Ireland : Metal detecting

[robert35]

Let's see how many people there are interested in starting a club? A website can be easily set up..Think I am kinda handy with that, and see what we can achieve by talking to the museum and other sources. Like where I come from (Holland) we had a farely descent arrangement with the local Historians and the head office for archaeology. We could keep anything we found (unless it was of major historical importance) but we had to have everything checked/registered and logged. Which was not a bad deal.
If there are more people interested please let us know and see if we can start Ireland first (legal) MD club and do a test run in Navan..Which sounds like a nice idea!!

Robert

 

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[oneman]

no problem ..you are welcome any time. any ideas on a detector . i am thinking of buying a minelab but not sure which one . is the explorer very complicated for a beginner .i used to have a..c.scope

 

[robert35]

well, I have never bought a simple or easy to use metal detector. I have been using C sope detectors now for 20 years and I am very satisfied. But I have always bought the best or second best, if you budget allows ofcourse. The more you use your detector the easier it gets. After one or two months of intensive usage even the one with the most buttons and options is relatively easy to use.
My advise would be; if you budgets lets you, try a good one..you will learn as you go..!

regarding the meeting , I am busy trying to get my detector overseas and as soon as he is in Ireland we will try to arrange a meeting..By that time I hope to have a website up and running and have hopefully lots of info to share..and hopefully some people to share the hobby with..

Robert

 

[cakequatro]

Hi This is my first post so hello to all especially all mder's in Ireland. I think getting a club together in Ireland is Great. In regards to buying a detector in ireland i bought mine from minelab in cork you don't benefit from the cheap dollar but you have the added bonus of being able to return to the manufacture under warranty also with minelab they offer an excellent service. i bought a Quattro from them and i cant fault it its very easy to see the quality compared to my first detector a bounty hunter Quick draw II. In Regards to the Law issue i received a leaflet from minelab stating the law in ireland and what to do if you find an artifact basically the law is as above but it stated that if you do find anything of importance you must leave in the ground and call the gardi and only remove if in danger of being destroyed but you wont know till you have it out catch 22 (i must fish the leaflet out). normally i search Beach's but if I'm detecting a field i first check www.archeology.ie to see make sure I'm nowhere near a registered site. i then go out detecting with my handheld gps and digital camera in tow just in case i find anything major. i haven't found anything yet but if i did i would take a couple of pics and log the location. report it then to the appropriate people. I hope this all makes sence i hope we can get a club going it would be great.

 

[AN Oul Fella told me..]

Hello to everyone on the forum. Found this site recently and been trawling it since. Amazing stories and finds. I have always been interested in history and a Polish friend got me interested in metal detecting. When I told him about the law here he was amazed but doesn't really care. I live in Wexford and there are some great fields here that I would love to try out. I enquired about a Garrett 250 from kellyco but with the laws it is hardly worthwhile. I think for me the thrill of finding coins and trash on the beach might soon wear off. And going by the amount of rubbish people here throw away the beaches must be hard going. I think setting up a club would be a great idea. I saw that advert in the Argos catalogue for the probably quite useless detector, and it seems to be breaking the law,(National Monuments Act Amendment 1987). However, I do believe the above act could be easily challenged. If one had deep pockets of course! Has any you folks metal detecting on beaches, etc, ever been challenged? I am dropping hints about my interest in a metal detector so maybe Santy might bring one. Good to see that there are others interested here in Ireland.

 

[spudkin1002]

Hi,

There's been a couple of topics on this forum regarding Ireland and the law on metal detecting. I'm based in Dublin and hunt on public beaches for coins.

The law is very wrong and in my opinion would be thrown out if contested in the European Courts. It was obviously written by a bored, incompetent civil servant with nothing better to do.

It basically states (from what I can discern) that while it is not illegal to buy or own a metal detector, it appears to be illegal to use one anywhere that the state decides could be of archaeological significance. This could mean your back garden if they so decide. Section 40 (See below for full text) implies : If found in possession of a metal detector you are presumed guilty of searching for archaeological artefacts, until found innocent. Lets reflect on that. Guilty until proven innocent. This is totally undemocratic and would, in my opinion, be thrown out if contested in the European court.

