Lethal Lead

[Joe G from Md]

Years ago had permission to hunt a property with an abandoned Church. The Church was used as hospital after battle of Antietam, found these fired bullets just outside window where amputated limbs where piled. A few of these may have been fatal.

 

[Rookster]

Looks like some hit home alright. Congrats

 

[makarelic]

Joe,

Been following your posts for several months, these bullets to me are most significant. I grew up south of Sharpsburg, wondering if you ever detected with anyone from Dargan, Locust Grove and Boonsboro areas (won't mention any names, 2 gentlemen have passed and one I just visited w/ recently). Also, did you ever hit any ground near Dog Street or Reno Monument Rd.? Thanks again for sharing your many finds with all of us.

 

[Davers]

They make one think.

I wish there was a way to tell what the bullets hit; but then again I may not want to know.

80 % I'd guess , of the CW bullets I have dug in the past 2 years have been Fired.

Also cool that each is unique in its own way.
Davers

 

[releventchair]

Bone breakers.
Infection leading to death followed for many.
Amputations were straight forward. Different today ,but knowledge from them factors.
Scraping bone before closing over it ,vs not ... Today's sanitation ect.
I read a bit about Civil war amputations when recovering from a modern one.
A world of difference....Let alone the reason.

 

[Kray Gelder]

Grisly relics.

 

[TrailsJaunt]

I am new to metal detecting but in the area you mention. Looking for any advice on equipment for use on the mountain. I am fairly close to Reno Monument area. We have spent hours with metal detector and could not eliminate noise from minerals. Got frustrated and picked a rock to dig near and found a cannonball in minutes without detector. Any advise for detector that does well on mountain?

First post was attempting to reply to makarelic above but any anyone with input would be appreciated

 

[chub]

Would bullets really be shaped like that from hitting a body? They appear to have been fired into the ground? I say that because I often find bullets at a boer war site where NO action ever took place. The bullets I find look similar but were normally fired to scare away the baboons . (from what I understand)

Chub

 

[Worm-Slicer]

Here's an Enfield bullet stuck in a femur bone of a Union soldier. I saw this in some archeology article online and saved the photo and thought it was interesting. Can't imagine what this poor soldier went through and with it this high on the femur, it's obvious he had no chance of surviving this wound.

 

[makarelic]

Hello TrailsJaunt, know your ground well and yep the higher up the mountain you go the more noisy signals can be. I still use my old White's 5900 DiPro, ground balance the heck out of it and don't overdo discrimination or you might miss some goodies! Heck, I'd say you did great without a machine, keep digg'n near them rocks!!!!! Post a pic of your cannonball, I'd love to see it. If you'd like to check out some of the relics that came off the mountain over the years, drive down to the little museum in Boonsboro on main street and you'll get an eye full for sure.

 

[RustyRelics]

I'll have to compare some of my bullets to those. Do you notice anything different in those, vs. a dirt impact bullet? Softer feel, more curve?

Funny y'all would mention the Reno monument. My gggreat uncle served under his command.

 

[civil_war22]

