Lassetters Lost Gold Reef

Lucky Eddie

Sr. Member
Feb 9, 2010
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It amazed me that a search of this site found no mention of Australia's biggest "lost gold reef" legend of that of Lassetter!

Source:- http://www.gold-net.com.au/lasseter1.html

Perhaps the greatest mystery in the charismatic saga of the Australian Gold fields, is the Legend of Lasseter's Reef.

Harold Lasseter was a man whose history and antecedents are shrouded in mystery. Even today debate rages as to the authenticity of his claim that he had found a fabulously rich gold reef, west of Alice Springs, Central Australia, somewhere near the Western Australian border.

To detail the whole saga in this brief resume is beyond the bounds of linguistic licence, however with further editions of Gold Net Australia Online specifics relating to this fabulous tale will be examined and commented on, in serialized form.

As you will read in further issues, the whole incredible saga raises more questions than it provides answers. Even today, the location of this fabulous wealth has not been found, and debate rages as to the validity or otherwise of this saga.

Lasseter was a prospector and miner who had both prospected and mined for gold and other treasure in Western Australia when gold was the backbone of the economies of this emerging nation.

He had been prospecting for rubies in the MacDonnell Ranges, west of Alice Springs, had become lost and had stumbled across a gold reef. He collected a bag of specimen gold and while trying to return to civilization became hopelessly lost. He was found by an Afghan camel driver, half starved, raving through thirst and delirious.

He was taken to a nearby surveyors camp, where he was nursed back to health. Some three years passed before Lasseter in company with a surveyor named Harding, who had been at the surveyor's camp at the time of his rescue, returned in search of the reef. As the story goes, they located the reef, took bearings and returned to civilisation at Carnavon on the north west coast of Western Australia.

Bearings had been taken using their watches, and they were dismayed to find that both their watches were substantially incorrect when they arrived at Carnavon. This of course meant that the bearings given would be incorrect and could be inaccurate by quite large distances.

Time passed. Lasseter was swept up in the rushes that were occurring all over Western Australia, and he worked both as a miner and a prospector throughout this time of plenty. Gold was literally oozing from the ground in almost inexhaustible quantities. Wealth was everywhere, and fortunes were being made.

The two men left at Ilbilba were quietly making their acquaintances with the local natives, many of whom had not seen a white man before. Caution was imperative, as spearing of white settlers was still a distinct possibility in this forbidding country. It was soon learnt that the native tribes of the area, were not only cautious of white men but also of other tribes, and stealing of lubra's (women) was common place, as were skirmishes between tribes for a variety of unrelated matters. Totally naked, well armed with spears, nulla-nulla's (clubbing sticks) and boomerangs, they were well equipped to both defend and attack as the situation arose. In general the tribes had a hierarchy, and well-regulated discipline. Each tribe with their own language, often unable to communicate with their 'next door neighbors'.

It was not unknown for native tribes to live in this manner in Australia right up to the 1960's.
With the arrival of the large truck back at Ilbilba, the expedition leaders re-assessed their position.

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** This is Ilbilla/Illbilba soak today (Its an Aboriginal name there is no strictly correct spelling of it) viewed from google earth.**

The news was good, at last. The directors had supplied another aircraft, that was due to arrive at Ilbilba within days. The smaller truck returned to Alice Springs for more supplies while the larger returned to Ilbilba. After an agonizing wait the second truck arrived from Alice Springs with news that the aircraft was due to arrive the next day. The local inhabitants for many miles around were camped nearby enjoying the novelty of the white men in there midst. An air of tranquility existed, until the aircraft arrived. A 'bird' of this nature had never been seen before by the indigenous blacks, who promptly bolted in all directions, eventually crawling back to a safe distance where this huge 'creature' could be viewed with caution.

For over 20 years gold poured from the ground, but eventually, the bonanza slowed and the Western Australian government re-assessed the mineral resources of the State. In 1916 the Western Australian Government sent expeditions into the desert in an effort to find this lost treasure. They suffered attacks from the indigenous aborigines, and as casualties resulted, expeditions were abandoned.

