Is this what US treasure hunters can expect....jail time?

[Tom_in_CA]

Who in the hell in there right mind would put that to "the test". Even if it is legal to detect and then you found a million dollar item who would do THAT? ..........

Limitool, Huh ? You're not advocating "breaking laws" on this family friendly T'net forum are you ??

 

[jeff of pa]

Disclaimer for the Record :

I believe 100% of TreasureNet members would do the Right Thing
on the day they Find a Million Dollar Gold Bar.

or any other Historical Artifact for Real.

We just like to have some fun here playing "What if"

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Right thing to do ...er doing it the right way ...

Disclaimer for the Record :

I believe 100% of TreasureNet members would do the Right Thing
on the day they Find a Million Dollar Gold Bar.

or any other Historical Artifact for Real.

We just like to have some fun here playing "What if"

Big ole gold bar you say....hmmmmm...

melt it with 20% silver, pour it out into small oddly shaped nuggets, tumble with various minerals then appear to have brought it back over a few years from a sluice operation on my claim. pay all the taxes after taking all the luxurious deductions associated with a first class claim operation.

 

[offtrail]

Just saying the police don't have the authority to give or deny permission to hunt. But they can and will sometimes stop and ask if you have permission to dig on that property. In that case it's always best to have permission, I always go to the city safety director and talk to him...I've never been denied permission to hunt city lots, and it's the best feeling digging a lot and having the right to be there. Just my opinion!

 

[Limitool]

Limitool, Huh ? You're not advocating "breaking laws" on this family friendly T'net forum are you ??

Had permission to walk, hunt, drive ATV and explore. But there's a time you just need to keep one's mouth shut. Hell even the folks in CA. who found all the gold coins on THEIR property lost a bunch of it because they wouldn't and/or didn't keep quiet about it.

I'm with Jeff... We're just talking about "What if's"...

Tom... if you dug up an old container with 20-30 gold coins (or many more) from late 1849 thru 1853 on public property you had permission to access and MD would you tell the world? Would you go to the city and say "Look what I found"? Would you give it to them?

I'd photo, video and do a lot of research after such a find... but I sure wouldn't put it all on the line to debate ownership or their "cut".

 

[Mr.T]

It just looks like a shield to me. I would imagine they had better things to do than carry around a map of the stars a four year old could draw.
That archaeologist was having it at all costs, in his case free. Now they are reading too much into it.

It could be a biscuit tin lid for all they know.

The two detectorists go to jail, and countless artifacts go into the smelter in panic.
The archaeologist should have brokered that deal in Switzerland, and continued doing so, on the publicity - saving thousands of relics
from being obliterated. The sooner there's cooperation and trust between casual treasure hunters and archaeologists/governments the better.

I agree with OP.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Had permission to walk, hunt, drive ATV and explore....

Perhaps. But did you "have permission" to keep a bonanza of goodies (a cache) taken from those lands ?

.......

Tom... if you dug up an old container with 20-30 gold coins (or many more) from late 1849 thru 1853 on public property you had permission to access and MD would you tell the world? Would you go to the city and say "Look what I found"? Would you give it to them? .......

If "following the law" meant I needed to declare to that particular public entity (whatever form of public land they were on), then sure. Afterall, this is all about keeping laws, right ? And if the law had things about "removing", "collecting", "harvesting", and "cultural heritage", well ...... gee, what's not to understand ? You're not advocating breaking those type laws right ?

but I sure wouldn't put it all on the line to debate ownership ....

DEBATE OWNERSHIP ?? What's there to "debate" ? The law clearly states that resources on public land (parks, schools, beaches, forests, etc...) are not yours to take home for personal enrichment. As I said, there are certainly (if you asked enough questions , and looked long enough and hard enough) laws that forbid that.

Now obviously, you can see I jest. HOWEVER, when the subject comes up for various entities, and various countries, the silly-ness that I'm describing is EXACTLY WHAT GOES DOWN !! People go asking various bureaucrats and lawyers, and come up with technical laws like I'm citing here. And heaven help the person who says "nah, just do it". They are labeled as someone "advocating" the breaking of laws. Or that they are in "imminent danger of arrests, tickets, etc....".

