Lets all rally to convince this guy to stop

[SFBayArea]

Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

This guy in my opinion is just killing it for our this hobby.. openly broadcasting the idea of CRHing on Ebay... great just let everyone know.. and eventually everyone figure out they can get them for face value.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300570968905&ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:US:1123

I sent this guy a message to ask him to please stop and re-evaluate his logic on this. He's shooting himself in the foot or our feet too. Maybe if other people here can send him a message, he'll stop too. I don't have a problem with individual coins for auction or maybe even a few rolls every so often but massive wholesale rolls for sale is just down right bad for the hobby. Like I've said, if everyone did this, it would over real quick.

It's kinda of scam in a way since he doesn't note that the majority of the rolls will not have silver. Praying on unknowing people and giving them ideas of CRHing.

I'm just asking other TNet members here to send him a polite message to convince him to stop this practice. It's just bad for the hobby long term. It's also bad for people who want to sell individual pieces on Feebay because it gives buyers ideas on where to get them instead. We don't need to be rude but a well written message to him and hopefully from enough people will get him to stop.

 

[tgcougar]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Mint_coin_production

From 1964 through 1969, they minted over a BILLION half dollars. From WWII through 1959, another 750 MILLION (give or take). Non-silver mintages are somewhere between 3.5 and 4 BILLION.

Yes, a lot were melted thanks to the Hunt brothers and many more through the years. Probably the same amount or more is sitting in personal collections (including everyone's who is reading this).

But, seriously, what is the impact of the addition of 100 collectors every day to CRH? If it's even a HUNDRED - the link shows 190 views (many of which will be those from this forum) and he only has a 116 feedback. This guy is not setting the world on fire in regards to bringing awareness to this hobby. Maybe he'll bring in somebody that you end up liking and respecting to the hobby. The more the merrier; I'm not going to retire off this hobby.

Seems like a little green monster may have been writing the initial post in this thread...

 

[SFBayArea]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Mint_coin_production

From 1964 through 1969, they minted over a BILLION half dollars. From WWII through 1959, another 750 MILLION (give or take). Non-silver mintages are somewhere between 3.5 and 4 BILLION.

Yes, a lot were melted thanks to the Hunt brothers and many more through the years. Probably the same amount or more is sitting in personal collections (including everyone's who is reading this).

But, seriously, what is the impact of the addition of 100 collectors every day to CRH? If it's even a HUNDRED - the link shows 190 views (many of which will be those from this forum) and he only has a 116 feedback. This guy is not setting the world on fire in regards to bringing awareness to this hobby. Maybe he'll bring in somebody that you end up liking and respecting to the hobby. The more the merrier; I'm not going to retire off this hobby.

Seems like a little green monster may have been writing the initial post in this thread...

If you look at his feedback, he just started doing this in May and he's sold a bunch. Also that is just one link to one of his auctions.. he has multiple auctions for these rolls. Most people that care to look at his auctions are new collectors. His coins that he sells are circulated. No experienced collector will pay a premium or even $7.00 for circulateds. Also out of those 100 new CRHers per day you estimated, if that's the rate per day by your estimate.. that's 365,000 new CRHers per year. How many of them become monster searchers? How many decide to do 15 to 20 boxes a week maybe one in your neighborhood? Some people may think that they can add to their retirement. There was post about some guy that does 40 boxes a week a while back.... and people estimating what the guy would've gotten after 10 years of it. I've read posts here where the little guy gets mad at the big guy for doing larger orders. It's obviously people's right to do what they wish with their money but there's certainly no need to promote the hobby like what this guy is doing with his auctions. Guess not enough people think outside the box here.

 

[cheese]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

I don't CRH, but I buy and sell on ebay. I don't buy something based on absolutely no information other than the sales pitch the seller has to offer. Just like when you go to a yard sale and someone tries to tell you the item you're looking at is worth $200 but they'll sell it to you for $50... do you buy it based on that alone? If you spend foolishly, it's your fault, not the sellers who sold you the things you bought. If someone sees the auction and decides to try it without educating themselves first, then they decided to take a risk. It may or may not pan out, and that will result in education for the buyer. A learning experience is never free.

I just don't see anything wrong with it unless he absolutely did not get them from a bank (and really, even if he didn't, what difference does it make?) or there are no 1983-D halves worth $7. If he is finding a way to get his bills paid by selling something on ebay and not taking my tax dollars by getting on some govt program, then I applaud him. I wish more people had the gumption to get out there and put an idea into action. A fool and his money will soon be parted. I don't think this guy is out there to part fools and their money, he is just trying to talk up what he has for sale... albeit in a different manner than you or I might choose. I don't think millions of folks who have never CRH before will be duped by his auction, or will even see it. I mean, how would this even pop up in their searches if they know nothing about coins or CRHing?

