Is a certain PSI ability needed or useful for Lrl"s? Dowsing yes.

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: Is a certain PSI ability needed or useful for Lrl"s? Dowsing yes.

EE you posted to Judy -->Considering the topic title....What is your point?

*****************
Hmm I rather thought that it was clear and to the point, after all one needs to establish the basics first no?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

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[aarthrj3811]

Re: Is a certain PSI ability needed or useful for Lrl"s? Dowsing yes.

~Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp~

EE you posted to Judy -->Considering the topic title....What is your point?

*****************
Hmm I rather thought that it was clear and to the point, after all one needs to establish the basics first no?

Both you and Judy are correct. But when you have so many theories it makes no difference.
A Dozen Points Proving LRL Fraud

1. There is no standard electronics explanation for the devices ever working.

2. The movement of the swivel pointer or rods is not powered by the devices.

3. Makers and owners of these devices refuse to take a random double-blind test, even with rewards offered of one million dollars to prove they work, and twenty five thousand dollars for scoring only 70% success.

4. LRL promoters refuse to approve of a credentialed professional organization at which to have their devices or schematics evaluated, such as a university or government agency.

5. LRL promoters refuse to approve of a, or suggest their own, protocol for a fair random double-blind test.

6. LRL promoters refuse to state whether their devices are dowsers, dowsing enhancers, or all-electronically operated units.

7. LRL promoters refuse to state the average percentage of success, under optimal test conditions, that their devices reliably have.

8. LRL promoters cannot provide a rational answer to why there are no news stories and pictures of treasures being found with LRLs, like there are for standard metal detectors, both in the Main Stream Media and here on the forum. The point here is that they make the claim that LRLs can find much more treasure than conventional metal detectors, because they can search more ground faster due to the "Long Range" of the LRL devices. But common sense says that if this were so, then there would be way more news stories about them and the treasure they found, instead of...zero news reports.

9. LRL promoters cannot provide a rational answer to why the LRL makers, and promoters, and their alleged testimonials, are the only people who claim to have found anything with them.

10. LRL promoters refuse to approve of any local metal detector club or local high school science class doing a random double-blind demonstration using their devices.

11. LRL promoters cannot provide a rational answer to why their devices would be worth anything, if they cannot achieve a reliable success rate of only 70% under controlled test conditions. The point being that a controlled test would eliminate any possible interference, which is said by the LRLers to always be a possible problem, and it would reduce the infinite possibility of target locations at various distances, and in 360 degrees of direction, down to only ten, exact and visable, possible target locations, making it much easier to succeed in a test than "in the field." (In a test with a series of ten tries, 50% overall success would be the average rate for simply guessing, without any equipment at all!)

12. LRL promoters mainstay response, to these issues, or any other challenge to their claims, is to insult the challenger, or give a nonsensical reply, rather than offer responsive data. When someone does this, it is an indication that they have no rational data to offer.


Do you see any Scientific Prove in these statements?

 

[EE THr]

Re: Is a certain PSI ability needed or useful for Lrl"s? Dowsing yes.

EE you posted to Judy -->Considering the topic title....What is your point?

*****************
Hmm I rather thought that it was clear and to the point, after all one needs to establish the basics first no?

Don Jose de La Mancha

Big J's post was clearly vague. Was it supposed to be in the Paranormal Section? Was it an attempt to prove that psychic abilities exist? Was it an attempt to admit that PSI abilities are needed for LRLs? What was it establishing?

Generally, a Ph.D. knows enough to identify the purpose of a message; or at least who it is addressed to, and better yet quote what it is in response to. (Of course, they also should be able to speak for themselves.)

 

[EE THr]

Re: Is a certain PSI ability needed or useful for Lrl"s? Dowsing yes.

~Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp~

EE you posted to Judy -->Considering the topic title....What is your point?

*****************
Hmm I rather thought that it was clear and to the point, after all one needs to establish the basics first no?

Both you and Judy are correct. But when you have so many theories it makes no difference.
A Dozen Points Proving LRL Fraud

Do you see any Scientific Prove in these statements?

How do you figure that my A Dozen Points Proving LRL Fraud page somehow relates to the Topic Title of this thread?

Please explain your post.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: Is a certain PSI ability needed or useful for Lrl"s? Dowsing yes.

~EE~

How do you figure that my A Dozen Points Proving LRL Fraud page somehow relates to the Topic Title of this thread?

Please explain your post.

Your claim that LRL’s are just dowsing rods..the name of you’re thread is A Dozen Points Proving LRL Fraud...Your claim not mine...
6. LRL promoters refuse to state whether their devices are dowsers, dowsing enhancers, or all-electronically operated units.

 

[EE THr]

Re: Is a certain PSI ability needed or useful for Lrl"s? Dowsing yes.

~EE~

How do you figure that my A Dozen Points Proving LRL Fraud page somehow relates to the Topic Title of this thread?

Please explain your post.