I've personally dug bullets from a field hospital site on our parents old farm that at the time still had the two story home that pre-dates the civil war. The bullets weren't found on the immediate outside of the house, but there was a depression in the ground we always thought was awkward looking, as it was on the side of the house where the ground dropped off into a little ravine. It was in this area the little depression was found, that we located approximately 45-50 bullets, all mushroomed, flattened, or had been hit with a saw, also along with the bullets we found a broken bone saw blade, and other medical supplies. I wish we would have dug out, and sifted the dirt, but we were still in school at the time, and owned 6 chicken houses, and numerous heads of cattle so we stayed fairly busy until later in the evening. One thing I still wish we would have done was purchased the home, along with the front, and back yard because in the upstairs area of the house there was no bedrooms, it was a giant bedroom, that had a strange "eery" closet. Inside the closet was a area of the wall that you could hear was hollow. One day we climbed up on top of the roof and opened the ventilation vent from the roof, and could see a room we couldn't access, that had a makeshift table, two handheld candle holders, a lantern, and some torn cloth. The space hadn't seen any activity in so many years you had to literally shine a flashlight down in there to see everything because the spider webs took up most of the incoming light from the sun. We always tried finding a way inside that room, but never found a way. The house was re-occupied from the former owner after the war, apparently he, or the soldiers had sealed the area off, and was never touched again. Mrs. Goodman the old lady we bought the farm from knew the original owners family who lived in it prior to the farmers death, because they moved in to it, and they showed her bullets, and cannon balls the old man had found on the property we owned while he was out plowing the field next to his house. When she sold us the property, chicken houses, and land, the house came along with it, including the fenced in yard, and had a tenant in the house she rented it to a few months prior to us buying it. The family that lived there didn't stay very long, I would say less than 6 months total, and said it was haunted, and them, and their little girls could hear movement going in, and out of the house, and up and down the stairs. My parents blew it off thinking they just didn't want to pay rent, so mom, and dad had the electric meter, and propane tank taken back by the electric, and gas people, then padlocked the doors, and even put wooden rods along the windows so no one could break in. We used it as a storage area for most of our stuff we couldn't fit in the shop or other barn we had. One day we were down there just my brother, mom, and I to get some stuff for I want to say Christmas, and we heard someone walking down the stairs. We all ran outside, mom stayed at the house while I ran to the house to get dad to bring his gun down there, and my brother stayed in the front of the house to make sure no one came out the front. Dad got there, went inside, checking all the rooms, and no one was inside. Needless to say we checked all the windows they were all still locked with the pieces of wood still locking them in place, we left, and locked the doors, and padlocks. On some nights while out checking the chickens in the chicken houses you could see a light on upstairs , but there was no electricity, and wasn't very bright, and flickered like a candle would. Sadly when we sold the farm, we didn't keep the house, and front, and back yard, and when the new Yankees who came from New York bought the chicken farm and 40 acres, they had the old rent house burned down, and in the process almost burned down one of the chicken houses in the process, almost as if the house had one last effort to make itself known. The bullets we found weren't maybe 30 yards from the back door of the house, and an area where the wind wouldn't blow the stench of the rotting flesh of severed limbs, so they picked a rather good spot to dump them, as they were somewhat down the ravine, and huge walnut trees kept the area out of view from the house.

 

[Davers]

I am new to metal detecting but in the area you mention. Looking for any advice on equipment for use on the mountain. I am fairly close to Reno Monument area. We have spent hours with metal detector and could not eliminate noise from minerals. Got frustrated and picked a rock to dig near and found a cannonball in minutes without detector. Any advise for detector that does well on mountain?

First post was attempting to reply to makarelic above but any anyone with input would be appreciated

Maybe try less discrimination , smaller coil , there are many hot rocks here & sometimes my machines will not pin-point .

I'd try these and other ways to see if it will work better, 'A lower frequency might work ?

Best to put in time dig most everything , learn your machine . All my opinion.
GD & Welcome to the site.
Davers

 

[Davers]

Here's an Enfield bullet stuck in a femur bone of a Union soldier. I saw this in some archeology article online and saved the photo and thought it was interesting. Can't imagine what this poor soldier went through and with it this high on the femur, it's obvious he had no chance of surviving this wound.
View attachment 1782659

OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for posting the interesting & informative picture.

 

[releventchair]

Here's an Enfield bullet stuck in a femur bone of a Union soldier. I saw this in some archeology article online and saved the photo and thought it was interesting. Can't imagine what this poor soldier went through and with it this high on the femur, it's obvious he had no chance of surviving this wound.
View attachment 1782659

Horrific mortality rate...