Source http://www.ncmd.co.uk/law.htm#SOUTHERN_IRELAND

SOUTHERN IRELAND The National Monuments (Amendment) Act
1987
(Section 2) states:

Subject to the provisions of this section a person shall not:

1a: Use or be in possession of a detection device in, or at the site of, a monument
of which the Commissioners or a local authority are the owners or guardians or in
respect of which a preservation order is in force or which stands registered in the
Register or

2a. in an archaeological area that stands registered in the Register or

3a. in a Registered area

OR

b: Use, at a place other than a place specified in paragraph a of this subsection, a detection device for the purpose of searching for archaeological objects or

c: Promote, whether by advertising or otherwise, the sale or use of detection
devices for the purpose of searching for archaeological objects.

Note: `Archaeological area' is defined as ` an area which the Commissioners
consider to be of archaeological importance but does not include the area of a
historical monument standing entered in the Register'.

Section 40 states that `Where in a prosecution for an offence under this section it
is proved that a detection device was used, it shall be presumed until the contrary
is proved that the device was being used for the purpose of searching for
archaeological objects'.

<End quote>

I'd also like to add that Minelab has it's European factory producing Metal detectors in Co Cork and has many Youtube vids of officials teaching how to use the Explorer SE on public beaches in Ireland. Go fig


hello
i am living in ireland and used to go out mding and one day i found a artifact i did not want to give it to the authorities fearing i would get in trouble but after 5 years i eventually sent it to the dublin history museum.a women from the museum met with me i told her the circumstances in which i found the thing she was appaled and basiccally gave me a bollocking for finding it.she told me i should not be metaldetecting at all in ireland was not very interested in where about i had found it.it left me feeling very biiter about the whole affair.the law here is shite makes no sense at all.

 

[spudkin1002]

hi
i live in ireland.5 years ago i found a artifact of sorts with my md.i held on to it for 5 years because i was afraid to get into trouble by handing it up.then i sent a message to the dublin history museum.a women got back to me she seemed pleasent enough,she arranged for us to meet .when i met all she did was give me a bollocking for useing a md.she said you can not use them anywhere in ireland.she wasnt that interested about the find or where exactly i had found it.now she has all my details address and stuff.i am very bitter about that.our gorvernment destroys more archaeological sites every year bloody year,waterford viking site hill of tara ect.

 

[spudkin1002]

the best thing to do in ireland is get the permission of the farmer if he is okay about go ahead and md.if you find anything of national importance send it to the national history museum dublin.

 

[DJ_Quinn]

hi
i live in ireland.5 years ago i found a artifact of sorts with my md.i held on to it for 5 years because i was afraid to get into trouble by handing it up.then i sent a message to the dublin history museum.a women got back to me she seemed pleasent enough,she arranged for us to meet .when i met all she did was give me a bollocking for useing a md.she said you can not use them anywhere in ireland.she wasnt that interested about the find or where exactly i had found it.now she has all my details address and stuff.i am very bitter about that.our gorvernment destroys more archaeological sites every year bloody year,waterford viking site hill of tara ect.

Hey Paul, how;s it going? Been back to Knocknanause yet?

 

[AndyIreland]

So any clubs up and going yet?
I'm new to MDing, have a ace 250 living in the south east

 

[AndyIreland]

normally i search Beach's but if I'm detecting a field i first check www.archeology.ie to see make sure I'm nowhere near a registered site.

that site doesn't seem to work, anyone know the proper link?

 

[cakequatro]

www.archaeology.ie
sorry dam dyslexia

 

[alarmstudio]

any chance of reviving this topic I live in Ireland and definitely see the need for all MD's to come together and work as a group, maybe set up a club and find a way of enjoying our hobby without having to worry where the law stands. (I don't think they know themselves?) It's very vague...
There now is a factory/shop selling Viking detectors in Cork, just saw the ad in Buy&Sell. maybe they can help?

