Know your second amendment rights

[0121stockpicker]

picker, I don't require education on the second. I also do not need someone else's opinion on what they THINK it means. I also know how the constitution can be changed. I'm stating that, if the 2nd is changed to remove my right to bear arms as "I" see it, the change is a travesty, plain and simple. We consider ourselves the country with the most freedoms but, if we start giving them up we might as well burn our constitution. It is a worthless piece of paper once rights start getting restricted. Once we have rights equal to England's subjects we will have had a revolution for nothing. Then where will it stop? When we have LESS rights than the Brits we should all move back to England. Yeah, yeah, yeah.....you can't holler "Fire" in the theater but, as I've said before, they don't gag me when I enter the theater. If more rights are granted by an amendment, all the better, but when you start reducing those rights, that's tyranny.

And that's a great opinion / belief to have. And being in America you are entitled to your opinion / belief. No one trying to change your opinion or even discuss opinions. Point of the thread is to have a factual discussion on the working of the seconds, etc. people of any belief/opinion are totally welcome. you have stated you already know what there is to be known of the second and con law - that's fantastic as not many people do. The thread will be of very little value to you then. But certainly you are encouraged to share any factual information you may have. Best.

 

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[0121stockpicker]

We do not need more restriction, more legislation. Anyone that thinks we do needs to reevaluate what they think America is about. I am a huge history fan, and one of my favorite Fathers is Thomas Jefferson. He was wise beyond his years. He once said that we should create only laws that increase liberty and bolster individual social responsibility.
So in this situation what do we need?
Education. National firearms education whether you own a gun or not. Upon successful completion of say a 40 hour course dealing with the laws, and the handling of firearms. At 18 you get your open carry permit. And every five years you take a proficiency exam. This puts the responsibility on the individual while at the same time increasing liberty. It also give a professional or two 40 hours to rack your slide and see what's down your barrel.
It's the same as a drivers license. I want some assurances that someone has checked out the nuts on the road with me and has checked to make sure they have the basic knowledge and skills to negate the roadways without killing me or my family. It doesn't stop unlicensed drivers from getting behind the wheel, or keep drunks off the road. Because you can't force someone to be responsible.
So why not institute an educational program? No need to register our firearms unless we want to insure them. We have drivers education, sex education, drug education... we still have underage pregnancy, teenage drug abusers, and teenagers dying on the roadways. We don't outlaw rubbers, cars and.. oh wait...DRUGS are illegal. But the numbers decrease. Look how many kids stay away from cigarettes, look how many adults have quit. You want sensible legislation that is in keeping with our Constitutional rights, there it is.

These are great opinions/beliefs 302. And luckily being american we are all entitled to have our own. But opinion / beliefs and disagreements with how the system works won't change or stop the system from working. I dislike the extra point in football, but it ain't gonna stop until the rule is changed. Best.

 

[russdaddy]

The 2nd ammen. was created for just the situation our country is in now....to arm citizens sufficiently to overthrow a tyranical gov't. They are treading dangerously close to crossing this line.

 

[0121stockpicker]

The 2nd ammen. was created for just the situation our country is in now....to arm citizens sufficiently to overthrow a tyranical gov't. They are treading dangerously close to crossing this line.

And that's an interesting interpretation that you have. We would all love to see any constitutional laws or ruling to back up your interpretation. Thanks in advance. This is the type of information we are looking for to convert opinion/belief into fact. And be armed with the proper facts for all to see.

 

[releventchair]

Stock picker,how do you see federal vs state law(s) affecting the 2nd. Federal should trump state but does not seem to in examples of Washington d.c.,Illinois,California, new York.

 

[worldtalker]

The FACT is,I believe there are enough Real Americans that would stand their ground,PERIOD! GodBless Chris

 

[dejapooh]

Boy... The weirdo's really are out in force when you start to look up what the American Law is on Martial Law. It seems that it either has been declared in secret months ago, or it is about to be declared. Either way, Martial law is available to the President under executive order, but any long standing persisting emergency that would interfere with the right of Habius Corpus would be reviewed by the supreme court. Congress would also get in on the act, and such a declaration for political gain would likely result in Impeachment.

