. I believe he may have found something he shouldn't have, There are those out there that protect some of the big treasure depositories....of which there are many!
the old guy who's been there and done that

oldtimetreasurelore; Wow, You wrote: If you can locate a copy of his son's book, good study of Frank. I don't think I have ever heard of this publication. Can you furnish any details? Do you have a copy? Book Name? Publication Info, etc.

Thanks in Advance, Garry

 

[Randy Bradford]

Being Totally Anal Old Crow tried to dig deeper. ( Pardon The Pun ) To substantiate as much of the mans past as possible via independent sources. Frank Lawrence Fish allegedly born in 1900 died 1963? or 1965?

I found no birth record. No record of him being in any census in 1910, 1920, 1930, 1940, 1950. no voter registrations records No marriage record. No pass port application. No border crossing records. The only Frank Fish I found was born in 1903 and died in 1943 a forestry ranger working for the government recorded on census in 1930 and 1940.

While I cannot say for definite. I am at a loss he seem like ghost. An intriguing fellow.

Crow

Frank Lawrence Fish
Birth
18 Sep 1900
Illinois, USA
Death
7 Apr 1963 (aged 62)
Amador City, Amador County, California, USA
Burial
Jackson City Cemetery
Jackson, Amador County, California, USA
Plot Map 7, 572
Memorial ID 159898536
Parents: John Thomas Fish, Mary Elizabeth Marietta Cory
Spouse: Dorcas M Fish
Taken from parts of an article by Scott Anderson, see article for full story:

 

[Randy Bradford]

Good morning. May I suggest you read the book, "Dead Men Do Tell Tales", by Lake Erie Schaefer, Containing "Stories from the Diary of Frank L. Fish" Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

Also, "Who Murdered Frank Fish" by Ben Traywick

 

[Randy Bradford]

My Frank Fish clip file is nearly 200 pages long. Lt. Riesenberg made sure he got a lot of press...perhaps too much.

Here's an add from the Los Angeles Times, 29 November 1959

This would have been before he moved to Amador.

 

[oldtimetreasurelore]

oldtimetreasurelore; Wow, You wrote: If you can locate a copy of his son's book, good study of Frank. I don't think I have ever heard of this publication. Can you furnish any details? Do you have a copy? Book Name? Publication Info, etc.

Thanks in Advance, Garry

Hey Gary,
I can remember the booklet pretty well, its not a bound book, maybe 30 8 x 10 pages and possibly a photo or two?? I am sure its somewhere in my archived treasure documents. I'm not at this time able to go though the dozens of boxes and/or several PCs and external HDD to locate it. I recall his son's investigation of his Dad's death and he didn't believe it suicide. Frank has just purchased new Jeep and was turning it into an off-road camper vehicle of some sort. It was noted that he received a very disturbing phone call at the tavern across the street from the museum. People who knew him saw that when he left he was really distressed. Possibly someone had threatened him? When they found his body the museum was already looted and most of his treasure finds were gone. Apache Jim Wilson, with whom I was in a friendly competition with for several caches, knew Frank and told me he was onto something much like I have found over the past 40 odd years. Jim was not a map or code reader but did burn me for $100,000 mixed gold and silver coin. But I returned his favor.... I got to him for about and equal amount. I would get him for more because before he passed he gave me alot of his sites and I have located some of the caches, they need recovering but I am out of commission for digging and also am home bound with my "Sweetheart" of 66 years. Jim and his hunting partner Bob (Snuffy) Smith here in Arkansas were afraid of hunting the Masonic treasures. I think Frank found dug into one of those on his last outing somewhere along an old stage trail in east CA or west NV. If I find the booklet and it isn't marked copyrighted I may post it here.
Sorry but old age and a 90 year old wife, it keeps me busy just trying to keep us both alive.

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Being Totally Anal Old Crow tried to dig deeper.

I being of sound mind and body and here to fore pure do hereby declare that I will never knowingly turn my back to Crow, so help me gawd

( Pardon The Pun ) To substantiate as much of the mans past as possible via independent sources. Frank Lawrence Fish allegedly born in 1900 died 1963? or 1965?

I found no birth record. No record of him being in any census in 1910, 1920, 1930, 1940, 1950. no voter registrations records No marriage record. No pass port application. No border crossing records. The only Frank Fish I found was born in 1903 and died in 1943 a forestry ranger working for the government recorded on census in 1930 and 1940.

While I cannot say for definite. I am at a loss he seem like ghost. An intriguing fellow.

Crow

 

[oldtimetreasurelore]

Hello Darrell.

Thank you for information and clarifying a few things. And you have definitely located the location of robbers roost.

Here is some pictures of Robbers roost. Near freeman junction as per claims of buried treasure near freeman junction.

View attachment 2212209

As per fish's claims in his book.

View attachment 2212211

Robbers roost seen from the highway 6

View attachment 2212210

Seen from 178

View attachment 2212212

Frank Fishes map below.

