Is this from the civil war?

[relic lover]

Found this today at my favorite site the full story will be posted in today's finds after I find out what I have here. What is this?

 

[Montana Jim]

I do not know what it is...

But that is a beautiful piece! I would think it's NOT military, but a spectacular patriotic peice, not uncommon at all during the 1700 and 1800s.

I would guess at belt plate or ??

I'm going to enjoy following this one.

Please... can you tell us about what else has been found at the site?

 

[johnnyi]

Fantastic find!!! Your fragment matches an example from the Campbell collection of cap plate, 1812 period. I'll have to do some reading up, but this is very rare and you must put it on "today's finds" so it can be voted Banner!

 

[Montana Jim]

Fantastic find!!! Your fragment matches an example from the Campbell collection of cap plate, 1812 period. I'll have to do some reading up, but this is very rare and you must put it on "today's finds" so it can be voted Banner!

Outstanding! I'm looking forward to seeing an example... there were numerous varieties if I remember right.

 

[johnnyi]

Yes, outtanding indeed! These are so rare that usually one or two exist. Many examples are mere fragments. This example once had a scalloped edge rectangular frame surrounding this central element. It seems pretty clear though that the central feature was saved, peraps remounted on something else when the frame of the design became damaged. Once again, wonderful find and congratulations!

 

[relic lover]

Other finds are 1857 seated dime and 1863 and 64 indian heads and early 1800s buttons

 

[Woodland Detectors]

Fantastic find! Congratulations!

 

[JRich98150]

GASP!! Wonderful plate you've found there!

JRich

 

[johnnyi]

Relic lover, as far as I know there is only one variety of this design, eagle and shield with star. Relic lover, I have the picture of it in front of me, and I'll send it to you privately if you pm my address. (reluctant to post this specific picture as the copyright laws are very srtrict regarding it) Perhaps in the meantime, as you now know what it is, you can get a "no copyright problem" picture off the web.

Anyway, I found a little information as to why it may have been cut down! (remember, your's measured 4 1/4 by 5 3/4 originally)

"On May 19, 1814, the Commisary General of Purchases wrote Lt. Col. J. R. Fenwick, second -in-command oflight artillery. asking his opinion of a new design and stating flatly, "The present light artillery plate is too large by one half"

Your's is the plate he was refering to. Your's is possibly a unique example of a cut down design possibly remounted on a smaller plate. At any rate, your's is extremely rare.

 

[relic lover]

Yes, outtanding indeed! These are so rare that usually one or two exist. Many examples are mere fragments. This example once had a scalloped edge rectangular frame surrounding this central element. It seems pretty clear though that the central feature was saved, peraps remounted on something else when the frame of the design became damaged. Once again, wonderful find and congratulations!

Wow I was thrilled when I thought it was civil war I thought that star looked early though. Thanks for the ID Tell me more if you can!

 

[relic lover]

Thanks guys the story is in todays finds now.

 

[BuckleBoy]

On Second Examination, I do not think this is a cap badge at all. It is a belt plate ca. 1818-1835 with the tongue and bar missing.

Below is a link to a non-dug one (most of the way down the page). Measure the dimensions of the one you found. It should be approximately 64mm by 70mm.

The price is for non-dug. Dug, and with the tongue missing, it will command less than the price listed.

http://www.oldmilitaria.com/1800_s_Militaria.html



Regards,



Buckleboy

 

[johnnyi]

Forgive me Fellas, I jumped the gun on this. it is war of !812, but is the belt plate, not hat badge. (man, should have checked the plates first! Stupid!)
Anyway, it is still very rare (rarity 8)

 

[johnnyi]

Ha! buckles, our posts appeared at the same moment. I apologise for jumping the gun and not checking belt plates first!

 

[BuckleBoy]

Ha! buckles, our posts appeared at the same moment. I apologise for jumping the gun and not checking belt plates first!

No problem. The only thing that threw me for a second was the star above the eagle. I am quite familiar with Civil War plates, but earlier and later militia plates I am not quite as knowledgeable about.


Cheers,


Buckles

 

[johnnyi]

Buckles, what threw me was the immediate illusion that it was cut irregularly with shears! Of course it wasn't. You know what is so weird though? My rational (using the commisary general quote) of why this particular "hat badge" might be cut down smaller actually made sense. Scary how easy it is to go down the wrong road!

 

[scratcher]

Do the 20 stars making up the big star represent 20 states at the time? Approx 1819? Awesome find!

 

[BuckleBoy]

Buckles, what threw me was the immediate illusion that it was cut irregularly with shears! Of course it wasn't. You know what is so weird though? My rational (using the commisary general quote) of why this particular "hat badge" might be cut down smaller actually made sense. Scary how easy it is to go down the wrong road!

Google "clipped corner plate" or look at some of the early militia ones and you'll see a lot of that style.


Regards,


Buckles

 

[johnnyi]

"Do the 20 stars making up the big star represent 20 states at the time? Approx 1819? Awesome find!"

Not according to Kerksis scratcher. He lists this particular design with this number of stars as 1810. This thing is so darn rare!

 

[Montana Jim]

Great work Will...