 

[rayredditch]

I have just moved to Northern Ireland, and have a Crown Permit for foreshores, but don´t know if I require a permit here seperate from this to do beach detecting ??
I know I need one for land detecting, but just want to do beach detecting here, anyone know the rulkes for Benone, Castlerock, Portrush etc

 

[pat1011]

I have just moved to Northern Ireland, and have a Crown Permit for foreshores, but don´t know if I require a permit here seperate from this to do beach detecting ??
I know I need one for land detecting, but just want to do beach detecting here, anyone know the rulkes for Benone, Castlerock, Portrush etc

I was told once you are safe if you detect on beach in between low and high tide area.

 

[kajo]

Would anybody know what became of the Metal Detecting Society of Ireland?
What would be best to setup as a pressure group to change things a little more in favour of the hobbyist a Society or Association?
Reading some of the debates by the irish government at the time the law changed it looks like they wanted to allow the hobby but ended up throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
I would think the law is outdated by technology and this might make it a good time to seek change or review of the law.
I am sure this forum must have members with a good legal eye for detail did you spot any weakness in the law?


http://irishmetaldetecting.com/
http://z13.invisionfree.com/IrishMetalDetecting/

 

[collectorconor]

Obviously the person who wrote up the irish detecting laws was someone sitting around with nothing else to do,someone that hadnt the first clue about detecting in the first place.And the reason Ireland doesnt give you anything if you hand something into the state,is because ireland cant afford it.WHY SHOULD WE HAND SOMETHING IN,if we dont get anything for it.Id hold on to anything valuable,and just guard it with my life.

 

[Conan]

Hi all,

I have read this thread from start to finish and it seems that the idea of an Irish club is still being worked out on the Irish Metal Detecting forum.

Anyway I would be interested if the idea reignites.

Reading the laws posted above I can't see where it says you can't detect on land that is not near a registered archaeological site or area of historical significance.... Maybe I'm not reading it right, but I don't see a problem in having an association that meets on private land for some knowledge sharing and speculative M-ding.

It would be nice to get a proper legal opinion on the wording and not a biassed historical professional's opinion.

Anyway, If someone wants to meet and spend a few hours pottering about let me know. I'm in the mid-west.

 

[tricasgood]

Hello Lads!

I just hit a hard brick wall!! I have purchased a metal detector about year ago from Detectors Ireland after I was ensured by them, that possession and use (without intention of looking for archaeological) of metal detector is completely legal. Although after recent case where some metal detectorists were caught and prosecuted I started to question legality of this activity. So I have contacted National Museum explaining my position and concern. I got a response from Mr. Eamonn Kelly in which he states that I was "misled as to the legal position regarding metal detecting and that I was, or had been in possession of archaeological objects that were unreported as is required by law" - in relation to some clips I have posted on Youtube about metal detecting. Also Mr. Kelly reckons that: "It is the unequivocal advice of both the National Museum and the National Monuments Service that people should not engage in general searches for objects as to do so may leave them at risk of prosecution and will inevitably result in damage to the heritage. Licenses to search for archaeological objects are only given for searches that are conducted in specific areas as part of licensed archaeological projects." I'm devastated and literally feeling raped by injustice of Irish Law when it comes to this matter. The Irish Heritage won't be discovered in another 1000 years if National Museum and Government won't work over fair policy and award system for people who'd enjoy and be part of the history by exploring and discovering what's buried under the ground.Just look how Metal Detectorists over in UK enjoying this beautiful hobby while we can't. Now I will have to stop my activities and return most if not all of the finds to avoid prosecution, following by Mr. Kelly: "As you have contacted the museum and explained that you were acting in innocence of the correct legal position I will not be making any complaint to the Gardaí on the matter. However it will be necessary for you to provide full reports on objects that you have discovered on the required statutory finders forms and to hand over the items. Please send me your address and I will have the Duty Officer send you the relevant forms. I can arrange for a museum official to visit you to view the finds and to assist you in providing full information on the finds and the locations of discovery". I will try to find a solution to this issue and It would be great if we could get signatures and run Civil Suit against the State to the European Tribunal of Justice. This is one of my saddest days so far...Metal Detecting should be legal in Ireland!!

