Introducing Mr. Turtlehead and Hello, Hoyo ...
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Springfield
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First, I suggest you make an objective effort to understand pareidolia and apophenia. It's tempting to imagine the numerous strange rocks you encounter in the canyons are Spanish treasure signs, but your odds are much better winning the Powerball, IMO. You've shown some pretty interesting points of view about all this treasure stuff - be careful not to get sidetracked in dead ends.
The facial/turtle pic. Climb up there and determine if the facial profile is simply natural or if it's been enhanced. There will be no doubt if man has chiseled away the area above and below the 'nose'. You will find clear evidence on the rock itself and the slope below it. Compare the tooled 'removal sections' with untouched sections - the results will be obvious if man has tampered. Tooled surfaces take a long, long time to weather back to 'natural'. There should also be a fan of chiseled rock chips below the 'carving' - again, compare with the slopes beneath natural outcroppings. The chips wouldn't have been removed - no reason to if you're trying to get someone's attention.
Turtle monuments? Climb up there and inspect them closely. If these were manufactured, they will look obviously unnatural and stacked. Are they part of bedrock? Are they formed by fracturing and weather erosion? Are they unnaturally stacked up? Manmade monuments are generally easy to detect. If you can objectively find evidence that the face and turtles were manufactured, then you might be onto something. If not, well ... there are literally thousands of groovy lookalikes all over the west. Tens of thousands, if your brain is particularly receptive.
The eye catcher. Not having the opportunity to see the outcropping in person, what I notice from the photo is a rock outcropping that seems to have inclusions of a whitish material or crystallized mineral all over and through it. The circled portion is interesting, but it seems to be a natural anomoly. If so, yes it is an eye catcher for that reason only - it's a bit weird. If man was trying to get your attention, he would place an entirely different kind or color rock against a plain background - arock that obviously came from somewhere other than where it's sitting.
Hoyo. It's a good one - the best of the three pictures, IMO. Is it natural? Natural arches and holes in rocks are quite common. They are caused by weather erosion and are found where the wind is unobstructed. Is that the case here? Is the rock easily erodable? If so, man may have helped it along. Is there any evidence of this? Are rocks stacked on the top or sides of the hole?
Most importantly, is there a plausible reason that this canyon would include manmade treasure signs requiring such an effort to create? Is the country mineralized? Are there historic mines anywhere nearby? Is the canyon an historic travel route? Are there old settlements in the vicinity? Are there carvings in the canyon? Are there treasure legends in the country surrounding the canyon, especially far upstream? Who, when and why would anyone have any reason to suspect this canyon would be associated with treasure? You must have had a reason to be up this canyon in the first place.
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Springfield
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Just that it's a nice landmark to look for if one was looking for it up this canyon. I don't put any credence in subtle markers.
I think Morrison is a place of interest you might research. Is the face looking to the east? Trail comes into Morrison from the NW, probably very ancient. To get the exact route you will have to research each county. I researched a trail crossing most of the U.S. using this method. Very time consuming but productive. In the late 1800's and early 1900's there could have been movement of valuables from northern California and Nevada to the front range. Probably crossed the Mississippi River in southern Missouri and maybe ended up in Charleston S.C. Look for a link between Morrison and Charleston. You might also look for a Masonic link between Canon City and Morrison. Smelters in northern California might be a good place to start your research when looking for the trail.
Shortstack
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Well, Nobody:
That "hole to nowhere" reminded me on one I walked into that went straight into solid rock of a cliff close to Apache Lake in Arizona. High up on the face of a cliff, with a narrow trail up to it and it was about 20 feet into the rock. Someone told me, later, that it was a prospect hole dug out by the Spanish a long time ago. This was back in the late 1960s.....a looooog time before I began following the forums. It was basically round and, as I said, about 20 feet straight into the cliff. Maybe YOURS is a prospect hole, too.
Now. About that car.............You could probably make a few dollars with that thing. If you could get a trailer or some other way to haul that thing out; you could part it out and sell them at auto flea markets. That looks like either a 1941 Chevy or a 1947. Two door sedans are popular with the Custom Rod / custom car crowd. The Low Rider guys like the 4 doors a little more, but 2 door types, too. If you can't get the entire thing out, then take a cordless sawsall with a couple of back up batteries and several spare metal cutting blades. Have some #2 Phillips and cross point screwdrivers. Add some 7/16; 1/2 and 9/16 combination wrenches and same sizes in 1/2 inch drive deep sockets and a ratchet or breaker bar. You can strip some good sheet metal pieces from that hulk to put some coins into your pocket. You see, the after market body panels made in China or Mexico don't fit very good and always needs some extra massaging to use. Old sheet pieces that can be refinished are sought after by restorers, custom rodders, custom car builders and the low rider folks. Just from the photos you posted, that hood (with the hindges) is in very good shape. The rear fenders look good and that complete roof. To salvage that roof, jus cut the windhield posts, the door posts, and the rear quarters down close to the lower window openings and take it as a complete piece. One thing that would often happen to the old turrent topped cars is when someone would dent in the whole top and ruin them. "real steel" is the best.
As Karl von Mueller wrote in his books....keep your eyes open while in the field, for other things of value that you can recover.
That "hole to nowhere" reminded me on one I walked into that went straight into solid rock of a cliff close to Apache Lake in Arizona. High up on the face of a cliff, with a narrow trail up to it and it was about 20 feet into the rock. Someone told me, later, that it was a prospect hole dug out by the Spanish a long time ago. This was back in the late 1960s.....a looooog time before I began following the forums. It was basically round and, as I said, about 20 feet straight into the cliff. Maybe YOURS is a prospect hole, too.
Now. About that car.............You could probably make a few dollars with that thing. If you could get a trailer or some other way to haul that thing out; you could part it out and sell them at auto flea markets. That looks like either a 1941 Chevy or a 1947. Two door sedans are popular with the Custom Rod / custom car crowd. The Low Rider guys like the 4 doors a little more, but 2 door types, too. If you can't get the entire thing out, then take a cordless sawsall with a couple of back up batteries and several spare metal cutting blades. Have some #2 Phillips and cross point screwdrivers. Add some 7/16; 1/2 and 9/16 combination wrenches and same sizes in 1/2 inch drive deep sockets and a ratchet or breaker bar. You can strip some good sheet metal pieces from that hulk to put some coins into your pocket. You see, the after market body panels made in China or Mexico don't fit very good and always needs some extra massaging to use. Old sheet pieces that can be refinished are sought after by restorers, custom rodders, custom car builders and the low rider folks. Just from the photos you posted, that hood (with the hindges) is in very good shape. The rear fenders look good and that complete roof. To salvage that roof, jus cut the windhield posts, the door posts, and the rear quarters down close to the lower window openings and take it as a complete piece. One thing that would often happen to the old turrent topped cars is when someone would dent in the whole top and ruin them. "real steel" is the best.