Lasseter continued to seek support for a well-provisioned and equipped expedition into the desert to find his 'Eldorado', without success. Eventually Harold Lasseter convinced John Bailey, the influential President of the Australian Workers Union of the authenticity of his claim. Bailey investigated the claim and found records and other government data that substantially supported Lasseter's claim.

Through his influence, a company was formed and 5,000 pounds raised to finance and equip an expedition into the desert to re-locate the reef. Lasseter was overjoyed at his good luck. His time had come, after almost 30 years.

The expedition group consisted of two trucks and with the support of an aircraft that could provide a wider view of the vast territory to be covered. With great expectations the expedition set off into the desert on 21 July 1930. The intention was for the entire party, including the pilot to travel together, reach a suitable staging area where alanding strip would be made for the aircraft.

The pilot would then return to Alice Springs, collect the aircraft and fly to this location. After 9 days of relative easy going, they reached Taylor's Creek, some 240 miles west of Alice Springs. This area proved suitable for their purposes, and an air strip was constructed. The pilot in the smaller truck returned to Alice Springs in company with one other, who was to replenish the expedition with stores. The pilot flying on to Taylor's Creek where the aircraft would be secured, until a further landing site was found further west.

A few days later the aircraft aptly named the 'Golden Quest', arrived at the rough strip, along with the smaller truck with more supplies. All was going according to plan.

The re-grouped party secured the aircraft, and move on to the west towards Ilbilba. The country was forbidding and becoming more difficult to traverse daily. Progress was incredibly slow. Two miles an hour being the accepted rate. Ilbilba was reached.

A previous expedition had cleared a large staging area, quite suitable for use as a landing strip. The pilot and the second truck, set off back to Taylor's Creek to bring the aircraft forward, while the truck would return to Alice Springs and bring supplies forward. All went well until the aircraft lifted into the air. The motor stalled and the "Golden Quest", fell from the sky unceremoniously overturning on impact injuring the pilot. He was conveyed to Alice Springs in the truck in great pain. The party at Ilbilba waited expectantly for the aircraft. Realization that something was amiss was all too evident. Leaving two men at the camp to secure the stores the large truck headed back towards Taylor's Creek.

After 5 grueling days they arrived and located the damaged aircraft. Fortunately a note had been left, advising of the accident, and the necessity to convey the pilot, to Alice Springs for medical attention. A few days later, the party at Taylor's Creek was joined by the smaller truck en route to Ilbilba. The aircraft was dismantled, placed on this vehicle and returned to Alice Springs for transport to Adelaide for repairs.

It was decided to continue west, towards the area where hopefully Lasseter would recognize land marks and guide the party to the lost reef. The country was incredibly hard. Sand dunes blocked the way and the truck became bogged numerous times. On each occasion it had to be dug out by hand, move a few more yards, and had to be dug out again. The countries forbidding nature was taking it's toll, denying progress. After 10 days they had traveled a mere 100 miles, and they were now confronted by sand dunes that were clearly impassable. They had no alternative but to return to Ilbilba. Once there they were surprised to find that the second truck had not arrived back from Alice Springs as expected, and a decision was made for the large truck to return to Taylor's Creek to search for them. They continued past Taylor's Creek, and eventually located the second truck many miles further east.

The next day with Lasseter on board, the aircraft headed west, seeking recognizable landmarks. They were found, but the limited range of the flying observation platform was considered a huge draw back, so it was decided to fly the aircraft to Adelaide via Alice Springs for a new engine and larger fuel tanks to be fitted. The ground party headed southwest towards the country Lasseter had recognized. The going became increasingly difficult and eventually became impassable to the vehicles. There was no alternative but to return to Ilbilba, and seek instructions from the directors. Lasseter was hell bent on continuing at all costs, and when they arrived back at the staging camp, they were surprised to find a man called Johns was there with 5 camels. After some negotiating, Johns was engaged and with Lasseter they headed back into the desert.

