John Kochera mining claims.

[Matthew Roberts]

Johnny Kochera 1996

Almost everyone has heard the story of Kochera finding a leather bag filled with gold ore on Peters Mesa in the 1960's.

But few know of Kochera's mining claims filed in the early 1980's, almost 20 years after his Peters Mesa discovery.

John Kochera filed 3 mining claims, one each in 1981, 1982 and 1983. The claim names were the Little Dutchman #1, #2, and #3.

All three claims were in East Boulder canyon on the east side of Palamino Mountain almost due east from the highest point on Palamino (2738 ft.) and about half way up the mountainside.

The claims were Arizona Mining Claim numbers AMC 148343, 188588 and 204659. All were lode claims filed in Maricopa County in T1N. R9E. SEC 1 and 12.

A second man's name, Joe King, appears with these mining claim work assessments. But there is no Joe King, his real name was Joe Kochera, Johns brother.

As the wilderness act took effect in 1984 John Kochera tried to sell these claims to several people in Arizona. Years ago I looked for these claims but couldn't find any claim markers. There were however several serious digging in the area I doubt if the Kochera's had anything to do with.

The co-ordinates for the claims are given as 33.4550 N. and 111.3860 W.

Are there any Google earth experts who can get a clear picture of this area? There is something I remember from there that might show up on satellite image.

 

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[Barber..]

Edit.. Wrong area..

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Thanks Barber, appreciate the effort. I was looking for a trench dug across a fault on the side of Palamino mountain about where the Kochera claim would have been. It would have to be quite close to make it out although the trench material was light color and the rest of the rock around it dark.

The co-ordinates given are the BLM's, not mine so don't know how accurate they are but are in the ballpark. Thanks again Barber !
Matthew

 

[coazon de oro]

Howdy Mr. Roberts,

Those coordinates are almost directly East from the highest peak of Palomino Mountain, but they are on top of Blacktop Mesa.
I had been trying to post some g.e. images on the Tayopa thread, but for some reason they never did load. What I could do is send you a several clear g.e. images from different dates of the East side of Palomino Mountain. If they help, maybe you could load them here?

Homar

 

[Gregory E. Davis]

Good afternoon all: Directly east of the highest point on Palomino Mountain puts you in an exact line with the ORO half sun burst marking on top of Blacktop Mesa. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

 

[Gregory E. Davis]

Good afternoon All: In addition to my last post, The Pierce Mines on the west side of Black Top Mesa and are also in an exact line from the top of Palomino Mountain and the ORO half sun burst marking on the top of Black Top Mesa. The Pierce Mines are a very extensive group of tunnels dug into the west side of Black Top Mesa. They are located about where the talus slop meets the base of the cliffs. Pierce was not the only person to have worked this area. I might add that directly above the north entrance to the tunnels are two twin pinnacles. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Howdy Mr. Roberts,

Those coordinates are almost directly East from the highest peak of Palomino Mountain, but they are on top of Blacktop Mesa.
I had been trying to post some g.e. images on the Tayopa thread, but for some reason they never did load. What I could do is send you a several clear g.e. images from different dates of the East side of Palomino Mountain. If they help, maybe you could load them here?

Homar

That might be worth a try. Im not sure there's anything up there but I remember whoever dug that trench across that fault knew what they were doing and knew a bit about geology.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Good afternoon All: In addition to my last post, The Pierce Mines on the west side of Black Top Mesa and are also in an exact line from the top of Palomino Mountain and the ORO half sun burst marking on the top of Black Top Mesa. The Pierce Mines are a very extensive group of tunnels dug into the west side of Black Top Mesa. They are located about where the talus slop meets the base of the cliffs. Pierce was not the only person to have worked this area. I might add that directly above the north entrance to the tunnels are two twin pinnacles. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

thats most interesting Greg because the trench that was dug runs East and west while all the faulting runs north and south. At one time I believe Black Top Mesa and Palamino were one mountain. (Some 30 million years ago) but volcanic and east Boulder canyon split them.

 

[markmar]

Hi Matthew

Here are two GE images from the location of Kochera mining claims, looking west. The red line shows the true east from the highest point of Palomino Mt.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Hi Matthew

Here are two GE images from the location of Kochera mining claims, looking west. The red line shows the true east from the highest point of Palomino Mt.