Just my opinion on the subject.

 

[Bentfork]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

I personally am not standing up for or sticking up for this person. My take on it is - okay he's pushing the envelope of ethical advertising. So do all those sellers on EBay that claim they are selling BU rolls of halves. It's like I said, unless you personally took it out of a bag straight from the mint, then it's been circulated. No arguing that point to me. That's my opinion and no one is going to change my mind on that one. It may have been in the bank vault for 50 years, but then again, they may have been circulated lightly 50 years ago before they were rolled. This person isn't saying you are going to find those coins in the rolls. He is stating what the Red Book values are. The fact that he or she did not mention the condition the book specifies is irrelevant.

BTW - He has another one wrong. A 74-D DDO going for $50. I'd like to get $50 for every one of mine. I could buy a new Minelab E-Trac. The last one of those that went for $50 was probably graded, certified, and slabbed. Then it probably was MS-67 or higher.

And as far as 350,000 new roll hunters every year - okay. Golden Gate Park is not your exclusive ground to metal detect either.

The only thing I see misleading about his ad is the FED roll statement. How many newbies come here asking about how people manage to get all those "Fed rolled halves"? And what usually happens - they get flamed because they called then Fed rolls. Gosh, maybe this guy or gal doesn't know any different.

 

[ArkieBassMan]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

Again go read his ad.. it's deceptive.. it says his rolls came from the "FED reserve not just local banks" but we all know that you had to go and get the coins from your local bank because the FED doesn't sell to you directly. Yes, we've all heard the term FED rolls before but he's claiming it as though he didn't just get them from his local bank which we all know that he did. He's using the symmantics to make his box sound special.

Any place that touts "top prices paid" for items and is not paying close to the competition is a deceptive and a scam in my opinion. "Everyday low prices".. no one believes that crap.. I tune that stuff out evertime I see it. I would never put that with anything I sell unless it was true. Apparently some of us have lower standards.

Haven't we also had previous posts on this forum complaining about these guys who dupe people with these auctions for unsearched halves? It's obvious that we can all do this but we don't. Why? Because we know it's a way to basically scam new collectors and we have the morals not to do that. I've thought about it too before in my ten years of CRHing but I don't. I'm sure many others that do boxes have thought about it but we don't.

Also his auction doesn't state that 1983-D "MS condition" coins go for $7.00 in his book. It just says those years. Yeah, why not put up MS70 prices while he's at it? Yeah quote MS69 prices for 1983-D halves.. LOL He states that the coins are circulated. He's making it sound like ANY 1983-D half dollar is worth $7.00 which is not true. No circulated 1983-D is worth $7.00 or else I'd be a rich man with all the 1983-D halves I've come across throughout the years. The whole description is misleading. Leaving out details to mislead new collectors. Put yourself in some new collector's shoes. You're taking advantage of new naive collectors. Does that make you feel good?

Also again, Ebay gets a lot more traffic than here. Obviously it's newbies that see his auctions and bid on them. That's the difference in my opinion. Ebay has a larger audience than here.

ONCE AGAIN, GO READ HIS AUCTION before you're going to stand up for him. I'm just tired of people immediately taking sides without looking at the facts. DO IT BEFORE HE CHANGES IT.

SF, I had his auction open in another window when I wrote my reply. I was staring "the facts" dead-in-the-eye. In fact I even went back and looked at it again just now to make sure I didn't miss something. You are WAY out of line in your attempt to put a bit of a cyber lynch mob together to "go after" this eBay seller.

What gives you the right to tell this guy what he can do with his rolls of half dollars? I understand that you disagree with what the seller is selling. You think it can do nothing but hurt CRH. Maybe you're correct, but that really is irrelevant. The seller probably could care less about CRH. If he did CRH at one time, or even if he still does, I'm sure he's making more money by selling the unopened rolls than he was by opening them. Bottom line is that you don't have the right to tell this guy what he can or can't do with his rolls of coins. They are his to do with as he wishes.

Before you start your "his ad is deceptive" rant, I don't see anything in there that is a lie. I have no doubt there are 1983D halves listed in his price guide for $7. Same for '74D DDO's @ $50. Thats all he claims - that his price guide has these coins listed for those amounts, which likely is true. And for the biggie about the coins came from The Fed...not entirely true, but not a complete fabrication like you make it out to be. The coin courier service works on behalf of The Fed, and all coins originated from The Fed, so I would contend that coins received from the courier is practically the same thing as coming from The Fed itself. Ask any bank employee where they get their boxes of coins from. I'd be shocked if over 90%+ of the time the answer is not, "From The Fed."