Upon hearing the news the directors decided to provide what support they could. A ground party was despatched, which consisted of camels, and a plane was organized for aerial support. Before the aircraft could be utilized it was damaged on the ground at Alice Springs, and repairs had to be undertaken. The ground party was to go to Ayers Rock to pr However, when the aircraft arrived no ground party could be seen. It had struck trouble with the camels that had bolted one night into the desert, and the 'rescue' party had returned to Alice Springs.

As the aircraft landed, a slither of wood from the propeller flew off, narrowly missing the pilot's head. The prop was too badly damaged for the craft to take to the air. By this time Lasseter and Johns were in familiar territory. The country was difficult but with camels negotiable. They were close to their goal. About 20 miles from the reef, Lasseter left Johns with the camels and went on alone. He could not contain his elation, when he set eyes on his dream again. He stood silently, drinking in the golden hue before him.

He rejoined Johns, confirming what he had found. Johns became suspicious and after some tense days a fight broke out where a pistol was used with near disastrous consequences. A shaky truce existed as they returned to Ilbilba to bring the news to the world. Lasseter was delighted.

At Ilbilba, Johns was dispatched back to Alice Springs, with the news. Lasseter, replenished his supplies and with two camels headed back to the site. His intention was to peg the claim, take bearings and recover samples. A lone white man in this forbidding country would be easy prey, should an unfriendly tribe be encountered. Plumes of smoke occasionally appeared indicating his progress was being watched. At times black figures appeared, brandishing spears, indicating his presence was unwelcome. On other occasions, the blacks displayed a friendly pose and communications were pleasant. The camels were becoming increasingly difficult to control. He pegged the claim and started back towards Ilbilba.

Tragedy struck late in the afternoon, when both camels bolted, leaving him alone in the desert without water and with little food. He recognized the fragility of his position, and knew he would have to seek assistance from the indigenous inhabitants if he was to survive.

At Ayers rock, the pilot had been stranded for almost a week without water or food. Thirst was draining his common sense and reason. Fortunately the party sent to establish a base camp at the rock eventually arrived, rescued the pilot, repaired the propeller and the aircraft returned to Alice Springs for expert repairs. When the repairs were complete the aircraft lifted into the air again, with a pilot and co-pilot heading for Ilbilba. On this occasion with neither man familiar with the country and with inaccurate charts, they became hopelessly lost, eventually landing in formidable country. Only one thing to do with little food and no water. Walk back to Alice Springs. They began in great heart, but eventually were driven to remain near a drying water hole for the little sustenance it provided.

Search parties were organized. One left Hereinafter Mission, and another left Alice Springs, while the RAAF (Royal Australian Air Force) were asked to assist. A number of aircraft arrived at Alice Springs and a systematic air search commenced. At times the two starving men could see aircraft in the distance, and knew that help was near. They had been stranded for almost three weeks, when they heard the drone of the engine approaching overhead. They jumped for joy when the aircraft slowly circled and dropped food and water. Later that day a ground party arrived and rescued them from their torment. They were taken to Tempe Downs Station. Lasseter was still in the desert. By this time he had joined up with a tribe of indigenous natives. Knowing that rescue parties would be heading for him, he promised great quantities of food.

The tribal chief, Watta Mitta Mitta, was skeptical, and had encouraged his young warriors to kill him, then and there. Lasseter was a cunning man and made friends with the older lubra's (women), and an old man he called Old Warts, as he had an over abundance of them on his back. Old Warts protected Lasseter on many occasions during the harrowing weeks he was to endure, with little food or water, for both himself and his reluctant hosts. The desert was unrelenting, and unforgiving, and after many weeks of enduring unspeakable hardship, Lasseter s strength was waning. He was desperate.