There was some knowledge /experience gained in the civil war regarding hip dis-articulations , but far too go...

https://books.google.com/books?id=M...ip disarticulation amputation success&f=false

 

[Davers]

I've personally dug bullets from a field hospital site on our parents old farm that at the time still had the two story home that pre-dates the civil war. The bullets weren't found on the immediate outside of the house, but there was a depression in the ground we always thought was awkward looking, as it was on the side of the house where the ground dropped off into a little ravine. It was in this area the little depression was found, that we located approximately 45-50 bullets, all mushroomed, flattened, or had been hit with a saw, also along with the bullets we found a broken bone saw blade, and other medical supplies. I wish we would have dug out, and sifted the dirt, but we were still in school at the time, and owned 6 chicken houses, and numerous heads of cattle so we stayed fairly busy until later in the evening. One thing I still wish we would have done was purchased the home, along with the front, and back yard because in the upstairs area of the house there was no bedrooms, it was a giant bedroom, that had a strange "eery" closet. Inside the closet was a area of the wall that you could hear was hollow. One day we climbed up on top of the roof and opened the ventilation vent from the roof, and could see a room we couldn't access, that had a makeshift table, two handheld candle holders, a lantern, and some torn cloth. The space hadn't seen any activity in so many years you had to literally shine a flashlight down in there to see everything because the spider webs took up most of the incoming light from the sun. We always tried finding a way inside that room, but never found a way. The house was re-occupied from the former owner after the war, apparently he, or the soldiers had sealed the area off, and was never touched again. Mrs. Goodman the old lady we bought the farm from knew the original owners family who lived in it prior to the farmers death, because they moved in to it, and they showed her bullets, and cannon balls the old man had found on the property we owned while he was out plowing the field next to his house. When she sold us the property, chicken houses, and land, the house came along with it, including the fenced in yard, and had a tenant in the house she rented it to a few months prior to us buying it. The family that lived there didn't stay very long, I would say less than 6 months total, and said it was haunted, and them, and their little girls could hear movement going in, and out of the house, and up and down the stairs. My parents blew it off thinking they just didn't want to pay rent, so mom, and dad had the electric meter, and propane tank taken back by the electric, and gas people, then padlocked the doors, and even put wooden rods along the windows so no one could break in. We used it as a storage area for most of our stuff we couldn't fit in the shop or other barn we had. One day we were down there just my brother, mom, and I to get some stuff for I want to say Christmas, and we heard someone walking down the stairs. We all ran outside, mom stayed at the house while I ran to the house to get dad to bring his gun down there, and my brother stayed in the front of the house to make sure no one came out the front. Dad got there, went inside, checking all the rooms, and no one was inside. Needless to say we checked all the windows they were all still locked with the pieces of wood still locking them in place, we left, and locked the doors, and padlocks. On some nights while out checking the chickens in the chicken houses you could see a light on upstairs , but there was no electricity, and wasn't very bright, and flickered like a candle would. Sadly when we sold the farm, we didn't keep the house, and front, and back yard, and when the new Yankees who came from New York bought the chicken farm and 40 acres, they had the old rent house burned down, and in the process almost burned down one of the chicken houses in the process, almost as if the house had one last effort to make itself known. The bullets we found weren't maybe 30 yards from the back door of the house, and an area where the wind wouldn't blow the stench of the rotting flesh of severed limbs, so they picked a rather good spot to dump them, as they were somewhat down the ravine, and huge walnut trees kept the area out of view from the house.

Woah!
Great Story , do you still own the relics .

Ya know sometimes I wonder if I brought something into the house attached to certain Civil War finds.

 

[civil_war22]

Woah!
Great Story , do you still own the relics .

Ya know sometimes I wonder if I brought something into the house attached to certain Civil War finds.