As Karl von Mueller wrote in his books....keep your eyes open while in the field, for other things of value that you can recover.
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Shortstack
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Nobody:
It's interesting that you mention Raton Pass on the Co/NM line. For the last several years of his life, Karl von Mueller lived in Segundo, Colorado and was working with a partner in searching for a very large bullion cache in a covered mine, somewhere in the Sangre de Cristos mountains near his area.
In his last book, Waybills to El Dorado, he wrote of several treasures in Colorado and New Mexico as well as Arizona and other states. That is the book that pissed off several professionals who thought he shouldn't have written about those treasures. You see, that book was filled with treasure stories that he had put in initial research on and decided were viable leads and those other hunters didn't like that he'd broadcasted to the world the GOOD stuff. Someone later burglarized the shed he'd set up as his office and library, and burned down the building. His health went down hill fast after that and he died. Some say he knew who had burned him out and was heartbroken at the treachery.
It's interesting that you mention Raton Pass on the Co/NM line. For the last several years of his life, Karl von Mueller lived in Segundo, Colorado and was working with a partner in searching for a very large bullion cache in a covered mine, somewhere in the Sangre de Cristos mountains near his area.
In his last book, Waybills to El Dorado, he wrote of several treasures in Colorado and New Mexico as well as Arizona and other states. That is the book that pissed off several professionals who thought he shouldn't have written about those treasures. You see, that book was filled with treasure stories that he had put in initial research on and decided were viable leads and those other hunters didn't like that he'd broadcasted to the world the GOOD stuff. Someone later burglarized the shed he'd set up as his office and library, and burned down the building. His health went down hill fast after that and he died. Some say he knew who had burned him out and was heartbroken at the treachery.
Shortstack
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Nobody:
The LUE is located in the 4 corners area, not the south end of the Sangre de Cristos, near the NM line. KVM wrote of that cache in one of his books, either Treasure Hunters' Manual #6 or THM #7 and stated that a few different people had decoded the map and were making annual trips to the location to load up with enough valuables to tide them over for the coming year. They used it as a "bank account" without having to pay taxes on the whole thing.......just on what they removed each year.
No, he was NOT a bullshitter. If he thought a treasure story was a bunch of bunk, he'd say so......in person and in his books & regular columns he wrote for magazines. He was an electrical engineer and his closest friend and hunting partner, Hardrock Hammonds, was an aeronautical engineer. These guys were no dummies. KVM designed and constructed a STABLE BFO metal detector. I can't remember the name he gave it, but he willingly made them for some of his friends. One of those people filed for a patent on the schematic after making a few changes to personalize it and to keep from being sued by KVM. That individual made a small fortune manufacturing "his" machine and NEVER gave credit to KVM for the design. And, NO, that man is NOT Charles Garrett. No one except us long time, old time THers would recognize the man's name although many more might remember the name of his detector and his magazine.
The book, Waybills to Eldorado, is filled with leads that he personally researched through the years to varify that they were valid. The reason he put them into that book was because the treasures could not ALL be recovered in one lifetime, so he presented them to the rest of us as a solid collection to choose a specific goal to look for. He is not the only professional THer to do that. Frank Fish and Apache Jim Wilson did the same thing with their own individual little booklets. Their little books have looooong been out of print and would be collector items in their own right. I got copies of each many, many years ago, when the men were still living and I still have them.
If you want to know "who" Karl von Mueller was, get his 2 books, THM #6 and #7, and study them. He did not write out his tips and points of information as straight out "this is how it's done" language. He would tell the story of acquaintances who had been successful and use a specific technique THEY used to clarify their leads and gain success. You have to read those books more than once to learn. If a person cannot learn from those 2 books, that person is probably going to be unsuccessful in their searches; or at the least, take a whole lot longer to learn by mistakes than would have been avoided had they read his books.
KVM wrote ALL of his books in formats that allowed him to sell them at LOW prices. I think the Waybils to Eldorado, at $10, was the most expensive cover price of any of his products. Several of his books were LITERALLY paper backed. They are the size of small magazines with front and back covers being the same weight paper as the inside pages.
Did I admire KVM. You betcha your..........hat I did. I got to meet him and his wife at a big treasure show and hunt in Tulsa, OK a few months before he died. Karl von Mueller was his pen name that he used for the majority of his books and other publications and Deek Gladson was another one he used for a few other writings. His son, Okie Jake Miller, was the illustrator for several of the books.....mostly the later, paper backed books--- Coin Shooting, The Merkitch Money Machine, The Owlhooters Manual #1 and #2, are just a few. He wrote the definitive book on using the Garrett Master Hunter detector that had no equal.
Now, was the burning of his office / library a result of him writing and publishing the "Waybills" book; I can't say it was directily connected, but it happened AFTER the book was published and he's gotten feedback from many pros who were very upset with him. And when I say "professional" treasure hunters, I mean people whose main lifely hood was from THing. KVM wrote the OwlHooters Manuals to show the rest of us proven ways that we could have small businesses to support ourselves while travelling around researching our leads. And I'll point out here, that Karl von Mueller was the ONLY writer who admonished his readers to make their first step in a hunt to be centered around proving that such-and-such person REALLY existed and really could have amassed "X" amount of valuables to hide. He wrote not only about caches of valuables, but also told how some of the folks he knew discovered something valuable that was totally unexpected. The best example was how one young man discovered that a certain river had changed course over the years and that the land owners along a popular stretch had not had their land descriptions amended to reflect the NEW boundaries. The man, quietly varified the laws of landownership in that state and filed for a land patent for a stretch of valuable river frontage of about 2 miles or so. When he had title to that strip of land, he sold it to developers for a very large sum that allowed him to retire and travel. I forget what the law was called that allowed him to file a land claim on that piece, but I found out, several years ago, that my own state has a similar law. The key to his claim was that, in that state, land ownership ended at the BANK of the waterways and not in the center of the water flow. In effect, when the river changed course, the old river channel was up for grabs and the local owners just moved their fences WITHOUT amending their land surveys. Moving the fences was not enough to give them title.
