Let the tests begin Dfx vs Se

[DFX-SE Gregg]

I gotta say I like your tests Gregg. From what I grasped on this forum since I've been here..you were a dedicated DFX user, so I trust your unbiased comparison.

I agree with the point that White's presets aren't the best. That's why so much has been written on custom programs to get them deeper. I probably won't own a minelab because I now have 3 White's detectors from an old 3000 to the DFX.
Yes, it is brand loyalty, I've been satisfied with my finds and honestly don't think I'd be finding that much more in my area deeper than what I've been finding. But...you never know.

I used to like Fords but I switched to Chevy...not because of how the vehicle was, but on customer satisfaction.
My DFX purchase was based on customer satisfaction.

Until I see a minelab in action...I'll just use my whites.

I look forward to more of your tests Gregg.
Al

Thanks Al....I really enjoyed your response.... You are right Whites without a doubt is a great company with tremendous customer service.... They along with a positive move by Kellyco helped push me past my goal of 10,000 coins last year equipment wise with their help. I too, over 20 years ago used a Whites...still have it...a 6000 d series 3... I actually felt the depth was/is comparable in certain circumstances to the dfx...

I just wanted to compare...and just buying and selling a detector every few weeks to me is not the true answer to learning a machine....

 

[Digger]

Jeff Foster had a very informative post over at DFXONLY on the differences between the DFX's "multi-frequency and the Minelab Explorer. 2 very different technologies.

http://www.dfxonly.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3584

 

[EasyMoney]

Well, as for myself I can say without hesitation that I do not work for White's, but several years ago I did supervise the manufacturing of most of their circuitboards in a small company about 70 miles to the north. .

Nearly everybody still does that, they farm their work out to small companies to have their work done for them. White's are not my favorite detector though, my main weapon is the ROLLS ROYCE of detectors (a Compass Relic & Coin on steroids) and my second choice is the LEXUS of detectors a (cz-70). Both of those have a little depth advantage over the DFX and EXPL, but mostly in worse-than-average soil..

1/2" to 1" is nothing to brag about though.

As far as what one detector does against the other, it's apples vs oranges, because the DFX's and Expl's are two entirely different animals. So are most of the other White's vs Minelabs. As Bob Johnson once said;

Expl's handle bad ground a little better, DFX's are a bit better than the F-75 and Expl in trash, and the F-75's go a little deeper than the other two. If there was a true 2+ inches better depth between the three I would buy one, but I haven't seen that yet in the ground. The halo effect (according to George Payne, Jack Gifford, and Bob Johnson) only exists with iron targets due to their inherent propensity to leach out into the soil so quickly and so easily. Gold, copper, brass, pewter, bronze, etc are semi=precious and it takes hundreds of years for even a miniscule of that ionization to happen, regardless of what environment they may encounter. The decay rate ( a breaking down of the metal particles) is also slower with those too, esecially gold and silver.

Again, air test are only a starter, and the rest is up to the operator to learn his or her machine. It's an interesting observation though, the difference between factory presets vs those done by the operator.

Have fun all. Interesting post.

EasyMoney

 

[DFX-SE Gregg]

Well, as for myself I can say without hesitation that I do not work for White's, but several years ago I did supervise the manufacturing of most of their circuitboards in a small company about 70 miles to the north. .

Nearly everybody still does that, they farm their work out to small companies to have their work done for them. White's are not my favorite detector though, my main weapon is the ROLLS ROYCE of detectors (a Compass Relic & Coin on steroids) and my second choice is the LEXUS of detectors a (cz-70). Both of those have a little depth advantage over the DFX and EXPL, but mostly in worse-than-average soil..

1/2" to 1" is nothing to brag about though.

As far as what one detector does against the other, it's apples vs oranges, because the DFX's and Expl's are two entirely different animals. So are most of the other White's vs Minelabs. As Bob Johnson once said;

Expl's handle bad ground a little better, DFX's are a bit better than the F-75 and Expl in trash, and the F-75's go a little deeper than the other two. If there was a true 2+ inches better depth between the three I would buy one, but I haven't seen that yet in the ground. The halo effect (according to George Payne, Jack Gifford, and Bob Johnson) only exists with iron targets due to their inherent propensity to leach out into the soil so quickly and so easily. Gold, copper, brass, pewter, bronze, etc are semi=precious and it takes hundreds of years for even a miniscule of that ionization to happen, regardless of what environment they may encounter. The decay rate ( a breaking down of the metal particles) is also slower with those too, esecially gold and silver.

