Kingdom Of Ais

[Bigcypresshunter]

My avatar shows a deep water "pond" in the middle of a shallow swamp that was dugout by somebody unknown for some reason. I wonder what might be at the bottom of this pit besides 3 large gators that surface for air every 20 minutes or so.

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

Fontaneda's Memoir
By Jerry Wilkinson
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Hernando D'Escalante Fontaneda wrecked on "Florida" at age 13 in 1549/50, lived 17 years with the Calusa Indians, rescued at age 30 (1566) and wrote his memoir in 1575. Exact dates are difficult to establish as Fontaneda does not say anything other than his age and there were a number of shipwrecks where there was one surviving male. Fontaneda did not say where or when he wrecked or who, where or when he was rescued, other than he was 30. Dr. Eugene Lyon found a document in Spain recording Fontaneda as a interpreter in 1566; therefore, he had been rescued bu 1566. Many shipwrecks have been found in the time period that could have been his, but we simply do not know. Regardless, depending on his birthday, the above dates are close enough.
JW
- - - - -
(Translation by Buckingham Smith, 1854)

http://www.keyshistory.org/Fontenada.html

 

[flagold]

Interesting, to be sure, but I have to question the modern maps with fixed boundaries and all that kind of thing. Even amongst the "friendly" Indians, their ways were poorly understood (see letter), much less the borders of races that were extinct. At any rate, good luck with your project!

Text of the letter:

Fort Picolata 2nd July, 1821

My very Dear Friend

I have looked in vain for a long time for a way to send you news of myself and to ask you how you and yours are faring and how your unfortunate affairs are going.

Here I am, camped at [19?] mile from the mouth of the St. Johns with the cursed Negro fever that has broken my arms, legs and head, and it is with shaky hand that I address to you all my sincere wishes for your happiness and that of your respectable family.

I am going to try to gather all my strength to give account of my painful trip to the Minister of War, since you must have the obliging Kindness to speak for me. His excellency will not find it bad that I beg you to hand over my dispatch to him.

I have had the satisfaction to write to you from St. Mary in Georgia as to our perfect friend Mr. Pelters but I have not had that of receiving an answer. I made a trip to St. Augustine, I have sent there many times to get supplies and medicines for my fever that the "quinquina" [quinine] has fortunately weakened. I have sent to ask if there were any packages addressed to me. I have not yet received anything. I have only learned that the Governor General has sent a Colonel to take possession of St. Augustine and that a few minor difficulties were raised, relative to the artillery.

I have written to Governor Jackson before my departure for upper St. Johns (3 May) and I am going to give account of my observations about the country--my letter to the Minister of War will be an extract or copy.

I have suffered much. I have had some silverware stolen,--I have been threatened with a shotgun and I saw the moment when I had to fight in earnest.

The shores of this beautiful bay (for the St. Johns is not a river) are very badly inhabited. Fugitives, deserters, smugglers govern themselves, lazy, vagabonds, that is what makes almost the entire population of both shores. The Indians are less kind, less intelligent and much more beggars than everywhere else. They are in great numbers; the tribes do not live in good harmony among themselves and they do not like the Americans.

I have had a little "loghouse" built to be close to the Indian population; I have spoken so far with only three chiefs. I have sent for the others; I have waited for them and I have been waiting here for more than fifteen days.

I know of no news of Europe anymore. It is said that the Neapolitans have behaved themselves very badly. It seems to me that the newspapers must be very strange, but St. Augustine does not yet have any communication with the rest of the World.

How will I go about receiving my fees? Where and to Whom will I be able to address my accounts,--I am going to find myself at a loss . . . for my trip to the Great lake with three men and a little "sloop" was terribly expensive to me (more than [200?] dollars)--but I have done great service for many tribes of Seminoles who were going to sell their slaves and their "domesticated animals" for nothing or almost nothing . . . Some speculators got the so-called Indians to present a petition to the President of the United States. I do not know the content of that petition, but I know that the one who drafted it did buy 57 Negroes from the Indians and that he knew that I was going to them to say that the American government wanted to treat them with kindness and assure their properties.

The Indians of the "Florides" have some customs quite barbarous, or quite ridiculous,--the history of their morals and practices will be very curious. Of all the interpreters I have been forced to call upon, the best is a Spanish woman who was scalped by the Indians. She has spent a great part of her life among them and has observed as an intelligent woman. I have not yet met a white person who knows how to speak Indian. They are at present doing their purification (our Catholic Easter).

14 July

With remedies I have chased the fever but it has left me in a state of extreme weakness. I drag the pen which weighs as a log,--this keeps me from transcribing the letter and the memo that I was begging you to hand over to the Minister of War. He will forgive the delay, and you will receive my package at the first opportunity. Please be so kind to bring me to the memory of Monsieur the President and to present him my profound respect. I will offer it soon in person to Monsieur the Minister.