At Tempe Downs Station the company commissioned the owner Bob Buck to find Lasseter. Buck was a fine bushman, with extensive experience. In one of the great feats of endurance Buck traversed the country for 11 weeks seeking tracks that would lead to Lasseter.

At last he found signs, and following them relentlessly, eventually came across a large gathering of blacks. At first they denied any knowledge of Lasseter, but eventually he was taken to the place where Lasseter had breathed his last breath.

The aborigines had not killed him, but their lack of support indeed aided his eventual demise. Buck buried him where he lay, and searched for notes and other messages. The actual location of the reef, although recorded by Lasseter, was lost, as were the samples he had buried.

To this day, the location of this fabulous wealth remains lost in the forbidding desert of Central Australia. There are those who dismiss this whole saga, as being one of the great confidence tricks of this century. Others prefer to believe the truth of the legend. In recent years, several expeditions have been mounted to this vast area without success. Innumerable questions remain unanswered. Perhaps in time, the secret of Lasseter's Reef will be discovered. In the meantime, the Legend of Lasseter continues.

To this day many have searched and non have yet found Lasseters lost reef of gold.

Cheers
 

Oroblanco

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Tag post, please ignore - but thank you for posting this, most famous lost mine legend of the land down under! :thumbsup:
 

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Lucky Eddie

Sr. Member
Feb 9, 2010
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You are more than welcome.

One wonders today, with the availability of 4wd trucks, 4wd sedans, 4wd quad bikes, helicopters etc - whether a properly financed expedition based out of the soak where they all camped closest to his find, the muther load couldn't actually be found.

IF Lasster only traveled 2 days outside of that camp site, by camel - to re find his "el dorado" that It can't be much more than what 50 or so miles in a westerly direction from the camp?

I think it possible a large mobile dune system, periodically covers and uncovers his low lying reef - depending on the wind strength and direction.

The areas still very remote by world standards, but these days we do have the requisite technology to be able to explore that area - very closely while sitting in an air conditioned helicopter - the ability to hover - land get out and physically take samples and be back at night at the soak camp for a decent meal shower and sleep.

I'm surprised that more effort hasn't been made ot re discover his find.

Its not THAT far North and West to one of Australians now 3 largest open cut gold mines at Telfer in West Australia!

Obviously there's a reef running north south somewhere in that vicinity and I reckon Lasster just happened to stumble across another place where it breaches the earths crust - west of the encampement at Ilbilly soak by some 50 or more miles maybe.

That sort of distances a good 4wd and 4wd quad etc would cover easily!

Cheers
 

Oroblanco

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Your logic is impeccable; I agree fully with your conclusions. I do not know the land ownership or any restrictions on the area, which could be a potential stumbling block. Have you looked into this angle of the problem? I would love to hear (read) more, and wish you the best of luck - I hope you find Lassiter's Reef, if only to rub the noses of the skeptics in it! :thumbsup:

I know some have dismissed the whole story, but Lassiter showed gold to several people, so that gold had to come from -somewhere- . I do not know how far a man can ride (comfortably) on a camel, I know they have longer legs and cover more ground than a horse in the same time.

I look forward to reading more, wish I had some useful info or suggestions but at this point, just a fascinated reader. :icon_thumright:
Oroblanco
 

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Lucky Eddie

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Feb 9, 2010
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Like most things, I have the interest - but not the fiscal backing - to do the search myself.

I do for example have equipment, local knowledge and expertise that I'd make available:-
a 2004 F 250 4x4, 7.3 liter intercooled T diesel,
as well as a 1992 Toyota Landcruiser 4x4 4.2 liter Tdiesel,
and a new 250 cc quad bike &
GPS
& Trailer etc
a couple 12 V portable fridge freezers.

What I don't have is:-

the $ for fuel there and back and to search
Any Minelab metal detector
Any capital for helicopter hire (that can be as high as 600 - 1000/hr).

Really speaking it would take a consortium of people willing to back the project, and be involved in the project, as shareholders.