Yes I still have every one of them. They are in a group all by themselves in my display case. Another place that had a odd encounter I think I wrote in the paranormal section was a day I was digging in some trenches from the civil war. That day is one I’ll always remember. I believed in the paranormal already from living at that farm, little history of trenches if anyone finds bullets fired on the inside of a dug in trench more than likely that biller had passed through someone. On more then one occasion while detecting those trenches I’ve found mushroomed bullets on the inside of them, and they couldn’t have been shot through because the trenches are on a mountainside, so anyone shooting up at them would just shoot the dirt, and rock removed that they place in front of the trench for cover.

 

[RustyRelics]

Could mushroomed bullets be the key to seeing if they have hit people?



This bullet hit dirt, it was found on Culps hill, Gettysburg. Note how it is not a perfect mushroom, but rather a sloppy one.




This bullet was found west of Reynolds Woods, Gettysburg. It is a perfect mushroom, pretty smooth on the other side. My dad found one at Chancellorsville, it was a 100 percent smooth, mushroom. I'd like to see a good pile of bullets 100% known to have hit people, because right now, it seems that perfectly mushroomed bullets seem to be the norm. There has to be exceptions of course.

 

[devldog]

I've personally dug bullets from a field hospital site on our parents old farm that at the time still had the two story home that pre-dates the civil war. The bullets weren't found on the immediate outside of the house, but there was a depression in the ground we always thought was awkward looking, as it was on the side of the house where the ground dropped off into a little ravine. It was in this area the little depression was found, that we located approximately 45-50 bullets, all mushroomed, flattened, or had been hit with a saw, also along with the bullets we found a broken bone saw blade, and other medical supplies. I wish we would have dug out, and sifted the dirt, but we were still in school at the time, and owned 6 chicken houses, and numerous heads of cattle so we stayed fairly busy until later in the evening. One thing I still wish we would have done was purchased the home, along with the front, and back yard because in the upstairs area of the house there was no bedrooms, it was a giant bedroom, that had a strange "eery" closet. Inside the closet was a area of the wall that you could hear was hollow. One day we climbed up on top of the roof and opened the ventilation vent from the roof, and could see a room we couldn't access, that had a makeshift table, two handheld candle holders, a lantern, and some torn cloth. The space hadn't seen any activity in so many years you had to literally shine a flashlight down in there to see everything because the spider webs took up most of the incoming light from the sun. We always tried finding a way inside that room, but never found a way. The house was re-occupied from the former owner after the war, apparently he, or the soldiers had sealed the area off, and was never touched again. Mrs. Goodman the old lady we bought the farm from knew the original owners family who lived in it prior to the farmers death, because they moved in to it, and they showed her bullets, and cannon balls the old man had found on the property we owned while he was out plowing the field next to his house. When she sold us the property, chicken houses, and land, the house came along with it, including the fenced in yard, and had a tenant in the house she rented it to a few months prior to us buying it. The family that lived there didn't stay very long, I would say less than 6 months total, and said it was haunted, and them, and their little girls could hear movement going in, and out of the house, and up and down the stairs. My parents blew it off thinking they just didn't want to pay rent, so mom, and dad had the electric meter, and propane tank taken back by the electric, and gas people, then padlocked the doors, and even put wooden rods along the windows so no one could break in. We used it as a storage area for most of our stuff we couldn't fit in the shop or other barn we had. One day we were down there just my brother, mom, and I to get some stuff for I want to say Christmas, and we heard someone walking down the stairs. We all ran outside, mom stayed at the house while I ran to the house to get dad to bring his gun down there, and my brother stayed in the front of the house to make sure no one came out the front. Dad got there, went inside, checking all the rooms, and no one was inside. Needless to say we checked all the windows they were all still locked with the pieces of wood still locking them in place, we left, and locked the doors, and padlocks. On some nights while out checking the chickens in the chicken houses you could see a light on upstairs , but there was no electricity, and wasn't very bright, and flickered like a candle would. Sadly when we sold the farm, we didn't keep the house, and front, and back yard, and when the new Yankees who came from New York bought the chicken farm and 40 acres, they had the old rent house burned down, and in the process almost burned down one of the chicken houses in the process, almost as if the house had one last effort to make itself known. The bullets we found weren't maybe 30 yards from the back door of the house, and an area where the wind wouldn't blow the stench of the rotting flesh of severed limbs, so they picked a rather good spot to dump them, as they were somewhat down the ravine, and huge walnut trees kept the area out of view from the house.