Again, air test are only a starter, and the rest is up to the operator to learn his or her machine. It's an interesting observation though, the difference between factory presets vs those done by the operator.

Have fun all. Interesting post.

EasyMoney

Thanks good post...seems like there is always more to learn in this fascinating hobby!

 

[Bridge End Farm]

glad your getting out Greg, you start selling your DFX accessories let me know lol

 

[DFX-SE Gregg]

glad your getting out Greg, you start selling your DFX accessories let me know lol

I actually am going to have a couple brand new items to sell...but think one of them is sold...so I will not mention...the other is a brand new sealed ni-cad battery pack for the dfx, m6 and xlt...but obviously it wont come cheap! If interested pm me for details...between shipping and retail would be about a $15 savings...

 

[dewcon4414]

I guess i have to ask if you are using the same DFX that you didnt think was giving you any depth. Any time you make a comparison that isnt a labratory test then you might be confusing potential buyers as well. Especially since no two detectors are created equal. I dont think you will convence a DFX or Explorer user with any experience that their machine doesnt have advantages over the other. Im using both as well and find each have their advantage. Both are great machines. I was surprised how much more i could learn about the DFX by using the SE. Really makes you think about how best to use them.

 

[DFX-SE Gregg]

I guess i have to ask if you are using the same DFX that you didnt think was giving you any depth. Any time you make a comparison that isnt a labratory test then you might be confusing potential buyers as well. Especially since no two detectors are created equal. I dont think you will convence a DFX or Explorer user with any experience that their machine doesnt have advantages over the other. Im using both as well and find each have their advantage. Both are great machines. I was surprised how much more i could learn about the DFX by using the SE. Really makes you think about how best to use them.

Good point...also everyone having different soil conditions too....but then i thought wait...at least the tests are being conducted in the same soil conditions.... I am not trying to convince anyone that one is better than the other....just in general trying to see what the differences are. And I agree, believe me I thought the same thing...maybe one will help me learn the other better....that has alot to do with me keeping both for now...

 

[rebelLT]

Gregg. When the weather breaks take the SE out and start hunting. Figure out what everything sounds like, what the machine is doing, then experiment. Play with the settings, switch between deep, fast, ferrous and non ferrous, gain, sense auto and manual, sweep speed etc. You will find a happy place somewhere in all of this. Leave the DFX in the closet for a while. When you think you have the SE figured out drag the DFX out and start comparing them. Take them both on the hunt. Compare real signals in the wild. That is the ONLY way, IMO, to compare any two detectors. Good luck with you new machine.

 

[DFX-SE Gregg]

Gregg. When the weather breaks take the SE out and start hunting. Figure out what everything sounds like, what the machine is doing, then experiment. Play with the settings, switch between deep, fast, ferrous and non ferrous, gain, sense auto and manual, sweep speed etc. You will find a happy place somewhere in all of this. Leave the DFX in the closet for a while. When you think you have the SE figured out drag the DFX out and start comparing them. Take them both on the hunt. Compare real signals in the wild. That is the ONLY way, IMO, to compare any two detectors. Good luck with you new machine.

Thanks will be doing that also...the basic tests are just for curiosity... It will be more fun when I learn the se, and more interesting head to head in the field I am sure...

 

[West Jersey Detecting]

I do not dispute the results, but I think there are some clarifications necessary.

Whether air tests will give more depth than soil is debateable. It depends on the soil. Some conditions will make the soil more conductive (usually wet or damp soil) which can actually add to the depth range. On the other hand, mineralization will impede depth. So I think air testing will give a good average reading.

Secondly, it is my understanding that the factory settings on the DFX are very conservative, for stability, even in the EEPROM modes. I took a long hard look before investing in my new metal detector and was torn between the "Sexy SE" and the DFX, and the thing that finally pushed me to the DFX was programability of the DFX vs. the Minelab. I need to be able to have as much control over my environment as possible. Although I already knew the Explorer has a slight depth advantage in preset modes, I thought I could push the DFX a little further than I could push the SE. I hope I am correct in this reasoning. The $200 savings did not hurt either!

No doubt these two machines are the among the best available. Which one is right depends on what your detecting goals are, as well as your local ground conditions.

Just my opinion!

 

[Captn SE]

I took a long hard look before investing in my new metal detector and was torn between the "Sexy SE" and the DFX, and the thing that finally pushed me to the DFX was programability of the DFX vs. the Minelab. I need to be able to have as much control over my environment as possible. Although I already knew the Explorer has a slight depth advantage in preset modes, I thought I could push the DFX a little further than I could push the SE. I hope I am correct in this reasoning. The $200 savings did not hurt either!