We'd need a couple hire 4x4 tray back trucks, with say 8 x 1000 liter cubes of water & fuel each, for the helicopter, the 4x4's and quad bikes, etc.

Land tenure is govt crown land - so legal to prospect.

The area covers the border area between West Australia, Northern Territory and South Australia - so depending where the reef is found assuming it ever is - would depend on which state or territory mines department you'd have to peg a lease with.

All 3 are pretty easy to peg and register a lease.

As you correctly point out - on two occasions Lassetter brought back samples from his reef - it HAS to be there somewhere.

Cheers
 

Peerless67

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G'day Eddie, It could pay to research the claims on this wiki page to decide if a search was worth while.


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Lewis Hubert Lasseter, or Lewis Harold Bell Lasseter as he later referred to himself, was born on 27 September 1880 at Bamganie, Victoria, Australia. Though self-educated, he was literate and well-spoken, but commonly described as eccentric and opinionated. He traveled in both Australia and the United States and worked at a variety of occupations. He married twice and had five children. Lasseter was made famous by his sensational claim, first made in 1929, that as a young man he had discovered a fabulously rich gold reef, a proposition now known as “Lasseter's Reef”, in central Australia. Lasseter perished in the desert near the Western Australia – Northern Territory border in early 1931 after he separated himself from an expedition that was mounted to rediscover the supposed reef. His body was found and buried in March 1931 by Bob Buck, a central Australian bushman and pastoralist sent to search for Lasseter, and was later re-interred in the Alice Springs cemetery.

However, the book Lasseter Did Not Lie by A. Stapleton (Adel, 1981) suggests that Lasseter was no more than a con-man, having ripped off his investors in a clever scheme to convince them that such a gold reef existed, only to take their money with him to San Francisco where he later died in the late 1950s.

Some of the facts pointing in that direction:

* Lasseter had said that when he was in Alice Springs the first time, around the time of discovering the gold, he had posted a letter at the post office in the middle of the town. However, at the time, the post office was not in the town, which was actually called Stuart back then, but located on the other side of the ranges some 6 kilometres away at a water hole which was called Alice Springs.
* At the time when Lasseter claimed he was first in Alice Springs, he would have been in the town when its population was only a few hundred, and visitors came many weeks apart. Claiming he arrived with his horses and camels in tow, with only one place where he could have bought such provisions and nobody remembered him.
* Gold specimens found in pockets of body alleged to have been Lasseter were chemically analyzed and determined to have originated near Kalgoorlie, thousands of kilometres away.
* Jimmy Nosepeg, aboriginal tracker who assisted Bob Buck find the body said the body was so decomposed, "could have been a black fellow (aboriginal)".
* Bob Buck, a poor labourer, died with large cash reserves.
* There were three separate investment companies in his gold exploration, but none of those companies knew of the existence of the other two.
* Modern technology with magnetometers, geological mapping, satellite imagery, seismic testing and remote sensing show that it is geologically impossible for gold to have ever formed in the areas where Lasseter claimed it was.


:coffee2:

Gary
 

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Lucky Eddie

Sr. Member
Feb 9, 2010
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187
There are a LOT of stories about Lasseters reef - both for and against.

Wiki isn't one of my favorite references, however it is all legitimate research material.

Gold is where you find it, I'm afraid - and claims that geologists say there is no formation capable of producing gold within the areas Lasster claimed, are rather "broadly" made (and possibly made to deceive).

There's been a LOT of searching thru the Peterman ranges, with only one small reef protrusion found that I know of - a mere trace......BUT proof positive that gold CAN be found in the vicinity.

I do think it likely that the reef is from time to time covered and uncovered by a mobile dune system.

There's some surface freshwater in the Petermann ranges - it WOULD make a good base camp site.