 

[Deadpan]

Hello Lads!

I just hit a hard brick wall!! I have purchased a metal detector about year ago from Detectors Ireland after I was ensured by them, that possession and use (without intention of looking for archaeological) of metal detector is completely legal. Although after recent case where some metal detectorists were caught and prosecuted I started to question legality of this activity. So I have contacted National Museum explaining my position and concern. I got a response from Mr. Eamonn Kelly in which he states that I was "misled as to the legal position regarding metal detecting and that I was, or had been in possession of archaeological objects that were unreported as is required by law" - in relation to some clips I have posted on Youtube about metal detecting. Also Mr. Kelly reckons that: "It is the unequivocal advice of both the National Museum and the National Monuments Service that people should not engage in general searches for objects as to do so may leave them at risk of prosecution and will inevitably result in damage to the heritage. Licenses to search for archaeological objects are only given for searches that are conducted in specific areas as part of licensed archaeological projects." I'm devastated and literally feeling raped by injustice of Irish Law if it comes to this matter. The Irish Heritage won't be discovered in another 1000 years if National Museum and Government won't work over fair policy and award system for people who'd to enjoy and be a part of history by exploring and discovering what's buried under the ground.Just look how Metal Detectorists over in UK enjoying this beautiful hobby while we can't. Now I will have to stop my activities and return most if not all of the things I have found to avoid prosecution, following by Mr. Kelly: "As you have contacted the museum and explained that you were acting in innocence of the correct legal position I will not be making any complaint to the Gardaí on the matter. However it will be necessary for you to provide full reports on objects that you have discovered on the required statutory finders forms and to hand over the items. Please send me your address and I will have the Duty Officer send you the relevant forms. I can arrange for a museum official to visit you to view the finds and to assist you in providing full information on the finds and the locations of discovery". I will try to find solution for this issue and It would be grate if we could gather signatures and run Civil Suit against the State to the European Tribunal of Justice. This is one of my saddest days so far...Metal Detecting should be legal in Ireland!!

Have you contacted Metal Detectors Ireland to ask them about this ? What metal detectors are you referring to that were prosecuted ? The only prosecution that I have read of in recent years was a father and son who were prosecuted for possessing Artefacts but they were not prosecuted for possession of their metal detectors.? I have also read a post by one of the sons of the actual facts of the case which differ completely from the scaremongering newspaper article which included an interview with Mr Kelly.

Also what made you contact the museum to ask for their advice instead of the police ? Archaeologists seem to think that a member of the general public using a metal detector is akin to handing a scalpel to a lay person and allowing them to operate! (Which in my opinion is extremely arrogant!) With all due respect to Mr Kelly he seems to be doing exactly what they don't want other people to do i.e. someone elses job! He is interpreting a very unclear law which he is not qualified to do as he is neither solicitor nor judge.

By the way I do not see anywhere in the law where it say that you have to give your address to Mr Kelly or that you have to fill out "statutory forms", you are of course required to hand over your finds but sure can't you just post them and include some details on where they were found ? I have read on other forums of people meeting a representative of the museum to hand over their finds and instead of being met with some interest in where they found the objects they were met with a stony faced curate and a huge lecture on the illegality of metal detectors.

I personally cannot understand the museums stance on this, they seem to enjoy trying to frighten the bejasus out of people into not using metal detectors with their threats of the police and jail terms. Instead of trying to educate hobbyists on the importance of handing over any accidental finds they frighten them into being too afraid to hand them over at all. It also says on the National Museum website that if you find an object in a legitimate manner you are paid finder’s reward, well the "legitimate" part means that if you find it with a metal detector you get squat! Not exactly encouraging, now is it ?? They also seem to think it better that the next Ardagh Hoard remain buried forever or chewed up by a plough rather than have someone find it with a metal detector. Go figure!

Maybe every hobbyist out there should start bombarding the museum with every piece of junk they find.. Just in case it's an artefact! You wouldn't want to end up in prison for keeping some Viking nose ring that you thought was from a beer can, now would you!