Your claim that LRL’s are just dowsing rods..the name of you’re thread is A Dozen Points Proving LRL Fraud...Your claim not mine...
6. LRL promoters refuse to state whether their devices are dowsers, dowsing enhancers, or all-electronically operated units.

Art---

Look at the top of this page. Or just at the top of this post. In both of those places you will find the name of the thread. It's, "Re: Is a certain PSI ability needed or useful for Lrl"s? Dowsing yes."

It's not my topic. RDT started it.

I have no idea why you are spamming this thread by whining about one of my topics.

 

[EddieR]

Re: Is a certain PSI ability needed or useful for Lrl"s? Dowsing yes.

~EE~

How do you figure that my A Dozen Points Proving LRL Fraud page somehow relates to the Topic Title of this thread?

Please explain your post.

Your claim that LRL’s are just dowsing rods..the name of you’re thread is A Dozen Points Proving LRL Fraud...Your claim not mine...
6. LRL promoters refuse to state whether their devices are dowsers, dowsing enhancers, or all-electronically operated units.

Art---

Look at the top of this page. Or just at the top of this post. In both of those places you will find the name of the thread. It's, "Re: Is a certain PSI ability needed or useful for Lrl"s? Dowsing yes."

It's not my topic. RDT started it.

I have no idea why you are spamming this thread by whining about one of my topics.

Umm.....maybe 'cause you "referenced" it in your posts? ...#114....#116...#118....#120....and that's just on this page.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: Is a certain PSI ability needed or useful for Lrl"s? Dowsing yes.

~EddieR~

Umm.....maybe 'cause you "referenced" it in your posts? ...#114....#116...#118....#120....and that's just on this page.

You are correct...He came to this board and made a bunch of posts that he now calls his prove. When it is pointed out that he is wrong he gets insulted but keeps referring people to his threads...When we refer people to his threads that prove his complete lack of knowledge about LRL’s we are some how off topic...Art

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: Is a certain PSI ability needed or useful for Lrl"s? Dowsing yes.

Hey Judy and Real...I find this very interesting...As a dowser and a LRL owner/user I do not think that LRL’s have anything to do with dowsing. With the old rod types where the signal is found tells me that. Yes I use many of the same methods in both kinds of treasure hunter...I do not think about what I am doing. I think about a movie or a pleasant experience. I know that my mind will not allow me to get in a danger...It will not allow me to walk over a cliff or be bitten by a snake... I use no mental input when using either discipline...Art

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: Is a certain PSI ability needed or useful for Lrl"s? Dowsing yes.

I hope this helps...when in the field I have decided what targets I want to seek. I have picked a set of Dowsing rods that are baited for that kind of target or I have set the LRL or MFD to the proper frequency for that target, so that has been put into my mind. After that I do not think about the target until the target signal is found. With the Dowsing Rods or the old rod type LRL’s I then have to follow the signal to the target before I can get any more information about it. With one of my LRL’s I can determine the weight, depth and distance to the target from the spot where I detected the signal.
I have found that I can dodge trees and large boulders while thinking about any thing else but what I am doing. I think that I am just letting the devices do what they do with out trying to influence them...I have experimented using mental input and have not located targets very successful using that method...Art

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: Is a certain PSI ability needed or useful for Lrl"s? Dowsing yes.

~Judy~

Can you get the same results if someone else "baits" the rod or "sets the frequency" on the LRL....without personal knowledge of the bait or settings they used? In other words....can you get results without "putting it (the target)" in your mind?

I do not remember ever trying that...I seldom have gone on a hunt without first Dowsing a map and then finding roads that will get me in the area. So I have known of the target for a while. I then drive down the road I have chosen with a baited dowsing rod until I locate a signal. I stop and take GPS readings and then go to a road that runs in a different direction and do the same thing. I can then triangulate the exact location of the target... Now I can find the easiest way to get there...
This works great when chasing treasure stories..Art

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: Is a certain PSI ability needed or useful for Lrl"s? Dowsing yes.

~Judy~

I am curious if any other LRL users could answer the same question for me?

Most of the owner/operators have been chased off. As you know from the dowsing forum many Dowsers do not agree with me. Some do...All I can do is tell people how Dowsing and LRL’s work for me...Art

 

[EE THr]

Re: Is a certain PSI ability needed or useful for Lrl"s? Dowsing yes.

...we can try to "police" ourselves and our own behavior....

I think you posted that particular suggestion in the wrong place.

I would be more appropriate here.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: Is a certain PSI ability needed or useful for Lrl"s? Dowsing yes.

~Judy~

I know, Art....and I appreciate the fact that you do want to share what works for you. I also know that many have been chased off this forum by virulent skeptical criticism and by certain posters who continue to badger anyone who will acknowledge them. This is something I hope will change in the future...but am not gonna hold my breath for.

Meanwhile, we can either let this section of the forum dry up (which would truly be a shame )...or we can try to "police" ourselves and our own behavior, and carry on with the subject at hand as best we can. My choice is obvious. I would like the opportunity to explore the subject further....and with that objective in mind, I advance the question I asked of you to any other LRL users who might be inclined to offer their assistance.