Cheers
 

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HI: fascinating. If'n I were only 30 years younger and the Tayopa was finished, I would gather Oro, peerless, djuicy, ole hound, and a few others --- off we would go, sigh.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. sounds like an excellent place to get rid of Djuicy's growing pot from the easy life.
 

Peerless67

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Eddie "Wiki isn't one of my favorite references, however it is all legitimate research material."

I do agree, but that gives you a starting point for some research. Example where is the California death record ?

:coffee2:
Gary
 

Peerless67

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Real de Tayopa said:
HI: fascinating. If'n I were only 30 years younger and the Tayopa was finished, I would gather Oro, peerless, djuicy, ole hound, and a few others --- off we would go, sigh.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. sounds like an excellent place to get rid of Djuicy's growing pot from the easy life.


No point now DJ you found all the gold 8)
 

Oroblanco

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Lucky Eddie wrote
I have the interest - but not the fiscal backing - to do the search myself

I can sure empathize on this issue, though at the moment 'tied down' I have had this very problem for several years. I have gone the 'grubstake' route in the past, but don't want to go that route again. We made sure our grubstake providers made a profit, don't get that impression, just that the pressure for success is much greater when you know that someone is counting on you to find that mine, make that money or they lose. Just my opinion but it is easier to live with a 'failure' and loss when it is one's own money at stake, than to be the cause of your friends/investors losing money. If you are considering finding grubstake partners, be sure that if the venture should fail, that loss of money is not going to hurt your investors over-much.

I look forward to reading more. :icon_thumleft:
Oroblanco
 

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Lucky Eddie

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Feb 9, 2010
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Too true.

Investors pooling their food and rent money, is not whats needed or wanted!

It's a high risk gamble - for those who can afford to lose their investment - those who would lose it anyway on the dogs or GG's or casino - or better yet cigarettes, hard liquor, and loose women. ;D

MY "rough plan" is that - the investors decide the area to be searched and participate in the actual search.

There will be no armchair investors in finding lassters gold - only those who wish to pysically participate, even if it is only washing dishes at base camp!.

I include myself within that group - at 50 Obese and with diabetes - I won't be walking two days camel ride thru the dunes drinking a thimble full of water!

Maybe a short chopper ride and a few hours on a quad!

For investors to have ownership of a project its important they participate in all decision making and all activities where possible & practicable.

When participants have ownership of a project it is far more likely to succeed IMHO.

If it fails, all share that responsibility equally - we ALL put in our cash and our skills & labors and IF we collectively couldn't pull it off - then that's how it ends - we all equally share responsibility for that too.

Often the sheer camaraderie of the trip itself - the relationships and friendships formed, the memories created, more than outweigh, any prize sought!

There is no shame in losing - the shame lies in not having participated at all IMHO.

Cheers
 

Oroblanco

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Lucky Eddie wrote
even if it is only washing dishes at base camp!.

HAY - I can recognize when someone is talking about me - now I have to know, who told on me, that my real job on those treasure hunting trips was "chief cook & bottle washer"! :o ::) :tongue3: :laughing7: Kidding aside, in my book that partner is every bit as important as the one doing the digging.

Lucky Eddie also wrote
Often the sheer camaraderie of the trip itself - the relationships and friendships formed, the memories created, more than outweigh, any prize sought!

More words of wisdom, and your experience is showing amigo! :icon_thumright:

Lucky Eddie also wrote
There is no shame in losing - the shame lies in not having participated at all IMHO.

:headbang: :thumbsup: Life is short, and unless reincarnation becomes a proven fact, it looks like we only get one shot at it.
Oroblanco
 

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Lucky Eddie

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Feb 9, 2010
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Life is short, and unless reincarnation becomes a proven fact, it looks like we only get one shot at it.
Oroblanco

Life is a death sentence - we are all dieing - one day at a time, non of us knows when our allotted number is up.

Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to slide in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy Shit, what a ride!"