View attachment 1919839 View attachment 1919840

markmar,

I think I might see it or at least the area its in to the right of the red line but will have to try and blow the image up and use a magnifier to be certain. Thanks for the effort and photos. It doesn't mean I think something is there, just that a lot of work went on there and Kochera was in the area.

 

[skyhawk1251]

Here are three GE images with your GPS coordinates centered in each. The view is looking directly West toward Palomino Mountain. The last image is the closest I can obtain without going into ground-level view. I see what could be a patch of disturbed ground (light brown color) and an irregular depression to its left. The depression could be a trench, since it looks like it was dug to avoid a large boulder near its right side. The area of interest is inside a red box for each image.

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

This settles it! We need to send an expeditionary force ASAP ! Saddle up !

But seriously Did Mr Kochera find any values in his 3 claims?

 

[Matthew Roberts]

This settles it! We need to send an expeditionary force ASAP ! Saddle up !

But seriously Did Mr Kochera find any values in his 3 claims?

None that I am aware of but that doesn't mean there was nothing, I just don't personally know. The reason I was there was to check out the area because I had received an offer to buy the claims. The area shows some mineral presence but would take some serious work to prove out a claim.

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

None that I am aware of but that doesn't mean there was nothing, I just don't personally know. The reason I was there was to check out the area because I had received an offer to buy the claims. The area shows some mineral presence but would take some serious work to prove out a claim.

Wait now, are the claims not already proven? Or why buy?

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Here are three GE images with your GPS coordinates centered in each. The view is looking directly West toward Palomino Mountain. The last image is the closest I can obtain without going into ground-level view. I see what could be a patch of disturbed ground (light brown color) and an irregular depression to its left. The depression could be a trench, since it looks like it was dug to avoid a large boulder near its right side. The area of interest is inside a red box for each image.

View attachment 1919877

View attachment 1919878

View attachment 1919879

That sure looks like an excavation of some sort Skyhawk. Its a ways east of where I think the trench should be. I dont know how the BLM figured the co-ordinates but they seem to be east of Kocheras actual 3 claims. Satellite images are great but when your on the ground trying to match them to what your standing on it can be a whole different animal. Thanks for the photos, they are helpful.

 

[coazon de oro]

G.E. and GPS coordinates do differ, it's my understanding that most GPS models can be set for WGS84 like G.E.

I didn't want to bother changing my G.E. to show decimal coordinates, so I just converted them to minutes. Maybe my convertion was wrong, at least all others were in the same area. Makes me wonder, if Waltz had given out coordinates to his mine, it would still be lost?

 

[Barber..]

G.E. and GPS coordinates do differ

Yeah, I didn't realize that.. No wonder the images I posted were the wrong area.

 

[markmar]

markmar,

I think I might see it or at least the area its in to the right of the red line but will have to try and blow the image up and use a magnifier to be certain. Thanks for the effort and photos. It doesn't mean I think something is there, just that a lot of work went on there and Kochera was in the area.

Matthew

I believe Kochera and the other guys on the Black Top, were lured there by the Sunburst marker from above the BTM. In reality that marker is for placer gold. The Spaniards/Mexicans always used the word ORO for alluvial/eluvial placer gold on their maps or carved markers in the field. Someone has to look behind that marker/sunburst to see what region shows to the east, because the sun rises from many different locations over the year.
There are two gold mines near BTM and Palomino, but not so close to Kochera claims.

 

[Cubfan64]

Matthew

I believe Kochera and the other guys on the Black Top, were lured there by the Sunburst marker from above the BTM. In reality that marker is for placer gold. The Spaniards/Mexicans always used the word ORO for alluvial/eluvial placer gold on their maps or carved markers in the field. Someone has to look behind that marker/sunburst to see what region shows to the east, because the sun rises from many different locations over the year.
There are two gold mines near BTM and Palomino, but not so close to Kochera claims.

Or it was cut into the stone by Barry Storm and has nothing to do with the Spanish

 

[azdave35]

Or it was cut into the stone by Barry Storm and has nothing to do with the Spanish

i'd have to check but i think hugh d'autramont (sp?) wrote a letter stating that him or one of his pals saw barry on black top carving symbols in stone