If I'm wrong correct me,but,if Martial Law is instituted,'through executive order'the Constitution becomes Null and Void. GodBless Chris

 

[Chadeaux]

If only it was so simple.

It is. Read it as written without the attitude of a lawyer looking for a loophole and you will see how simple it is.

Yes, the constitution can be amended. I don't think that this is going to happen to the Second Amendment without a huge false flag operation.

Unfortunately, I have heard speculation of events which might bring that about. Lived through one of those false flags before, don't want to see it happen again. The really odd thing is the proponents were anti-gun.

 

[0121stockpicker]

The FACT is,I believe there are enough Real Americans that would stand their ground,PERIOD! GodBless Chris

I certainly believe that it is a fact that you believe that. No one is questioning what you believe and questioning that you do not know what you believe. And being an American you can believe whatever you want. That's great. Plenty of great threads to discuss ones second amendment beliefs and opinions. Best.

 

[dejapooh]

I was going to give a snarky comment, but I will save it. Tyranny is any government you do not agree with.

The 2nd ammen. was created for just the situation our country is in now....to arm citizens sufficiently to overthrow a tyranical gov't. They are treading dangerously close to crossing this line.

 

[worldtalker]

I certainly believe that it is a fact that you believe that. No one is questioning what you believe and questioning that you do not know what you believe. And being an American you can believe whatever you want. That's great. Plenty of great threads to discuss ones second amendment beliefs and opinions. Best.

When it comes down to it,tried to warn you.That's OK,I will still defend you against Tyranny.

 

[dejapooh]

Personally, when we talk about gun control we are not only locking the barn door after the horse has run away, we are buying a new saddle and bridle, stocking up on hay and building a new barn for the horse that has run away. With something like 300,000,000 weapons out there somewhere, any effective arms control is FAR FAR too late to do any good. So, while I supported Arms Control in theory, the fact of it is that even the strictest arms control would do nothing about the real problem. The secondary problem is one of logic and the ability to look beyond crank conspiracy theories and at reality. No one has proposed the government coming and taking any weapons from anyone who obtained them legally. NO ONE. They are not going to pry them from your cold dead hand. There is no proposal on the table that would do anything of the sort, so those who are getting all revolutionary on us, calm down. The most extreme laws proposed would make it more difficult to get the worst of the worst types of weapons (and considering that there are already tens of millions of assault weapons legally sold, there is no shortage except in those tiny minds who think Obama is going to sneak into his house and nick his weapons (Ted Negent).
Here is the problem I have with the Gun Lobby. They keep saying we need to enforce the laws we have on the books, then they lobby congress to pass rule and funding that make it impossible for the ATF to actually do that.

Please don't tell me you want to enforce the laws we have on the books now and then make it impossible to do so. If you do that, I will call you what you are, a pack of lying hypocrites.

 

[0121stockpicker]

It is. Read it as written without the attitude of a lawyer looking for a loophole and you will see how simple it is.

Yes, the constitution can be amended. I don't think that this is going to happen to the Second Amendment without a huge false flag operation.

Unfortunately, I have heard speculation of events which might bring that about. Lived through one of those false flags before, don't want to see it happen again. The really odd thing is the proponents were anti-gun.

Again, you are getting caught up in the amendment thing. As has been posted the likely course of action IS NOT going to be an amendment. You realize there are millions of "laws" in this country, right. How do you think a law is created? One does not need a constitutional amendment.

For the sake of all of us fortunately it is not as simple as just reading it. I'm not a lawyer so I'm reading it through my own eyes but I also know (hopefully everyone knows) that the constitution is basically a table of contents. Each one or two paragraph amendment is backed by over 200 years of constitutional law with libraries of information. You understand that, right? If we just looked at the constitution and then stopped would anyone except white landowners males be able to vote? What would be the laws be concerning cell phones, computers etc.

If you do a little reading of constitutional law you will quickly learn the rich history involved and how it is anything but simple.