One last point and I'll end this "book" of mine. LOL KVM researched treasure leads from all arenas of interests. He didn't put much stock in all those KGC tales until he chanced on some information that he followed up on and became convinced that one large cache was buried under one of the Interstate Highways in the L.A. , CA area. He tried to do some walking in the area he figured was the spot, but was forced to leave by a California Highway Patrol officer who told him he couldn't park on the shoulder where he'd stopped on a stretch of frontage road. He gave up on that one in favor of a much more accessible cache of someother valuables NOT associated with the KGC. His passion was the Old West and all those tales of outlaw caches both large and small. He has advised people to concentrate on their own area of the country instead of spending a lot of monies to go somewhere else. He wrote that, in his opinion, every county of every state would have at least ONE big ticket item and several small caches that folks could search for without spending all of their money to go some long distance spot with no guaranteed success.
The LUE is located in the 4 corners area, not the south end of the Sangre de Cristos, near the NM line. KVM wrote of that cache in one of his books, either Treasure Hunters' Manual #6 or THM #7 and stated that a few different people had decoded the map and were making annual trips to the location to load up with enough valuables to tide them over for the coming year. They used it as a "bank account" without having to pay taxes on the whole thing.......just on what they removed each year.
No, he was NOT a bullshitter. If he thought a treasure story was a bunch of bunk, he'd say so......in person and in his books & regular columns he wrote for magazines. He was an electrical engineer and his closest friend and hunting partner, Hardrock Hammonds, was an aeronautical engineer. These guys were no dummies. KVM designed and constructed a STABLE BFO metal detector. I can't remember the name he gave it, but he willingly made them for some of his friends. One of those people filed for a patent on the schematic after making a few changes to personalize it and to keep from being sued by KVM. That individual made a small fortune manufacturing "his" machine and NEVER gave credit to KVM for the design. And, NO, that man is NOT Charles Garrett. No one except us long time, old time THers would recognize the man's name although many more might remember the name of his detector and his magazine.
The book, Waybills to Eldorado, is filled with leads that he personally researched through the years to varify that they were valid. The reason he put them into that book was because the treasures could not ALL be recovered in one lifetime, so he presented them to the rest of us as a solid collection to choose a specific goal to look for. He is not the only professional THer to do that. Frank Fish and Apache Jim Wilson did the same thing with their own individual little booklets. Their little books have looooong been out of print and would be collector items in their own right. I got copies of each many, many years ago, when the men were still living and I still have them.
If you want to know "who" Karl von Mueller was, get his 2 books, THM #6 and #7, and study them. He did not write out his tips and points of information as straight out "this is how it's done" language. He would tell the story of acquaintances who had been successful and use a specific technique THEY used to clarify their leads and gain success. You have to read those books more than once to learn. If a person cannot learn from those 2 books, that person is probably going to be unsuccessful in their searches; or at the least, take a whole lot longer to learn by mistakes than would have been avoided had they read his books.
KVM wrote ALL of his books in formats that allowed him to sell them at LOW prices. I think the Waybils to Eldorado, at $10, was the most expensive cover price of any of his products. Several of his books were LITERALLY paper backed. They are the size of small magazines with front and back covers being the same weight paper as the inside pages.
Did I admire KVM. You betcha your..........hat I did. I got to meet him and his wife at a big treasure show and hunt in Tulsa, OK a few months before he died. Karl von Mueller was his pen name that he used for the majority of his books and other publications and Deek Gladson was another one he used for a few other writings. His son, Okie Jake Miller, was the illustrator for several of the books.....mostly the later, paper backed books--- Coin Shooting, The Merkitch Money Machine, The Owlhooters Manual #1 and #2, are just a few. He wrote the definitive book on using the Garrett Master Hunter detector that had no equal.
Now, was the burning of his office / library a result of him writing and publishing the "Waybills" book; I can't say it was directily connected, but it happened AFTER the book was published and he's gotten feedback from many pros who were very upset with him. And when I say "professional" treasure hunters, I mean people whose main lifely hood was from THing. KVM wrote the OwlHooters Manuals to show the rest of us proven ways that we could have small businesses to support ourselves while travelling around researching our leads. And I'll point out here, that Karl von Mueller was the ONLY writer who admonished his readers to make their first step in a hunt to be centered around proving that such-and-such person REALLY existed and really could have amassed "X" amount of valuables to hide. He wrote not only about caches of valuables, but also told how some of the folks he knew discovered something valuable that was totally unexpected. The best example was how one young man discovered that a certain river had changed course over the years and that the land owners along a popular stretch had not had their land descriptions amended to reflect the NEW boundaries. The man, quietly varified the laws of landownership in that state and filed for a land patent for a stretch of valuable river frontage of about 2 miles or so. When he had title to that strip of land, he sold it to developers for a very large sum that allowed him to retire and travel. I forget what the law was called that allowed him to file a land claim on that piece, but I found out, several years ago, that my own state has a similar law. The key to his claim was that, in that state, land ownership ended at the BANK of the waterways and not in the center of the water flow. In effect, when the river changed course, the old river channel was up for grabs and the local owners just moved their fences WITHOUT amending their land surveys. Moving the fences was not enough to give them title.
One last point and I'll end this "book" of mine. LOL KVM researched treasure leads from all arenas of interests. He didn't put much stock in all those KGC tales until he chanced on some information that he followed up on and became convinced that one large cache was buried under one of the Interstate Highways in the L.A. , CA area. He tried to do some walking in the area he figured was the spot, but was forced to leave by a California Highway Patrol officer who told him he couldn't park on the shoulder where he'd stopped on a stretch of frontage road. He gave up on that one in favor of a much more accessible cache of someother valuables NOT associated with the KGC. His passion was the Old West and all those tales of outlaw caches both large and small. He has advised people to concentrate on their own area of the country instead of spending a lot of monies to go somewhere else. He wrote that, in his opinion, every county of every state would have at least ONE big ticket item and several small caches that folks could search for without spending all of their money to go some long distance spot with no guaranteed success.
Rawhide
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Hey SS, you able to get some of those hard to find out of print kvm and such?
Springfield
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Rock melting plant?
... Colonel Fawcett had first heard these strange stories some time after he had accepted his first
survey contract. Until he had known of them, his South American expeditions were completely
oriented toward civil and engineering work though even while performing his daily tasks he
continued to nurture a keen interest in the forest. During his surveys he also made copious
amounts of notes containing detailed observations about everything he saw, especially the ways
of the white settlers, the Indians of the forest, and the forest wildlife all of which are recorded in
detail in his book. However after Fawcett became familiar with the story of Francisco Raposo his
attentions and interests began to shift away from just pure engineering and more toward ventures
of exploration and discovery.
In one place in his diaries he records a remarkable conversation with another explorer
concerning an unusual forest bird that nests in perfect round holes in rock cliffs. The man had
actually spent 25 years living in the forests with the local natives and he had this to say:
“They make the holes themselves. I've seen how they do it, many a time. I've watched, I have,
and seen the birds come to the cliff with leaves of some sort in their beaks, and cling to the rock
like woodpeckers to a tree while they rubbed the leaves in a circular motion over the surface.