So in the same way you and most folks can see the sillyness of asking if you can keep goodies you found (and getting silly answers), SO TOO do I sometimes have to wonder, when I read of persons citing rules that forbid you and I from detecting somewhere, turning in all goodies, or entire countries off-limits, etc.... I begin to wonder if such revelations are simply an exercise of the silly-ness I'm trying to portray here.

 

[yakker]

What I don't get is that on the MDing forum and the Native American Artifacts forum I see, read all over the place- with a big fuss- GET PERMISSION. No question about it. DON'T TRESPASS. So, that doesn't apply if the treasure is big enough? We're all good...until we're not? And how about all those mudarkers on the Thames- and other places, finding things which go into museums- unless they're small and relatively insignificant? And what about history? If no one find and shows proof of something happening other than which the history/myth books have taught us, then how will the rest of the world know and change their views? WTF guys? This is a little alarming. I don't even like the implications of the 'jesting' here... if that's what it is. And YES, I do get that there are an awful lot of crappy archies stashing things away where no one can see or appreciate and learn from them. And I get that there are places where hunting should be permitted and it's not. Especially if there's history to be learned and NOT at the cost of someone's heritage. But that's not really the point here. It's kinda like saying "Yeah, sure, I'll return that dog tag or high school ring- because it's the right thing to do".. ethical and all that. But not when it comes to something which could change the understanding of our past history as humans... nooooo. That's just crossing the @$%$# line.
Really? Kinda makes y'all look like a bunch of thugs on the take. Makes the rest of us look bad, IMHO.

 

[jeff of pa]

I think you just need a sense of Humor.

It's no different then seeing all the Gold in Fort Knox
and joking about Sneaking out with that one Bar they will never miss

Oh & for the Record... Arrrrr

But don't worry It's only a Post.
I'm too far from the ocean to become a pirate

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

I think you just need a sense of Humor.

It's no different then seeing all the Gold in Fort Knox
and joking about Sneaking out with that one Bar they will never miss

Oh & for the Record... Arrrrr

But don't worry It's only a Post.
I'm too far from the ocean to become a pirate

I would be modding from a hammock on the beach in Tahiti while sipping a Mai Tai as topless girls walked by.

 

[-Taz-]

"Interesting" (or sad) to see that most of the people in this thread would be banned from every club and forum we have up here with the mindset you have.

 

[-Taz-]

I think we realize that a person can't go topless everywhere.

Well here you can go topless without beeing fined or arrested, but you can´t plunder the countries history....go figure...

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

"Interesting" (or sad) to see that most of the people in this thread would be banned from every club and forum we have up here with the mindset you have.

A sense of humor is worth a fortune....

 

[yakker]

Yes it is (the necessity for a sense of humor). But I still wonder about all the "With permission"s I see. In the N.A. forums we kinda keep to that. Surface hunting is one thing. Digging is another. Everyone has an attitude when it comes to annihilating a N.A. mound (I do too), but not with your everyday human history artifact which could change the tide of how we think about homo sapiens... C'mon. Why do the rules change when it comes to MDing vs. N.A. artifact hunting? Digging is digging. I personally hunt wash-outs. Water. Recently I have permission to hunt a field. So, when you say you have permission, you don't really? Not all that necessary? Not a second thought to the over-all picture of the value/worth of the piece vs what you may get for it on the open market- or the bragging rights among your community of hunters? There used to be ample cred. for discoveries which could lend meat to an anthropological find. Doesn't feel like there's much respect for that around these days. Maybe it's the economy. Maybe if the entities which would house and display such relics would compensate a finder?? Is that it?
And no. My mindset isn't all about squashing everyone's discoveries. That's not my point at all. My point is, if you find something of immense importance, don't you think it's equally important to report that discovery... or do you let it languish in some frame for God knows how long... decades, maybe even centuries, until it's re'discovered' and found to be the most important thing since the freaking wheel? But no one thought of that while it was in gramp's box in the attic... just another 'thing'... Yakker.
p.s. Yes, I do get what you all are saying. Wouldn't we all be in jail,, yadda yadda. But in this case. I think the argument changes a little bit. This is different. And if you're going to say that keeping and hiding all finds is an important right, well, I guess I think you're wrong. That's how mis-history gets established and prolonged for WAY too long. Hiding things. Not being up-front about discoveries. Aren't we all wondering how and when people initially came to what we now call the United States? How would we possibly know if not for disclosed discoveries? Yakker

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Yakker it is hard to tell what your referring to. Are you talking about Indian artifacts or a gold ring found on the beach?

