kirk snapped base discussions

[dognose]

I found this point a few years back.


Categorically it would be classified as a kirk snapped base.


Over the last many years, I have found 3 Decatur points and many which would classified as kirk snapped base.


I have always had a nagging theory that they are NOT intentionally snapped.


overstreet states for the description of the kirk snapped base as:
A medium to large size, usually serrated, blade with long tangs and a base that has been snapped or fractured off. The shoulders are also fractured on some examples. This proves that the fracturing was intentional as in Decatur and other types.

To me that does not 'prove' anything.
I am not sure what other types than a Decatur they refer too. That is too subjective for me.


I have found a number of lost lakes over the years. One in particular could be considered a first stage - without any re-sharpenings. But on this point the bards ARE fractured off.


I would like to open the floor to discussions on the kirk snapped base theories.

 

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[arrow86]

Iv always had a hard time with “intentionally “ snapped off doesn’t make sense to me seems more likely a large blade that broke at the base while using

 

[MAMucker]

I struggle to understand how that designation came to be accepted. I have found points of other types that all have similar breaks, but that doesn’t make the break intentional or a variant.
I’ll be following this post for sure.

 

[joshuaream]

There are some Kirk and related points (Decatur, and another one I am drawing a blank on...) that have burinated bases. Two flakes were taken off the sides of the base, seemingly intentionally given some of the prep work and consistency across thousands of points, creating a flattened hafting area. Perhaps it helped keep the points "seated" in the haft? One person said it creates two uniquely durable burin flakes that are great for scoring and cutting bone/antler.

Here is one of mine. Not the greatest point, but it's a decent example of the burinated base. There is a little "wrinkle" in the middle of the base where two burinated flakes meet.







The examples where the entire base is removed? I'm not sure. I don't think they chucked them if the edge was usable, but I don't think they snapped them completely off like that. Seems like something a dealer created to sell broken points for more money.

 

[ToddsPoint]

Just another broken point. The material looks interesting. With the yellow stripes it looks sort of like Utica banded flint from IL. Not that far from Cent. IN really. Gary

 

[tnmudman]

One reason some may think points like the one in the first pic are made that way is thst there is no apparent damage anywhere else on the point. The base is the thickest part of it also, so you would think the amount of force it would take to brake it there during use would result in more damage to the blade.

 

[joshuaream]

One reason some may think points like the one in the first pic are made that way is thst there is no apparent damage anywhere else on the point. The base is the thickest part of it also, so you would think the amount of force it would take to brake it there during use would result in more damage to the blade.

The magic of torque, like prying or twisting, and a flint/chert tool will often snap at the narrowest spot.

 

[MAMucker]

So it would not break at the binding? Sorry, I have a variety of types in my heartbreak box without their bases. Question: if the base is intentionally snapped off, it stands to reason that the halfting area gets shifted further into the blade? The equivalent of basal grinding would be adjusted to the blade edges. Even some notching would be logical. Lashing had to be bound somewhere. The snapped base varieties are not arrow points, but rather, older spear (atlatl) points?

 

[MAMucker]

I have a feeling that if we come to some agreement on this, many G-10 frames will be de-populated. And those who sell (authentic) pristine artifacts will have to take a major inventory hit.

 

[theviking]

Not all publications consider this a valid type. Projectiles.net calls it a collectors type and makes note of it possibly being a made up type for collectors to sell more points. Although it sounds crazy to intentionally snap the base off of a large knife apparently this is a known process in manufacturing certain types. I still believe they are broken points reworked for further use, just a little shorter.. Although I have found a few Kirk's in the past few years with odd bases that have made me wonder about my opinion. Did you know there's also a Adena snapped base? I'm surprised there's not a snapped base Savannah River with all the broken examples I've found..

 

[dognose]

here is a lost lake I found a few years back, I was referring to.


It made of harrison county flint, with a nice chocolate brown patina. The clipped wing are are also patina'ed brown. Its not broke, but I have had a few knuckleheads tell me it is when they have only viewed the photo not the relic in person, so their judgment is not based on complete information.

I have seen other relics noted as 'clipped wing' and can accept that as intentional, but snapping a base off intentional does not make logical sense to me. On a Decatur there is often more of a base than on the kirk in my original post. I just dont get how they could be wrapped sturdy enough to be useful.

 

[MosesOfTheSouth]

interesting topic. these two are very similar in make/shape/ possible break. if they were breaks, they happened around the time of manufacture because there is no difference in patina. could be a weakness in design idk . the larger of the two has very smooth edges on the base compared to the working edges.