Then they would fly off, and come back with more leaves, and carry on with the rubbing process.
After three or four repetitions they dropped the leaves and started pecking at the place with their
sharp beaks, and—here's the marvelous part—they would soon open out a round hole in the
stone...”
"'Do you mean to say that the bird's beak can penetrate solid rock?'
“...No, I don't think the bird can get through solid rock. I believe, as everyone who has watched
them believes, that those birds know of a leaf with juice that can soften up rock till it's like wet
clay.’'
"The man continued with a personal story about his nephew. He had walked through the thick
bush to a nearby camp to retrieve his horse, which had gone lame and had been left there
temporarily. He noticed, when he arrived, that his New Mexican spurs had been eaten away
almost completely. The owner of the camp asked him if he had walked through a certain plant
about a foot high, with dark reddish leaves. The young man said he had walked through a wide
area that was completely covered with such plants.
“'That's it!’ they said, ‘That’s what's eaten your spurs away! That's the stuff the Incas used for
shaping stones. The juice will soften rock up till it's like paste. You must show me where you
found the plants.' But when they retraced the young man's steps they were unable to locate them.”
There is also an interesting footnote to Fawcett’s story about these birds that lends further
credence to the tale. A man who had been a member of the Yale Peruvian Expedition that
discovered Machu Pichu in 1911 wrote this strange story in his notes:
“Some years ago, when I was working in the mining camp at Cerro de Pasco (a place 14,000
feet up in the Andes of Central Peru), I went out one Sunday with some other Gringos to visit
some old Inca or Pre-Inca graves—to see if we could find anything worth while. We took our
grub with us, and, of course, a few bottles of pisco and beer, and a peon—a cholo—to help us
dig. Well, we had our lunch when we got to the burial place, and afterwards started to open up
some graves that seemed to be untouched. We worked hard, and knocked off every now and then
for a drink. I don't drink myself, but the others did, especially one chap who poured too much
pisco into himself and was inclined to be noisy. When we knocked off, all we had found was an
earthenware jar of about a quart capacity, and with liquid inside it.
"’I bet its chicha!" said the noisy one. “Let’s try it and see what sort of stuff the Incas drank!"
"’Probably poison us if we do." observed another.
"’Tell you what, then—let's try in on the peon!"
“’They dug the seal and stopper out of the jar's mouth, sniffed at the contents and called the
peon over to them.
"’Take a drink of this chicha," ordered the drunk. The peon took the jar, hesitated, and then
with an expression of fear spreading over his face thrust it into the drunk's hands and backed
away.
"’No, no, señor," he murmured. "Not that. That's not chicha!" He turned and made off.
“The drunk put the jar down on a flat-topped rock and set off in pursuit. “Come on, boys—
catch him!" he yelled. They caught the wretched man, dragged him back, and ordered him to
drink the contents of the jar. The peon struggled madly, his eyes popping. There was a bit of a
scrimmage, and the jar was knocked over and broken, its contents forming a puddle on top of the
rock. Then the peon broke free and took to his heels.
“Everyone laughed. It was a huge joke. But the exercise had made them thirsty and they went
over to the sack where the beer- bottles lay.
“About ten minutes later I bent over the rock and casually examined the pool of spilled liquid.
It was no longer liquid; the whole patch where it had been, and the rock under it, were as soft as
wet cement! It was as though the stone had melted, like wax under the influence of heat.”
The head of the Machu Pichu expedition Hiram Bingham also tells a similar tale that was
related to him by natives of how the edges of great stones would be rubbed with the juices of a
certain plant which would render them like clay to and create a perfect joint.
The possibility of such a plant existing is not at all unreasonable. There are still a myriad of
undiscovered species in the Amazon basin. Unfortunately though, due to the rapid rate of
deforestation that is occurring there, we may fast be running out of time to find it.
Bingham himself never put much faith in the story as he could never conceive of how such
enormous stones would have been lifted in the first place for such rubbing of the edges to have
taken place, let alone placed it into its position in the wall. Local legends have always insisted the
task was done by giants and Bingham himself surmised that such could only be the case...
https://buelahman.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/earths-forbidden-secrets-part-one.pdf
... Colonel Fawcett had first heard these strange stories some time after he had accepted his first
survey contract. Until he had known of them, his South American expeditions were completely
oriented toward civil and engineering work though even while performing his daily tasks he
continued to nurture a keen interest in the forest. During his surveys he also made copious
amounts of notes containing detailed observations about everything he saw, especially the ways
of the white settlers, the Indians of the forest, and the forest wildlife all of which are recorded in
detail in his book. However after Fawcett became familiar with the story of Francisco Raposo his
attentions and interests began to shift away from just pure engineering and more toward ventures
of exploration and discovery.
In one place in his diaries he records a remarkable conversation with another explorer
concerning an unusual forest bird that nests in perfect round holes in rock cliffs. The man had
actually spent 25 years living in the forests with the local natives and he had this to say:
“They make the holes themselves. I've seen how they do it, many a time. I've watched, I have,
and seen the birds come to the cliff with leaves of some sort in their beaks, and cling to the rock
like woodpeckers to a tree while they rubbed the leaves in a circular motion over the surface.
Then they would fly off, and come back with more leaves, and carry on with the rubbing process.
After three or four repetitions they dropped the leaves and started pecking at the place with their
sharp beaks, and—here's the marvelous part—they would soon open out a round hole in the
stone...”
"'Do you mean to say that the bird's beak can penetrate solid rock?'
“...No, I don't think the bird can get through solid rock. I believe, as everyone who has watched
them believes, that those birds know of a leaf with juice that can soften up rock till it's like wet
clay.’'
"The man continued with a personal story about his nephew. He had walked through the thick
bush to a nearby camp to retrieve his horse, which had gone lame and had been left there
temporarily. He noticed, when he arrived, that his New Mexican spurs had been eaten away
almost completely. The owner of the camp asked him if he had walked through a certain plant
about a foot high, with dark reddish leaves. The young man said he had walked through a wide
area that was completely covered with such plants.
“'That's it!’ they said, ‘That’s what's eaten your spurs away! That's the stuff the Incas used for
shaping stones. The juice will soften rock up till it's like paste. You must show me where you
found the plants.' But when they retraced the young man's steps they were unable to locate them.”