Listen we all get old and afraid of change. Your not alone. You think I know what all the buttons on my cell phone do. Everyone gets to a certain age and wants all change to stop and harken back to the "good old days". Thank goodness we have the young to keep things moving forward. Or we could all just join the Amish. Best.

 

[0121stockpicker]

Boy... The weirdo's really are out in force when you start to look up what the American Law is on Martial Law. It seems that it either has been declared in secret months ago, or it is about to be declared. Either way, Martial law is available to the President under executive order, but any long standing persisting emergency that would interfere with the right of Habius Corpus would be reviewed by the supreme court. Congress would also get in on the act, and such a declaration for political gain would likely result in Impeachment.

Yup reminds me of the car insurance commercial when the guy says "where did you here that" and the woman says " the Internet, and you know anything on the Internet is correct". And then the guys says "and where that " and she says " the Internet". Or something like that.

That's why I get so concerned about all the whacky info going around out there.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

The FACT is,I believe there are enough Real Americans that would stand their ground,PERIOD! GodBless Chris

REAL Americans...? How do YOU define a "REAL American"...? THANKS in advance.

 

[Dave44]

I have been away awhile but I started perusing some of these posts yesterday and have found some very interesting leanings of some members.

Hence the question, what is the definition of "We The People" Picker? I saw a post that you answered incorrectly earlier.

Regards,
Dave

 

[worldtalker]

Again, you are getting caught up in the amendment thing. As has been posted the likely course of action IS NOT going to be an amendment. You realize there are millions of "laws" in this country, right. How do you think a law is created? One does not need a constitutional amendment.

For the sake of all of us fortunately it is not as simple as just reading it. I'm not a lawyer so I'm reading it through my own eyes but I also know (hopefully everyone knows) that the constitution is basically a table of contents. Each one or two paragraph amendment is backed by over 200 years of constitutional law with libraries of information. You understand that, right? If we just looked at the constitution and then stopped would anyone except white landowners males be able to vote? What would be the laws be concerning cell phones, computers etc.

If you do a little reading of constitutional law you will quickly learn the rich history involved and how it is anything but simple.

Listen we all get old and afraid of change. Your not alone. You think I know what all the buttons on my cell phone do. Everyone gets to a certain age and wants all change to stop and harken back to the "good old days". Thank goodness we have the young to keep things moving forward. Or we could all just join the Amish. Best.

There were over 33,000,000 laws last I looked,it could conceivably come to a point you're riding on a bus one day and break a law without knowing it and end up in prison. Ignorance of the law is NO excuse,how in hell is one to remember 33,000,000 laws.

As far as computers,I was hoping Y2K WOULD happen,back to the horse and buggy days,harder,but,simpler.

I'm older and am NOT AFRAID of anything,as far as the young,I don't hold out much hope if they haven't been home schooled.

 

[0121stockpicker]

I have been away awhile but I started perusing some of these posts yesterday and have found some very interesting leanings of some members.

Hence the question, what is the definition of "We The People" Picker? I saw a post that you answered incorrectly earlier.

Regards,
Dave

I think the question was just people, not we the people. From the standpoint of the original constitution "we the people" as all constitution rights referred to Caucasian landowning males. Thank goodness that has been "amended" over the years. But it's still debated today, right. Look at the debate about illegal aliens and wether they deserve rights or not. So one can not even say "citizens of the United States". But this is completely open forum so would love to see what constitutional laws you have dug up on the topic. This is free exchange of facts. Best.

 

[jerseyben]

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[0121stockpicker]

There were over 33,000,000 laws last I looked,it could conceivably come to a point you're riding on a bus one day and break a law without knowing it and end up in prison. Ignorance of the law is NO excuse,how in hell is one to remember 33,000,000 laws.

As far as computers,I was hoping Y2K WOULD happen,back to the horse and buggy days,harder,but,simpler.

I'm older and am NOT AFRAID of anything,as far as the young,I don't hold out much hope if they haven't been home schooled.

I'm hearing you man. But lets face it there are a hell of a lot worse countries to be in - North Korea, china, etc. where we would not be having this discussion.

I think the best that we can do is have as much knowledge of the process as possible and be as active as possible in the process.