Sincere regards to our very good friend Mr. John Pelters, to friend Mitchel and respects to the kind and interesting family of the good guardian angel whom I will love all my life and with all my heart.

J.A. Penières

P.S. My package with another letter will follow closely upon this long scribble.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Interesting, to be sure, but I have to question the modern maps with fixed boundaries and all that kind of thing. Even amongst the "friendly" Indians, their ways were poorly understood (see letter), much less the borders of races that were extinct. At any rate, good luck with your project!

Good point. I will keep that in mind. Ais boundaries dont matter that much to me because I believe all the South Florida tribes were governed under one Calusa chief who resided at Port Charlotte. So naturally treasure was moved from the East coast to the West and much could still be waiting to be discovered inland.

This letter and others that I have read states the poor condition of Seminoles and any remaining Spanish Indians. I believe the surviving Indians knew nothing about any Ais treasure or its whereabouts or they would most likely utilized this resource. In other words, the Seminoles and and remaining Spanish/Calusa/Ais Indians had no treasure when the English/Americans observed them. Its still out there somewhere.

 

[flagold]

In other words, the Seminoles and and remaining Spanish/Calusa/Ais Indians had no treasure when the English observed them. Its still out there somewhere.

Certainly correct, and not conjecture on our parts. If the Spanish had re-recovered their loot, there would be a long list of it cataloged in the archives (they were very meticulous when it came to treasure). Of course, we speak on the forum of "the treasure" when there are likely many locations, as they salvaged for almost 100 years along the coastline and many of the ships they salvaged were loaded. The licensed treasure hunters (archeologists) are looking for it too.

To understand the scope, Marx's first book "Shipwrecks in the Americas" is useful. There is a picture of it to the lower left on the page and Amazon description and ISBN number. You can take that number to the local library and have them order it if they don't have it.

>Shipwrecks In The Americas<

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Much is known about the 1715 fleet and the 1733 disaster, but not much is known about the older wrecks when Spain was in its heyday. Thats because the survivors were slaughtered by the Indians, like you said..

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

http://fcit.usf.edu/FLORIDA/maps/1800b/meye50z.htm

I dont know how to post it but here is an 1850 map of Florida. It shows an old Indian trail (Track of the Indians) from Jupiter Inlet all the way around Macaco or Laco Kee-Cho-Bee (Lake Okeechobee), down past Fisheating Creek to Fort Thompson (maybe near the ancient Indian canals) and eventually on to Port Charlotte.
This Indian trail was probably used by the ancient Indians moving treasure from 16th and 17th century Spanish wrecks in the Jupiter Inlet (Seahunter's wreck) area on to Chief Carlos in Port Charlotte. Some could certainly be buried around the Big Lake. I thought I would share this.


Zoom in to the Big Lake.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

OK. I have new computer. Windows XP. I am still learning the basics.
I dont mean to sound stupid, but I guess I am. How do I play this video? I click on the triangle and it says Loading... What do I do next to play this thing? Anybody help.

 

[mad4wrecks]

Dont click the arrow in the middle of the picture. click the little arrow down (play button) in the bottom left hand corner. The screen should say "loading" and then the video should start playing almost immediately

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Dont click the arrow in the middle of the picture. click the little arrow down (play button) in the bottom left hand corner. The screen should say "loading" and then the video should start playing almost immediately

My screen shows no little arrow or play button in the left hand corner. I wonder why? Maybe I need to instal a program.

Any computer experts? Help needed. I have Windows XP.

 

[Jeffro]

Dale, just click in the center twice- once to load and once to play. If its slow loading, you may need to dump your cookies. Are you on a dial up or cable connection? If you're on dial up, it may take a minute or two.

Hey Matt-

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Ok, it works now. A program must have been missing in my computer.

I finally got to watch and hear your video. Enjoyed the ride, Matt. You get right down between the trees. Speaking of trees, I noticed the green pines and the brown cypress trees. Must have been winter.

I look for oaks also, but for a different reason. I like to hunt deer and hogs if the acorns are dropping.The Florida oak trees will have a distinct different color green than the pineheads or the "green heads." (cabbage palm, myrtle, etc.) Once you see the difference it is not hard to notice.
Oak hammocks are usually, but not always, surrounded by water. They will die in a fire. They will grow large only if fire cannot reach them.

I remember seeing a perfectly round high and dry "island" about twice the size of my bedroom, in a bald cypress slough, with one large oak tree in the center and one large old dead tree stump next to it. I wonder if this could be an Indian mound or midden that you speak of? It caught my attention because it was very uniform in shape and surrounded by rather deep water. (knee to waist deep)

 

[flagold]

That's the situation we look for. In all likelihood, it's a mound.

Howdy Jeffro, hope everything is going good for you.

 

[Jeffro]

Much better now Matt, How you been?

 

[flagold]

Hanging in as best I can. Good luck with your hunting out there.