There is also an interesting footnote to Fawcett’s story about these birds that lends further
credence to the tale. A man who had been a member of the Yale Peruvian Expedition that
discovered Machu Pichu in 1911 wrote this strange story in his notes:
“Some years ago, when I was working in the mining camp at Cerro de Pasco (a place 14,000
feet up in the Andes of Central Peru), I went out one Sunday with some other Gringos to visit
some old Inca or Pre-Inca graves—to see if we could find anything worth while. We took our
grub with us, and, of course, a few bottles of pisco and beer, and a peon—a cholo—to help us
dig. Well, we had our lunch when we got to the burial place, and afterwards started to open up
some graves that seemed to be untouched. We worked hard, and knocked off every now and then
for a drink. I don't drink myself, but the others did, especially one chap who poured too much
pisco into himself and was inclined to be noisy. When we knocked off, all we had found was an
earthenware jar of about a quart capacity, and with liquid inside it.
"’I bet its chicha!" said the noisy one. “Let’s try it and see what sort of stuff the Incas drank!"
"’Probably poison us if we do." observed another.
"’Tell you what, then—let's try in on the peon!"
“’They dug the seal and stopper out of the jar's mouth, sniffed at the contents and called the
peon over to them.
"’Take a drink of this chicha," ordered the drunk. The peon took the jar, hesitated, and then
with an expression of fear spreading over his face thrust it into the drunk's hands and backed
away.
"’No, no, señor," he murmured. "Not that. That's not chicha!" He turned and made off.
“The drunk put the jar down on a flat-topped rock and set off in pursuit. “Come on, boys—
catch him!" he yelled. They caught the wretched man, dragged him back, and ordered him to
drink the contents of the jar. The peon struggled madly, his eyes popping. There was a bit of a
scrimmage, and the jar was knocked over and broken, its contents forming a puddle on top of the
rock. Then the peon broke free and took to his heels.
“Everyone laughed. It was a huge joke. But the exercise had made them thirsty and they went
over to the sack where the beer- bottles lay.
“About ten minutes later I bent over the rock and casually examined the pool of spilled liquid.
It was no longer liquid; the whole patch where it had been, and the rock under it, were as soft as
wet cement! It was as though the stone had melted, like wax under the influence of heat.”
The head of the Machu Pichu expedition Hiram Bingham also tells a similar tale that was
related to him by natives of how the edges of great stones would be rubbed with the juices of a
certain plant which would render them like clay to and create a perfect joint.
The possibility of such a plant existing is not at all unreasonable. There are still a myriad of
undiscovered species in the Amazon basin. Unfortunately though, due to the rapid rate of
deforestation that is occurring there, we may fast be running out of time to find it.
Bingham himself never put much faith in the story as he could never conceive of how such
enormous stones would have been lifted in the first place for such rubbing of the edges to have
taken place, let alone placed it into its position in the wall. Local legends have always insisted the
task was done by giants and Bingham himself surmised that such could only be the case...
https://buelahman.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/earths-forbidden-secrets-part-one.pdf
Last edited:
Hi Nobody,
I had never heard of the Lapis Exillis legend. I googled it and it reminded me of a story I found about Bernard de la Harpe. This excerpt is from Chronicles of Oklahoma.
When the western company wished to open up the Arkansas River as a highway to Spanish territory, La Harpe was chosen for the task. Dumont says of the expedition: "In 1721, some visionaries having assured the company of an emerald rock on the Arkansas River, Captain de la Harpe was sent to look for it and as I was then at the Yasaux as lieutenant and engineer, he took me along as mathematician. We ascended the river for more than two hundred and fifty leagues, without being able to discover this pretended treasure, probably because it existed only in imagination; we even advanced nearly fifty leagues further by land into the country, till, complaints arising in the troop, the Sieur de la Harpe, who apprehended a fate similar to La Salle’s resolved to retrace his steps and return to the capital . . . If we had not the good fortune to discover the emerald rock . . . . we had the satisfaction of traversing a very beautiful country, fertile plains, vast prairies covered with buffalo, stags, does, deer, turtles, etc. We saw rocks of jasper marble at the foot of which lay slabs cut by nature’s hand, others of slate and talc, very fit for making plaster. I have no doubt
[SUP]19.[/SUP]Bolton and Marshall, Colonization of North America. p. 283.
Page 260
there are gold mines in the country, as we discovered a little stream which rolled gold dust in its waters."[SUP]20[/SUP]
I had never heard of the Lapis Exillis legend. I googled it and it reminded me of a story I found about Bernard de la Harpe. This excerpt is from Chronicles of Oklahoma.
When the western company wished to open up the Arkansas River as a highway to Spanish territory, La Harpe was chosen for the task. Dumont says of the expedition: "In 1721, some visionaries having assured the company of an emerald rock on the Arkansas River, Captain de la Harpe was sent to look for it and as I was then at the Yasaux as lieutenant and engineer, he took me along as mathematician. We ascended the river for more than two hundred and fifty leagues, without being able to discover this pretended treasure, probably because it existed only in imagination; we even advanced nearly fifty leagues further by land into the country, till, complaints arising in the troop, the Sieur de la Harpe, who apprehended a fate similar to La Salle’s resolved to retrace his steps and return to the capital . . . If we had not the good fortune to discover the emerald rock . . . . we had the satisfaction of traversing a very beautiful country, fertile plains, vast prairies covered with buffalo, stags, does, deer, turtles, etc. We saw rocks of jasper marble at the foot of which lay slabs cut by nature’s hand, others of slate and talc, very fit for making plaster. I have no doubt
[SUP]19.[/SUP]Bolton and Marshall, Colonization of North America. p. 283.
Page 260
there are gold mines in the country, as we discovered a little stream which rolled gold dust in its waters."[SUP]20[/SUP]
I agree with you about the archeologists. My personal experience with them is, if it's outside the norm, they don't want to know about it. If they do know, they aren't talking. It seems to be an intolerant and cutthroat occupation.
I like to study the traders. Unfortunately I favor general research so I don't consider myself an expert on any specific group or period. I do like the Phoenicians/Jews and, if there ever was a group that favored secret societies, I would pick this group. The trade they practiced required secrecy. They have historically, since the fall of Carthage, been militarily weak. The Jews have been robbed, exiled or murdered throughout their history and yet they have been the greatest traders and merchants the World has known. Over the centuries, they have used family and religious ties to develop trade and intelligence networks throughout the World. They have advised Kings and financed many economic and military endeavors. I can't type as long as you, but you get the idea.
dog the treasure hunter
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Anyone mind posting ANY information that links the word "hoyo" with a hole through a rock?
Anyone?
I didn't think so.
once upon a time I posted picture of a rock I called the ugly horse, it had a hole in it. I've seen a lot of them actually.