Hey Neil, be thankful you don't live in California when you made your decision to purchase a DFX. Hoards of detectorists in Southern and Northern CA have been trading their DFX's in for Explorers. Most every md'er who is serious about finding deep, old coins knows that the ground mineralization here really affects the DFX's and their ability to find deep targets in the turf. I'm on a detecting forum here in CA, and it's astonishing to see the transition over the past 2 years of former DFX owners who are now Explorer hunters. All 8 of my detecting buddies are swinging Explorers now. They got tired of seeing me pulling so many silvers out of the ground during each of our hunts and not being able to hear my deep silver hits.

I hope your DFX performs a whole lot better in your area than it has in mine.

HH,
CAPTN SE
Dan

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I can second what Dan (captn' Fi) says. Even before Dan entered the scene (you've only been md'ing a few years, right Dan?), I recall about 7 or 8 years ago, when 10 or 15 guys would all meet up d/t an internet post, to descend on a park for turf hunting. At that time, it was an even mix of Whites, Fishers, a Garret or two, and maybe a single Explorer or Sovereign. But now if you called for the same get-together, it would nearly all be Explorers. Why? Because at each subsequent outing, the Explorers were winning hands down. I was one of those that switched from a Whites, because, having been shown several flagged signals, I had to admit that ..... if I had passed over it on my own, I probably wouldn't have heard it.

Sure, the tooty-fluty takes some getting used to, but once you catch on, the tunes tell you lots of info.

Hey Dan, did you ever get that in-line probe fixed? (frayed wire or whatever it was)

 

[Captn SE]

Hey Dan, did you ever get that in-line probe fixed? (frayed wire or whatever it was)

Hi Tom,

Good to see you on Tnet!! Actually, I had been detecting since my teens, but took a 15 yr. hiatus in between...was a Whites diehard until last year.

Haven't got the probe fixed yet...it still acts the same. The only good thing about it is that I sure know when I forget to flip the probe switch back to the coil position....lots of falsing if I don't....

HH,
CAPTN SE
Dan

 

[Digger]

Thats why it's important to know the where and what when choosing a detector.

Personally, I'm more concerned about finding a gold chain at 2" than a BB at 12". The ability to find a BB at 12" does not mean you will find a gold chain at 2".

I think it's just as important to find stuff with the DFX and then test the SE's ability on the same target. The depth of the SE isn't important too me because I get all the depth I want out of my DFX. Now if the SE can find a gold ring at 5" that the DFX can't, I'll be impressed.

If there is one thing age has taught me it's not to fall for "the grass is greener" syndrome. I've learned to take my time and analyze all the information I can get before making my own decision. What I've found is that the vast majority of the time when compared as fair as possible, the results are the same. The DFX finds stuff the SE misses, and the SE finds stuff the DFX misses. Makes perfect sense when you think about it. Thats why these 2 titans still meet in the ring today. There has been no unanimous winner. No undisputed champion if you will.

What we do see a lot is a typical scenario something like this: DFX owner buys a ML SE and finds stuff missed by the DFX. Looks good on the boards, but seldom seems to pan out in the field. Yes they seem to be happy with their move from the DFX to the SE, but the hoards of expected treasure just never seem to materialize. The occasional found goodies once again entices current DFX users with the grass is greener or carrot on a stick, but for me the jury is still out.

We all know you can't get every thing, and I prove it all the time. I'm still pulling goodies out of a park I myself have hunted to death for near 20 years. Not to mention all the other swinging detectors around town. So to take a new detector to the "hunted out park" and find a few goodies "missed by the DFX" isn't all that impressive. In fact it's to be expected. Now if the new detector pulls goody after goody, then I'd say it's more than expected.

First off, I really don't think we will see a test that just out right crowns a champion. Mainly for the same reason this battle still rages. There is no clear champion.

Second, I think the only fair test would be by 2 individuals with equal skill on their detectors, side by side checking each others targets and comparing accuracy and ability. We do this all the time when I hunt with my buddies. Once one of us gets a signal we call the others over to check it with theirs. It might be a questionable signal, or a signal you know is something good. The results is everyone gets a better understanding of how their own detector reacts to different targets, and in the end how their detector stacks up to the others.