Cheers
 

Peerless67

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Oroblanco said:
Lucky Eddie wrote
I have the interest - but not the fiscal backing - to do the search myself

I can sure empathize on this issue, though at the moment 'tied down' I have had this very problem for several years. I have gone the 'grubstake' route in the past, but don't want to go that route again. We made sure our grubstake providers made a profit, don't get that impression, just that the pressure for success is much greater when you know that someone is counting on you to find that mine, make that money or they lose. Just my opinion but it is easier to live with a 'failure' and loss when it is one's own money at stake, than to be the cause of your friends/investors losing money. If you are considering finding grubstake partners, be sure that if the venture should fail, that loss of money is not going to hurt your investors over-much.

I look forward to reading more. :icon_thumleft:
Oroblanco


Actually the whole subject of investors would make an interesting thread. I was offered and turned down a considerable sum from an investor for much the same reason as Oro has posted, to much pressure. I now have a completely different set of problems to overcome than securing investors for my own project.
But nevertheless attracting (for want of a better word) potential investors is a very tricky business, how much info to give away ? percentages, shares, the list is almost endless.
Then there are the unsavoury people who have given treasure hunting/ recovery a bad name. This coupled with the pressure was one of the main reasons I bailed on the offer.
If it all goes belly up how bad may you look ?
A complex and interesting debate, it would make a great thread.

:coffee2:
Gary
 

Oroblanco

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Peerless wrote
Actually the whole subject of investors would make an interesting thread. I was offered and turned down a considerable sum from an investor for much the same reason as Oro has posted, to much pressure. I now have a completely different set of problems to overcome than securing investors for my own project.
But nevertheless attracting (for want of a better word) potential investors is a very tricky business, how much info to give away ? percentages, shares, the list is almost endless.
Then there are the unsavoury people who have given treasure hunting/ recovery a bad name. This coupled with the pressure was one of the main reasons I bailed on the offer.
If it all goes belly up how bad may you look ?
A complex and interesting debate, it would make a great thread.

I agree, it would make for an interesting discussion. There are people who even think it is illegal to have a grubstake partner, or that it is illegal to seek a grubstake; several western states have laws on grubstake agreements which specify certain aspects - California for instance requires that a grubstake agreement be legally recorded. A magazine editor even approached me once to do an article on this subject and the issue of claimjumping, but I am no expert in the legal aspects so had to turn it down - I believe that Canadian laws are different too, and Mexico may well have grubstake laws, I would love to know more on this.

Sorry for the off-topic drift.
Oroblanco
 

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Lucky Eddie

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Feb 9, 2010
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187
The context would be even more broad of we throw in what ever laws might apply in grubstake partners in Australia.

That doesn't mean we should not discuss the topic of course.

Something that concerned me.... in the example i gave of Lasseters gold reef.

Say I pony up my vehicles & quads as part of the expedition, those from Oseas fly in and we hoire a few more vehicles trucks for carting water and fuel and so it goes.

When / if, it all falls in a hole and we cannot find the reef.....

Do I have to then sell all my personal posessions that were put toward the search (vehicles etc) and return those funds to the pool of investors funds to be equally split etc?

Doesn't sound like much but down here in Ozzie land a F 250 4x4 is so rare that they sell for the best part of 100K - the land cruiser another $50K, Quads electric fridges another $10K

Suddenly, using my own equipment, to help out the cause seems like a bad proposition maybe?.

Putting together a party to explore legend of a lost reef - could be a lot harder that it seems.

I think it comes back to the attitude of the investors involved.

ONE possible way to do it is sell the whole thing as a participatory holiday experience, where you pay to be part of this holiday experience with zero guarantees other than you will be in the general area of Lassters last known exploration area - that you will get the chance to search, & that if anythings found, you'll be an equal shareholder in the company formed to exploit the resource...

I'm sure with some creative thought and goodwill - it could be done legally so that everyone's interests are best protected.

Its not so much going into it - that is the problem, its after wards whether we do or don't find the resource sought!