Stuff for whoever might be interested:
The Truth Behind the Ark | National Geographic Channel
now how many of your spanish experts would sware up and down that symbol of a cross on a circle was spanish?
nope.....
Seagoing Ships and Seamanship in the Bronze Age Levant - Shelley Wachsmann - Google Books
I've seen some real good examples from new mexico, maybe if we're lucky they will post some.
I might even post some of the ones I have pictures of>after I blur them up and scribble lines all over them
heres a cross in a circle from New Mexico,you can see from how worn it is,that its much older than the other carvings.when your up on another mountain top across from here,this looks like a giant turtle with the cross on its forehead.someone took the time to place all kinds of tangle foot all around this turtle,very tough climbing to get there. i believe there is a very rich treasure here. proving it is still in the works.View attachment 1039214View attachment 1039215View attachment 1039216
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Cody had ties to J.S. Morton and I have read communications between the two men. He drove coach and wagons in Nebraska City and at one time he worked for Russell, Majors, and Weddell at the same time Benjamin Ficklin was superintending the operation. Later in life Cody would find a washed up Alexander Majors living in a tiny shack in Denver. He put up the money to have Major's memoirs published "75 years on the frontier". It is a good record of early troop movements but I find it strange it does not mention a negro or any slaves.....
L.C.
This story reminded me of something that might fit in with this thread. From a history of Wyoming.
The story of Wyoming's earliest inhabitants is enveloped in a haze of mys-
tery and obscurity, but recent explorations have developed the fact that this
state has the most ancient remains of vanished races to be found on this con-
tinent. In the pre-historic mines of this state there is embedded the hidden
chronicles of extinct races — the story of the stone age and the cave man, of the
buried, untold history of the primitive, rude and savage life of the childhood of
the world.
Dr. Harlem I. Smith, a noted archaeologist, after his explorations in this
state, described the plains and foot hills of Wyoming as "Darkest Archaeological
America." Mr. C. H. Robinson, one of the most recent explorers of the Aborig-
inal Quarries north of Hartville, says the region he investigated is, "An Archae-
ological Wonderland.''
The oldest students of Ethnology have been so mystified and puzzled by the
unique, remarkable and extensive stone quarries and village sites found in this
state that they hesitate to give any opinions as to the period of their settlement
and active operation. Dr. George A. Dorsey says, "There are here many prob-
lems unsolved but well worthy of solution." All evidences point to their existence
before the period of the mound builders or the cliff dwellers.
In addition to the remains of the stone workers there have been recently
discovered in Wyoming the medicine wheels and cave dwellings, the latter being
found in the vicinity of the quarries. The medicine wheels are found on the tops
of mountains of the Big Horn range.
ANCIENT ABORIGINAL QU.\RRIES
The editor of this volume was the first to give to the world an account of
the ancient aboriginal quarries discovered about thirty miles north of Hartville,
where he was then engaged in mining operations. This was in 1892, and after a
visit to the locality he wrote to the San Francisco Examiner and St. Louis Repub-
31
32 HISTORY OF WYOMING
lie a description of his trip and what he saw. Up to this time the working had
been known to cowboys as "The Spanish Diggins."
In 1899 he made a second visit to the qtiarries accompanied by his son,
Sydney E. Bartlett and Judge Sydney E. Eastman of Chicago. Judge Eastman
took the specimens of stone work he collected to Chicago and submitted them
to Dr. George A. Dorsey, Curator of the Department of Anthropology of the
Field Columbian Museum. Dr. George A. Dorsey was so much interested in the
find, he wrote requesting me to arrange an expedition for him to the locality and
I arranged with Mr. William Lauk and W. L. Stein of Whalen Canyon (near
Guernsey), two experienced miners and prospectors who knew the country
thoroughly, to supply the teams and equipment and accompany the party as
guides.
This was the first scientific expedition to the quarries and shop sites. Doctor
Dorsey's report of this investigation appears in the Anthropological series of the
Columbian Museum of December, 1900, with photographic illustrations showing
the pits, quartzite workings, excavations and about fifty examples of stone im-
plements.
Since that time many explorations have been made by archaeologists repre-
senting various museums, colleges and scientific societies of this country and
Canada.
OTHER EXPEDITIONS
Among other expeditions to these fields may be mentioned the following:
Dr. Harlem I. .Smith of the Canadian Geological Survey — two trips — one in
1910 and one in 1914. These resulted in his issuing a publication entitled, "An
Unknown Field in American Archaeology" and another work on "Cave Explora-
tions in Eastern Wyoming."
Amherst College sent two expeditions under Professor Loomis in igo" and
1908. These were research expeditions of students on vacation.
Dr. Erwin H. Barbour, at the head of the Department of Geology of the Uni-
versity of Nebraska, visited the locality in 1905.
Dr. M. H. Everett of Lincoln, Nebraska, accompanied Dr. Barbour on this
trip and became so interested he made two more trips.
Professor Richard Lull of the Yale College Department of Geology made
an investigation of the field in 1903.
R. F. Gilder, of the Omaha World- Herald, has been a most enthusiastic inves-
tigator of Wyoining's ancient remains, and has made many visits to the aboriginal
quarries since 1905, and has written interesting reports of same in the "Records
of the Past" magazine appearing in the issues of August, 1908, and February.
1909. Probably Mr. Gilder has spent more time in exploring these workings
than any other person.
C. H. Robinson, of Bloomington, 111., an earnest student of Ethnology, repre-
senting the Illinois State Museum and the McLean County Historical Society,
visited the field in August, 191 5, and has written a valuable bulletin descriptive of
his experiences and discoveries.
In 191 5 the Smithsonian Institution sent a party of scientists to investigate
the field with a view of establishing a National Park. This expedition was under-
UPPER QUARTZITE STRATUM SH
Dr. George A. Dorse}-, curator Fielil
ER NODULES
Museum, Chicago.
34 HISTORY OF WYOMING
taken upon representations made by the writer and United States Senator Ken-
drick, who was then governor of Wyoming. Its report was favorable and will
be more fully explained in this chapter. In addition to these expeditions in the in-
terests of science, hundreds of tourists, curiosity seekers and hunters have made
trips to the region and have carried away thousands of stone implements of
varied character, comprising war, hunting, domestic and agricultural tools.
THE SO-C.\LLED "SPANISH DIGGINS"
The names "Mexican Mines" and "Spanish Diggins," were first applied to
these workings by the cowboys who rode the range. The ancient village sites,
shop sites and quarries are located over an area of ten by forty miles, extending
from a point south of Manville to Bulls Bend on the north Platte River. Not
all of this ground is taken up with workings, of course, but in all this region
of four hundred square miles, the visitor is seldom out of sight of some village
site or quarry. C. H. Robinson, who spent several weeks in the region says he
traveled over six hundred miles on foot and horseback, and collected for Illinois
State Museum four hundred and fifty-five specimens of rock work and for the
McLean County Historical Society two hundred and eighty-eight specimens.