 

[yakker]

How can I- much-less anyone argue against the needs of a person, a family? Not I. We do what we must. But consider too that there is always the possibility of 'more' whether you believe or not. Perhaps the 'chef' who becomes a researcher among local pros. Career change. Income. Finds happiness and fulfillment in a different realm... It's not impossible. Count how many people who log on 1-10 times only to ask what the value is of something-or-other.... So, when someone says that they could eat a meal off this particular disc- not knowing what it was... that 'a child could make it'... honestly, I wonder... So many people have made a living from this hobby, but so many are so ready to exploit it too- for solely selfish reasons, it would appear. And in their haste, they are/can be blind to the wealth which can come from discovery and shared knowledge. Consider, if no one shared their understanding of the world, we wouldn't have certain pieces of art...or accurate maps. We wouldn't know about the various bones, newest dino-discoveries, etc. etc. etc. In other words, we would still be condemning Galileo. All flat. The stars mean nothing. Nothing to see here. And where would we got those great maps and dosuments we research all the time for zone ripe with artifacts if it were not for someone disclosing information??

TreasureHunter--What does it matter in this particular case? We're talking about a relic of historic proportions. How can one keep something they know nothing about in their homes --or sell it to 'anyone'- and not take responsibility for what might have come of its discovery? I think this is worthy of discussion and not just a blow-off ..'well, if it was me...' chat. This is what this web forum is all about.

Perhaps I have not been clear about the context of my 'rant'. This thread started as a topic concerning an object here-to-for unknown. It changed the context in which we, as artifact hunters, regard our finds. To keep that knowledge secret or cloaked under the wool of black-market sales seems not to be what it's all about. Perhaps I'm wrong.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

If someone chooses to keep what they legally find that does not make them selfish, greedy or exploiting anyone....

 

[yakker]

I get that TH. It's all about this: This thread started as a topic concerning an object here-to-for unknown. In the context of human history and not military or high school history, this might just be something to consider. The 'right to' and ethics are different things. This is not a ring on the beach. And yes, I get that people have the right to keep rings and jewelry and other lost items. This is not that. Apples and oranges.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

I get that TH. It's all about this: This thread started as a topic concerning an object here-to-for unknown. In the context of human history and not military or high school history, this might just be something to consider. The 'right to' and ethics are different things. This is not a ring on the beach. And yes, I get that people have the right to keep rings and jewelry and other lost items. This is not that. Apples and oranges.

None of the finders were TN members, it has nothing to do with TN other than being a treasure found by 2 men in Germany so why are you attacking TreasureNet forum?

 

[Limitool]

Tom of CA.... "Perhaps. But did you "have permission" to keep a bonanza of goodies (a cache) taken from those lands ?" I seeked nor asked no more permission to keep a long lost cache or a spring Morel mushroom. Who the hell goes out thinking there going to find a bunch of gold coins?

Tom & yakker, Just a "what if question" for ya. If you had permission to access some property would you honestly tell them beforehand "If I find a cache I'll let ya know"? What if you found some gold coins in an old sack or leather container. Among the many coins were 8 gold $1.00 gold coins no larger than your thumbnail. Of those $1.00 coins 2 were 1849-C's. Both in GREAT SHAPE!!!.? Tell me what you would do... please.

But we're just doing pretend here... Point being.. if YOU had permissions to drive, explore, hunt, travel and roam why would you tell "them" if I find a bunch of coins or mushrooms I'll let ya know.



Quote Originally Posted by Limitool View Post