IN that event people MAY want to minimize their losses - or equally maximise their profits by cutting others out!

That's the tough area.

Cheers!
 

Springfield

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Apr 19, 2003
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Peerless67 said:
....Then there are the unsavoury people who have given treasure hunting/ recovery a bad name....

I posted this true story in another thread recently. You might enjoy it.

The Caballo Craftsman Wrench
First, some background. Back in the 1970's, there was much small-time mining activity occuring in the New Mexico mining districts. One type of activity was to take advantage of the legitimate mining companies that were busy staking out large claim blocks in mineralized areas. Small-time operators were able to make money by selling legal claims to the bigger companies by virtue of holding 'nuisance groups' in the midst of the companies' larger holdings. A little courthouse research and some nimble claim staking could place a clever 'prospector' a step ahead of the big boys. This was traditional straight forward opportunism, common practice in mining districts for generations.

An unusual twist in the 1970's US tax code offered a new type of opportunity for mining people. Rich investors of all types found themselves with heavy tax obligations that could be offset by spending money in legitimate 'tax shelters'. Bona fide investments in legal business ventures that lost money was an advantage to people who otherwise would be obliged to turn the money over to the government as income tax. A popular speculative business loss to offset taxes was mining exploration/operation. Many claim stakers, geologists, miners, equipment operators, etc. were hired to burn money in those days by engaging in above-board, legitimate speculative mining ventures which everyone assumed would never turn a profit. Indeed, nobody made a profit, but a lot of money was spent creating jobs for the locals and these expenses offset a lot of taxes for the money guys. They had fun, saved money and created real work. A win-win deal.

One of the edgier 'investments' of the day was in treasure hunting scams. The Caballo Mountains was crawling with shady characters looking for investors to finance treasure recovery expeditions. After all, the Caballos were full of sealed caves full of Spanish gold bars, and those in the know were willing to sell shares in expensive recovery operations, as long as somebody was willing to foot the bill. Some of the investors looked at the treasure hunts as a fun lark and an easy way to burn money. Some were gullible and believed they would soon be fabulously wealthy - very soon.

One particular recovery operation was led by two of T or C's most notorious scammers, both now deceased, who (well-known to locals) shall remain unnamed. The investment group was shown an old caved-in tunnel in the mountains, old maps, historical legends, scientific geotechnical reports, etc. and presented with a recovery plan that would cost lots of money. The two in charge would be due very steep salaries and operating expenses, and the gold bars would be divided amoung all involved when recovered. The contracts were signed, money was put up and the work began.

There was good progress at first clearing part of the tunnel and all were excited. Then there were many lengthy delays, all the time the two scammers drawing their generous paychecks. The investors were brought in routinely for progress meetings. Things dragged on. Lawyers were needed to burn red tape. Equipment broke down and needed expensive repairs. New geotech scans (expensive!) were ordered and the results were very encouraging. Finally, after a couple years, there was a breakthrough. A solid timbered plug was encountered in the tunnel - Spanish! Behind the door may lie the riches of the world. The investors were summoned to the site to be present for the big moment when the plug would be removed and all concerned could gaze, hopefully, on the stacks of gold bars.

The timbers came down and the scammers and their flock reverently entered the treasure chamber behind the big wooden door. They cautiously advanced further down the tunnel with high expectations, but no gold bars were found - only another cave-in! Damn! Well, only one thing to do - spend more money to remove the newest cave-in and keep progressing. As the disappointed investors turned to retrace their steps back towards the big wooden door and back out to the sunlight, one of them happened to shine his light off to the side near the cave-in and saw a metallic reflection! Gold?!? No, it was a big bright shiny Sears Craftsman adjustable wrench that must have slipped out of one of the scammers' tool belts after they faked the cave-in and before they built the big Spanish wooden door. The wrench was inadvertently left on the wrong side of the big door! Ooops!

This particular treasure hunt ended that day, but there have been plenty more since in the Caballos - it's a tradition there.
 

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