This will give one some idea of the extent of these remains.
Mr. Gilder says, "In no section of the entire world can be found ancient
quarries of such magnitude." There must have been a dense population and
thousands of workers in active employment in these fields for at least half
a century.
TOPOGRAPHY AND SCENERY
A description of the quarries first discovered (there were many others found
later) was given by Mr. Bartlett in his correspondence in 1892, as follows:
"The region is intensely weird and picturesque. The surrounding country is
broken into a series of rugged hills, interspersed with rocky and sandy gulches,
with stretches of mesas and desert plains to the south. Much of the area resem-
bles the bad lands in its loneliness and its grotesque rock formations. From
the top of the mesa where the principal workings are found, the scene though
wild and desolate was magnificent. The Laramie range loomed up in the west
against a clear sky, the table lands and foot hills between showing picturesque,
rocky formations rising abruptly, clean cut and distinct, like castle towers and
fortifications, but everywhere around us was an oppressive silence and desolation,
as if we had invaded the burial ground of a long departed race."
The locality of the first discoveries is along the Dry Muddy. The country
is so dry that live stock cannot range there. From the dry creek there arises a
series of clififs of sandstone and quartzite, and along the top of these clififs in
their broken and irregular formations stretching away for some miles are found
the quarry workings, consisting of pits, tunnels, open cuts and immense bodies
of rock dumps created by the mining operations. Beyond the workings and
broken ledges at the top of the clifT a flat mesa-like formation extends south-
wardly an^ here the village and shop sites are located.
1698216
'■Si'AMSIi DIGGINS," 1915
Vase 14 inehes high, 10 inches in diameter, 7 inches at top.
HISTORY OF WYOMING
THEIR SYSTEM OF MINING
The mining operations carried on in great magnitude among these rocks
seem to have been on a pecuHar stratum of quartzite lying in sandstone. This
quartzite was selected undoubtedly on account of its conchoidal fracture which
gave sharp edges, and the ease with which it could be shaped and worked. In
order to reach the vein of quartzite the overlying strata of other kinds of rock
had to be mined and removed. It is a curious fact that all this rock mining
was done with rock tools, such as wedges and heavy hammers. In some instances
the wedges were found set in the rock seams ready to be driven, and this seems
to bear out Doctor Dorsey's theory that the region was suddenly abandoned
either from attacks from enemy tribes or from some cataclysm of nature.
Nowhere is there any evidence that metal tools were used in either mining
or for domestic purposes. As to their manner of working, Doctor Dorsey says,
"At one place on the bank near the ravine I found a great slab which evidently
served as a seat for some workingman. Seating myself upon it, I could readily
make out the grooves in front of the seat where had rested the legs and feet, while
on the right were two hammer-stones of different sizes, and all about were chips,
refuse, and many rejected and partially roughed-out implements."
Evidently their mining work was a slow, tedious and laborious process and
very crude, requiring hundreds of workers to accomplish what two or three men
could easily do today. Much of the work was done in pits from twenty-five to
thirty feet in diameter and from ten to thirty feet deep. There were some tun-
nels and many open cuts of large extent. Everywhere were huge dumps of
broken rock which had been worked out and worked over. In most cases the
pits were nearly filled up with accumulation of soil and debris and trees and
shrubbery were growing from them.
THE ROCK IMPLEMENTS FOUND
The implements manufactured were for war, domestic and agricultural uses.
In the opinion of experts the agricultural tools predominated.
A general summary of the specimens found includes arrow and lance heads,
knives, hide scrapers, hammers, axes, hoes, grinding mills, wedges, mauls and
various leaf-shaped implements.
The heavy hammers or grooved mauls were usually of dense hard granite, but
all the other output of the quarries was of the peculiar quartzite here excavated,
so peculiar in fact that when in the surrounding country or in the neighboring
states of Nebraska and Oklahoma, the tools can be easily recognized as coming
from the Wyoming quarries — the character of the rock at once establishing a
trade mark.
Tons of cores left just in the beginning of being shaped are found round
the pits and shop sites. As to other rock manufactures, R. F. Gilder says:
"Strange stone figures of immense proportions representing human beings and
thousands of stone cairns are strewn over the landscape for many miles."
HISTORY OF WYOMING
SHOP AND VILLAGE SITES
Back on the mesa in close proximity to the workings are extensive village
sites, marked by hundreds of tepee or lodge circles made by stones used to keep
the poles in place that were covered with skins of animals or brush, and these
were the habitations of this primitive race. Many of such villages are located
forty or fifty miles away in pleasant valleys and parks where there were springs
or running streams. Nearly all of these villages were also shop sites as is demon-
strated by large accumulations of chips and rejects showing that they were
simply adjuncts of the quarry mining.
In these villages and work shops scattered over a region of probably five
hundred square miles there are found many specimens of workmanship not made
from the quarry blocks. Arrow and lance heads and hide scrapers are found
beautifully fashioned from brilliantly colored agates, jasper and chalcedony.
All colors are represented, white, blue, red, yellow, black and banded. They
are mostly small and the work on these is so superior to that at the quarries that
some are inclined to think they may be classed as the product of the modem
Indians who occupied the country after the quarry races had passed away.
The Indians of today have no knowledge, theory or traditions concerning these
remains. They have no knowledge of the system of mining these huge quarries,
and never made an efifort to perform such laborious tasks.
OTHER GREAT QUARRIES
The above description applies to the first discovered aboriginal quarries loca-
ted on the Dry Muddy. Recent explorations have brought to light other exten-
sive workings, the most important being in the vicinity of Saw Mill Canyon,
near the North Platte River, fifteen or twenty miles southeast of the Muddy
workings in Converse and Niobrara counties.
Dr. Harlem I. Smith in an article published in the Archaeological Bulletin of
April, 1914, says: "On my last trip we discovered many miles south of the
'Spanish Diggins' proper, another quarry district. The exact location of this
cannot be made known at this time. Near these quarries are shop sites covering
many acres where chips and cones are in such abundance as to stagger one's
belief. Most of the material is black and yellow jasper and fine grained moss
agate."
Mr. Gilder refers to this same locality probably when he says : "Another
quarry territory discovered on one of my trips never explored is so difficult of
access that I hardly know how to tell just where it is, but if you follow the
canyon on the east bank of the Platte until west of the Saw Mill Canyon, you
would reach a section so prolific in material, so tremendous in scale of work
performed that you would never want to see another such district I am sure."