Very interesting story. Thanks for sharing this with us.

 

[civil_war22]

Could mushroomed bullets be the key to seeing if they have hit people?

View attachment 1783236

This bullet hit dirt, it was found on Culps hill, Gettysburg. Note how it is not a perfect mushroom, but rather a sloppy one.


View attachment 1783237

This bullet was found west of Reynolds Woods, Gettysburg. It is a perfect mushroom, pretty smooth on the other side. My dad found one at Chancellorsville, it was a 100 percent smooth, mushroom. I'd like to see a good pile of bullets 100% known to have hit people, because right now, it seems that perfectly mushroomed bullets seem to be the norm. There has to be exceptions of course.

The one key thing a bullet causes is not just a hole, but a shockwave. A knife, arrow, or any pointy object can cause a hole, but a bullet will cause massive internal pressure gains once it enters the body by reaching mere shockwave alone. The shockwave alone in a bullet has been known to fracture bones in some patients without actually physically touching the bone. The term “permanent cavity” is the area where the shockwave expands upon entering the body, obliterating the organs, tissue, and thin blood vessels, and arteries within the human body. Take a .380 hollow point for example. Doesn’t seem like a large round at all by terms of what size bullets used in the Civil War, but the .380 hollow points cause more damage now than they would have back then, because of the changes in powder, charge, and the hollow point design. A soldier would have been lucky to have a through, and through wound considering they’d have to first fish the bullet out of their body. Take into consideration that the bullet is traveling at upwards of 1200fps in a musket alone, and the sheer speed, and impact on the human skin alone causes the outer tissue to ripple from the shock wave, and as the bullet enters it only gets bigger. I worked less enforcement long enough to see the ugly side of gunshot victims, and the shear magnitude a modern handgun bullet would do to someone’s body, and have seen the effects of hunting rifles as well. The main causes of death in patients who suffer gunshot wounds is hemorrhaging, blood loss due to severed artery, shock to vital organs from the production of the shockwave, embolism, or even asphyxiation due to blood entering the lungs.

I know the answer you want is: are all mushroomed bullets ones fired into someone’s body?
The answer is more harder to answer when dealing with bullets that are 150+ years ago due to the fact that we’ll just never know unless you find some supporting evidence, ie: found next to many other ones along with pieces of surgical equipment. With the advent of modern science finding which bullets entered the body of a modern gun, which gun fired it, and who it belongs to is a lot simpler now due to the fact that modern firearms have rifling grooves that cause small striations in the bullets. After 5-6 shots a microscopic amount of the rifling is changed due to the pressure of the bullet, exploding gases, and the bullet itself twisting its way down the barrel.

I was a Crime Scene Analyst, under the main Major Crimes unit, and Homicide Unit, worked under the Chief Crime Scene Analyst, and Luminol, hydrogen peroxide, and sodium hydroxide was used on crime scenes we worked, I was no chemist, but bullets nowadays that are shot in to someone show signs of it via blood staining, tissue, and other bodily fluids. Now if a bullet from 150+ years ago could be found in an area of where there wasn’t the possibility of moisture, and other contaminants Luminol would be a possible way to determine if it hit a human body, but it’s still not definitive. Sorry for the long post, but the forensic science behind bullet wounds, trace evidence, and other things that would result in injury or death from firearms is something I’m good at determining, but like I said unless found in the same location of a known hospital, or found along with a bone saw, and other bullets it would be easier. Sadly harder mud, and dirt can cause the same mushroom effect, and make it hard to tell what it hit.