View attachment 2212213

So I understand the site in question. You can deferentially see a prominent lank mark to hide treasure. And Bickel camp nearby in black mountain. And Alex ApostolidesI below with Bickel,

View attachment 2212220

Bickel camp below.

View attachment 2212215

Alex ApostolidesI was in the area of research and it it possible they could of crossed paths. As fish mention treasure in Lost chance canyon. But what year did Alex ApostolidesI come onto the scene. Was he first there in the early 1960s? or just in 1970s?



View attachment 2212218

Here is picture of his earlier years.

View attachment 2212219

Crow

I'm surprised nobody has called your attention to the clues seen on the mountain/hill at the Hole in the Wall the photo isn't high enough resolution to make out all that is there I played with it with my photo software and see at least the required skull some lettering and numbers all of which are clues to something hidden or buried out there. For the life of me I don't see how some rea treasure hunter hasn't seen this before, the same thing is all over the counry and if you know how to use the clues gold awaits you.

the old guy again

 

[oldtimetreasurelore]

Hey Gary,
I can remember the booklet pretty well, its not a bound book, maybe 30 8 x 10 pages and possibly a photo or two?? I am sure its somewhere in my archived treasure documents. I'm not at this time able to go though the dozens of boxes and/or several PCs and external HDD to locate it. I recall his son's investigation of his Dad's death and he didn't believe it suicide. Frank has just purchased new Jeep and was turning it into an off-road camper vehicle of some sort. It was noted that he received a very disturbing phone call at the tavern across the street from the museum. People who knew him saw that when he left he was really distressed. Possibly someone had threatened him? When they found his body the museum was already looted and most of his treasure finds were gone. Apache Jim Wilson, with whom I was in a friendly competition with for several caches, knew Frank and told me he was onto something much like I have found over the past 40 odd years. Jim was not a map or code reader but did burn me for $100,000 mixed gold and silver coin. But I returned his favor.... I got to him for about and equal amount. I would get him for more because before he passed he gave me alot of his sites and I have located some of the caches, they need recovering but I am out of commission for digging and also am home bound with my "Sweetheart" of 66 years. Jim and his hunting partner Bob (Snuffy) Smith here in Arkansas were afraid of hunting the Masonic treasures. I think Frank found dug into one of those on his last outing somewhere along an old stage trail in east CA or west NV. If I find the booklet and it isn't marked copyrighted I may post it here.
Sorry but old age and a 90 year old wife, it keeps me busy just trying to keep us both alive.

In the old Tombstone Epitaph a writer ,named Ben Traywick, wrote several articles about Francois Lawrence Fish's career and murder, some of the conclusions of John Fish about his Dad's murder were included one or more of the articles. Frank, of course, is short for Francis, Frank and his brother John were born in Illinois or Indiana, the family moved to around Gerry, Oklahoma about 1908, Frank grew up a wanderlust and a loner. Moved around a lot but finally ended up in CA. I don't know the origin of his Peralta map but can say for certain it is a fake. Around 1996-97, Tom Kollenborn, gave me a close copy of the same map but with small differences. The map appears to be read as mirror image, and some of the landmarks can be found. but I can see nothing where it is related to the LUE treasure maps, The map is a fake simply because there never were any Peralta mines in that region I know the legend is so deeply rooted some will kill to keep it going. I wouldn't mind if someone proved me wrong but with GCR searching for documentation for that legend for over 30 years I might mention that the Peralta Stone Maps are also not at all connected to a Peralta. Watch the movie from years back, about James Addison Reavis, The Baron of Arizona. I needed say more but I will in another post as soon as I get the proof together for what I'll be posting
Also the Peralta Stone maps, too, are fake as for being made by a Peralta. There is no way they could have been made prior to 1900. I'll attach photos to prove that fact. In fact those stones were made for the LUE enigma. I handled, closely examined and have photo of original tablets when they were kept at in the Miners and Mineral Museum in Phoenix. Using a professional camera for close ups and feeling the carvings with my finger tips, they too smooth to have been made with chisels. Likely they were made with a High speed rotary tool i.e. dental drill. I have proof that KVM's LUE map and the Peralta Maps are both required to work the LUE treasure in AZ. I explained how to decode some of the stone maps information in my book. "Shadow of the Sentinel", Simon & Schuster. Some of You already guessed it but I am the author. Warren Getler edited my writing and added some fifty-cent words. Then he got half of the royalty, not a bad deal for him. I spent years gathering the material and it cost us pretty much a fortune for a Hillbillly who hadn't had a real job for years,, post under the name of Rennes, our office manager, Marta who now lives in Corpus Christi. tx
I continued to use her account after we closed GCR a few years ago. That account is idle .Now I'll be posting under this handle since Google has little control over Yahoo
I'm still the old guy that has been there and did that
HBBB