Now there is one anomaly in this ongoing debate I have yet to fully understand. What we see far more is the DFX owner thinking about or moving to the SE, and not many SE owners moving to the DFX, although we see a few talking about it. I think some of this can be attributed to which country they live in. Most Americans seem to buy the DFX and most in the UK buy the SE. It seems us Americans are more prone to the grass is greener syndrome. Because of this lopsided migration, we see more of the grass is greener stories of the SE and few of the DFX, yet their is still no clear champion.

Putting all personal feeling aside, I think the one thing we all can agree on is that to have had this fight going on for so long and still no clear winner, both of these detectors are champions in the ring.

 

[West Jersey Detecting]

Great reply, Digger.

I always go back to the fact that 99% of the good coins are found between 2 & 7 inches. The real deep ones are the ones that have such a small profile that they are the ones that are easily passed over by any detector.

As far as depth, I found a Vermont copper at more than 10 inches using a $200 Garrett ACE 250, which happens to be a well balanced, deep seeking detector. However, I still need the programability and control that only the DFX offers; maybe at the sacrifice of a few inches of mostly unnecessary depth.

 

[ResearchandRecovery]

Last time I looked not too many people were using their detectors to find coins in the air

Air Tests aren't the way to test 'depth' and it's definitely not a way to compare machines side by side. The only thing they prove is that your machine is working.

The targets should be buried, and even then, you're only testing the depth of each machine in your soil type. The mineralization isn't the same for everyone's neck of the woods which may make one machine out perform one another.

The "Strong, Repeatable Signal" means nil. If you know what your machine is telling you, you can pull quarters well past 12 inches with either machine.

Also, why would you want to drop $1200 for a machine to just use the preset and not tune on it? That makes no sense. The "Out of the Box" comparison is only showing what each group of engineers believe to be a good average setting for everywhere.

Before posting a test like this, there are some things you should have taken into consideration:
-Air doesn't have mineralization.
-Most people will tune their machines from the presets.
-You can have a dime on edge at 3 inches and not give a strong, repeatable signal.

Also, you didn't state if this test was done indoors or outdoors which leads me to believe you conducted it in the comfort of inside your home not outside.

Sorry, but from a testing stand point, I would have to call this and the other test void.

-Ian

 

[DFX-SE Gregg]

Last time I looked not too many people were using their detectors to find coins in the air

Air Tests aren't the way to test 'depth' and it's definitely not a way to compare machines side by side. The only thing they prove is that your machine is working.

The targets should be buried, and even then, you're only testing the depth of each machine in your soil type. The mineralization isn't the same for everyone's neck of the woods which may make one machine out perform one another.

The "Strong, Repeatable Signal" means nil. If you know what your machine is telling you, you can pull quarters well past 12 inches with either machine.

Also, why would you want to drop $1200 for a machine to just use the preset and not tune on it? That makes no sense. The "Out of the Box" comparison is only showing what each group of engineers believe to be a good average setting for everywhere.

Before posting a test like this, there are some things you should have taken into consideration:
-Air doesn't have mineralization.
-Most people will tune their machines from the presets.
-You can have a dime on edge at 3 inches and not give a strong, repeatable signal.

Also, you didn't state if this test was done indoors or outdoors which leads me to believe you conducted it in the comfort of inside your home not outside.

Sorry, but from a testing stand point, I would have to call this and the other test void.

-Ian

You can call it what you want.... the reason starting as if out of box was I do not know the Se well enough to do the test any other way yet! That was clearly stated when I talked about these beginning tests.... The reason for the air tests and not ground was my ground did not start to thaw until yesterday....

By the way these tests will be beneficial to anyone who tries them... I spent alot of time listening to the different coin tones of the se...and today in my first full hunt with it...got a Merc.... Thanks for your opinion though....but I appeciate all of them even the 20 or so people across the different forums who sent me a private message saying it was a good idea to start the tests simple... You don't know me... I will get up to speed very quickly on the se...and the tests will become more interesting...

 

[Bridge End Farm]

LOL Gregg you have fun ok, thats what is is all about. I am enjoying the tests and standing by to acquire my back-up DFX when available LOL

 

[DFX-SE Gregg]

LOL Gregg you have fun ok, thats what is is all about. I am enjoying the tests and standing by to acquire my back-up DFX when available LOL

Thanks... there is always one in the crowd... Lucky for me though most enjoyed the post... Hope you got a chance to read the jewelry test I conducted(MY LATEST ONE)...it was very close...the dfx went toe to toe with the se...was a fun test....Also the tests will continue....