~EE~

Quote from: JudyH on Nov 06, 2011, 05:13:54 PM

...we can try to "police" ourselves and our own behavior....
I think you posted that particular suggestion in the wrong place.
I would be more appropriate here.

You are correct EE...That is where you should be posting... http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/board,299.0.html

 

[EddieR]

Re: Is a certain PSI ability needed or useful for Lrl"s? Dowsing yes.

...we can try to "police" ourselves and our own behavior....

I think you posted that particular suggestion in the wrong place.

I would be more appropriate here.

uuuummmm....okay. You said it, nobody else did!

For once we agree!

 

[10claw]

Re: Is a certain PSI ability needed or useful for Lrl"s? Dowsing yes.

hey real de, you said swr be's you friend? well, don't mess with his 50 sweeties, you catch something you can't wash off. he he
is it 50 sweeties or 70 virgins in heaven?

 

[humble]

Re: Is a certain PSI ability needed or useful for Lrl"s? Dowsing yes.

Question for LRL Users.....


Can you get positive results if someone else "baits" the rod or "sets the frequency" on the LRL....without personal knowledge of the bait or settings they used? In other words....can you get positive results without "putting it (the target)" in Your mind?




Absolutely! No mental input required. For that reason even the harshest critics here could learn to use LRL, IF, they wished to do so. humble

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: Is a certain PSI ability needed or useful for Lrl"s? Dowsing yes.

Allo mi Judy, you posted -->Can you get the same results if someone else "baits" the rod or "sets the frequency" on the LRL....without personal knowledge of the bait or settings they used? In other words....can you get results without "putting it (the target)" in your mind?
************

Here lies another glitch in this type of activity, can you completely eliminate a subsconscious mental transference of the data? I.E, telepathy for you ignernt furineres - Canadians ! --> you know who.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[humble]

Re: Is a certain PSI ability needed or useful for Lrl"s? Dowsing yes.

Jose, I for one would never deny the power of the human mind, or the associated bio-sensors throughout the human body. Most of the volunteers I have worked with did not accept, or consciously utilize their inherent PSI abilities.

Although sub-conscious abilities can never be totally ruled out, especially in Scientific testing, I make every effort and precaution to maintain LRL testing on a conscious level.

Judy, a common fallacy presented by the Skeptic organization is that LRL's only work when a target is visible to the operator, or a hand held L-Rod can only be physically moved in the direction of a target via a mentally influenced ideomoter muscle reflex.

Their argument does not account for several privately owned electronic LRL's that have been invented, tested, and used successfully during the past 30 years using electronic metering & audio to detect buried targets.

Neither does their argument take into account non-electronic LRL's that utilize the operators sense of Feel, to lock on to the field of a target, even while blindfolded. humble

 

[EE THr]

Re: Is a certain PSI ability needed or useful for Lrl"s? Dowsing yes.

Judy, a common fallacy presented by the Skeptic organization is that LRL's only work when a target is visible to the operator, or a hand held L-Rod can only be physically moved in the direction of a target via a mentally influenced ideomoter muscle reflex.

Their argument does not account for several privately owned electronic LRL's that have been invented, tested, and used successfully during the past 30 years using electronic metering & audio to detect buried targets.

Neither does their argument take into account non-electronic LRL's that utilize the operators sense of Feel, to lock on to the field of a target, even while blindfolded. humble

Yes, if anyone could get a currently marketed "LRL" to reliably locate anything, some kind of non-empirical ability would be necessary, because their pseudoelectronics circuitry does nothing in that regard.

There is no evidence that any privately invented "super" LRLs exist, except for some ridiculous claims by a couple of sub-amateur pseudoelectronics wannabes.

And a "non-electronic" LRL would be a dowsing device, by definition.



As I have said before, I have no reason to doubt that someone, somewhere, might be able to find stuff with an LRL, but not because of their so-called "electronic" components.

Lately I have added that I do have reason to believe that none of the LRLers posting on here have ever found anything with an LRL.

I might add that, although there are measurable electromagnetic radiation waves emanating from brains, and measurable electricity inside brains, the same is true for other cells throughout human and animal bodies, and in vegetation.

Also, the electromagnetic energy radiating from cells is of very short range. Using the observations that thoughts can affect others over very long distance spans, to support the idea that cell emanations travel long distances, even though their range has been proven to be short, is a misapplication of logic. There is no reason to conclude that physical "energy" must be responsible for "paranormal" abilities, unless it is being promoted that the soul does not exist, such as with the mantra of Eugenics. None of the "mind is in the brain" claims have ever been scientifically proven, simply because that is not the case.

And that is why an "electronic" device cannot enhance whatever abilities for dowsing a person might have. Because so-called PSI phenomenon do not occur within the physical realm (which includes energy), but they can affect the physical.

I won't argue the existence of the soul, because I am not trying to "convince" anyone about it, but rather I am merely answering the question of the topic title. People can certainly think for themselves on this matter, so trying to convince anyone is not of much help.

But that's my answer....