Thus it will be seen that the exploration of this wonderful region which
links us to remote ages, has only just begun. The experts, scientists and curi-
osity hunters who have roamed over this area of some four hundred square miles
have only seen surface indications and picked up such specimens as lay before
the naked eye. There has been no systematic plan of exploration and no excava-
38 HISTORY OF WYOMING
tion of the pits to uncover the hidden rehcs of the race that worked and dreamed
and passed "life's fitful fever" in these desolate wilds.
SHOULD BE A NATIONAL PARK
In May, 1905, the writer addressed a letter to W. A. Richards, commissioner
of the general land office, Washington, D. C, requesting the survey and with-
drawal of these lands for the protection of pre-historic remains. Mr. Richards
took up the matter with the United States Bureau of Ethnology which favored
the project. The area however was so large, and so many private land titles were
involved that action was deferred. The commissioner, however, said that if
we could give him a description by survey of the section or sections upon which
the principal quarries were found, he would recommend the reservation. At
that time it was impossible to furnish that information and the national govern-
ment had no surveyors in the field in this state.
In the summer of 1914 I again took up the matter and succeeded in getting
Governor Kendrick interested in the park or monument reserve. He gave me a
strong letter to Secretary Lane, which I presented in person. The matter was
referred to the Ethnological Department of the Smithsonian Institution and it
v;as agreed to send out a party to survey and investigate the fields. Dr. Grace
Raymond Hebard of the University of Wyoming took a deep interest in the
plan and urged such resen^ation in letters to the Smithsonian people.
Owing to the great extent of the region involved, 400 to 600 square miles,
it was deemed impracticable to reserve it all, but it was agreed to reserve the
most important of the "diggins"' for scientific research. This will undoubtedly
be done. The next spring following the examination made by the Smithsonian
Institution the government practically took charge of the principal workings and
required all visitors who desired to take away specimens, to secure a permit from
the Interior Department.
THEORIES AND OPINIONS
The writer has visited ancient remains in New Mexico and Arizona and.
while as objects they are picturesque and interesting, they cannot compare in
impressiveness. weirdness and mystery to the Wyoming remains which are to
be found on the American Continent. Personally I am strongly of the opinion
that they belong to the stone age, for various reasons. The rock work was done
with rock, they had no metal tools nor any domestic utensils except of rock manu-
facture, they had no dwelHngs that show any signs of architectural skill, and
nowhere can be found any foundations of buildings except the crude stone cir-
cles that marked the skin covered tepees.
• Mr. Robinson, who has made a thorough study of the ^Mound Builders, says :
"The specimens of stone tools, implements, etc.. are the same as found in the
mounds of the Mississippi \"al!ey credited to the handicraft of the Mound
Builders. The theory is thus advanced that these quarries may have been the
site of the workshops of the pre-historic men who roamed over the land ages
before the American Indian made his appearance. Here they made their uten-
sils and implements of war and the chase to be later carried down the Platte to
HISTORY OF WYOMING 39
the Missouri and ^lississippi to be left in Illinois and the various states bordering
on these streams."
Dr. F. B. Loomis of Amherst College wrote in June, 191 5, as follows: "I
have in the Amherst Collections several implements from Arkansas and other
nearer localities made from material which doubtless came from these quarries,
so they must have been visited by tribes far and near, or at least the material
must have been traded widely. I know of no other place where the quarrying
of rock for making stone implements was carried on to anywhere near as large
an extent."
Here is an excerpt from my last post that caught my eye. It's under the section titled The Rock Implements Found.
Tons of cores left just in the beginning of being shaped are found round
the pits and shop sites. As to other rock manufactures, R. F. Gilder says:
"Strange stone figures of immense proportions representing human beings and
thousands of stone cairns are strewn over the landscape for many miles."
Tons of cores left just in the beginning of being shaped are found round
the pits and shop sites. As to other rock manufactures, R. F. Gilder says:
"Strange stone figures of immense proportions representing human beings and
thousands of stone cairns are strewn over the landscape for many miles."
Shortstack
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Some very interesting information, Nobody.
For the record, H. Glenn Carson never printed any of KVM's books and booklets, although, he DID put many of KVM's leads into his own books. Seems like Von Mueller wrote once, that he'd deliberately misspelled some names in a few of his published leads to see who he could "flush out" and apparently Carson Enterprises was one of them. Although Karl von Mueller published most of his books under his own banner, Exanimo Press, Weeping Water, Nebraska. he DID have some printed by RAM Publishing, owned by his friend and often times, hunting partner and collaborator, Charles Garrett. That is how Von Mueller came to write the book, The Master Hunter as the definitive authority on how to get the most out of Garrett's BFO detector THE MASTER HUNTER. Garrett asked him to completely wring out the detector and write about the good, bad, and ugly things he found about the machine.
I, too, bought Carson's books until I realized along in the early 1990s, that he was just reprinting leads from OTHER people's books without giving them recognition in a bibliography. I also found typographical errors in his books that were in other books INCLUDING his own. He did not seem to have a very good editorial discipline, so I stopped buying his stuff. After his death, his daughter took over his publishing business.
For the record, H. Glenn Carson never printed any of KVM's books and booklets, although, he DID put many of KVM's leads into his own books. Seems like Von Mueller wrote once, that he'd deliberately misspelled some names in a few of his published leads to see who he could "flush out" and apparently Carson Enterprises was one of them. Although Karl von Mueller published most of his books under his own banner, Exanimo Press, Weeping Water, Nebraska. he DID have some printed by RAM Publishing, owned by his friend and often times, hunting partner and collaborator, Charles Garrett. That is how Von Mueller came to write the book, The Master Hunter as the definitive authority on how to get the most out of Garrett's BFO detector THE MASTER HUNTER. Garrett asked him to completely wring out the detector and write about the good, bad, and ugly things he found about the machine.
I, too, bought Carson's books until I realized along in the early 1990s, that he was just reprinting leads from OTHER people's books without giving them recognition in a bibliography. I also found typographical errors in his books that were in other books INCLUDING his own. He did not seem to have a very good editorial discipline, so I stopped buying his stuff. After his death, his daughter took over his publishing business.
The Arkansas River could be important in determining if your trail is an ancient trail that was used later by more modern groups. It could be that de la Harpe was looking for an ancient trail as well as a green stone.
First Tongue: An early global language
There is another important trail that passes through La Junta. It is the ancient network of trails that stretches from the American southwest to the Mississippi River. Part of this trail became known as the Santa Fe Trail during the 19th century. Bent's Fort is right there by La Junta.
You're welcome. I'm also learning some new things from your posts. Thanks.
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