Let's get to the real issue SF. Do you really have a problem with his "deceptive" ad? You gonna patrol all of eBay (and the rest of the world) looking for deceptive advertising? If so you're gonna be pretty busy going by your definition of deceptive. I suspect maybe you don't like what he's doing because of where he's doing it. Too close to home? There have been sellers on eBay selling unopened "Fed" (couldn't resist) rolls of half dollars for years. Now suddenly you have a problem with this guy? It seems as though you're trying to get this guy shut down based on what he's selling and trying to use how he's selling it to get the job done. You're crying "fraud" and "deception" to form a lynch mob of sorts on this forum to help you. Maybe you're the one being a bit deceptive. I dunno for sure, but it sure seems that way IMO.

SF, you have every right to disagree with the guy selling rolls. You have every right to post on this forum that you disagree with it, and to ask everyone reading your posts not to do what this seller is doing. I'd back you up 100% on that. However, trying to get him shut down and recruiting others to help you do it is going too far. WAY too far IMO.

 

[SFBayArea]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

Again go read his ad.. it's deceptive.. it says his rolls came from the "FED reserve not just local banks" but we all know that you had to go and get the coins from your local bank because the FED doesn't sell to you directly. Yes, we've all heard the term FED rolls before but he's claiming it as though he didn't just get them from his local bank which we all know that he did. He's using the symmantics to make his box sound special.

Any place that touts "top prices paid" for items and is not paying close to the competition is a deceptive and a scam in my opinion. "Everyday low prices".. no one believes that crap.. I tune that stuff out evertime I see it. I would never put that with anything I sell unless it was true. Apparently some of us have lower standards.

Haven't we also had previous posts on this forum complaining about these guys who dupe people with these auctions for unsearched halves? It's obvious that we can all do this but we don't. Why? Because we know it's a way to basically scam new collectors and we have the morals not to do that. I've thought about it too before in my ten years of CRHing but I don't. I'm sure many others that do boxes have thought about it but we don't.

Also his auction doesn't state that 1983-D "MS condition" coins go for $7.00 in his book. It just says those years. Yeah, why not put up MS70 prices while he's at it? Yeah quote MS69 prices for 1983-D halves.. LOL He states that the coins are circulated. He's making it sound like ANY 1983-D half dollar is worth $7.00 which is not true. No circulated 1983-D is worth $7.00 or else I'd be a rich man with all the 1983-D halves I've come across throughout the years. The whole description is misleading. Leaving out details to mislead new collectors. Put yourself in some new collector's shoes. You're taking advantage of new naive collectors. Does that make you feel good?

Also again, Ebay gets a lot more traffic than here. Obviously it's newbies that see his auctions and bid on them. That's the difference in my opinion. Ebay has a larger audience than here.

ONCE AGAIN, GO READ HIS AUCTION before you're going to stand up for him. I'm just tired of people immediately taking sides without looking at the facts. DO IT BEFORE HE CHANGES IT.

SF, I had his auction open in another window when I wrote my reply. I was staring "the facts" dead-in-the-eye. In fact I even went back and looked at it again just now to make sure I didn't miss something. You are WAY out of line in your attempt to put a bit of a cyber lynch mob together to "go after" this eBay seller.

What gives you the right to tell this guy what he can do with his rolls of half dollars? I understand that you disagree with what the seller is selling. You think it can do nothing but hurt CRH. Maybe you're correct, but that really is irrelevant. The seller probably could care less about CRH. If he did CRH at one time, or even if he still does, I'm sure he's making more money by selling the unopened rolls than he was by opening them. Bottom line is that you don't have the right to tell this guy what he can or can't do with his rolls of coins. They are his to do with as he wishes.

Before you start your "his ad is deceptive" rant, I don't see anything in there that is a lie. I have no doubt there are 1983D halves listed in his price guide for $7. Same for '74D DDO's @ $50. Thats all he claims - that his price guide has these coins listed for those amounts, which likely is true. And for the biggie about the coins came from The Fed...not entirely true, but not a complete fabrication like you make it out to be. The coin courier service works on behalf of The Fed, and all coins originated from The Fed, so I would contend that coins received from the courier is practically the same thing as coming from The Fed itself. Ask any bank employee where they get their boxes of coins from. I'd be shocked if over 90%+ of the time the answer is not, "From The Fed."

Let's get to the real issue SF. Do you really have a problem with his "deceptive" ad? You gonna patrol all of eBay (and the rest of the world) looking for deceptive advertising? If so you're gonna be pretty busy going by your definition of deceptive. I suspect maybe you don't like what he's doing because of where he's doing it. Too close to home? There have been sellers on eBay selling unopened "Fed" (couldn't resist) rolls of half dollars for years. Now suddenly you have a problem with this guy? It seems as though you're trying to get this guy shut down based on what he's selling and trying to use how he's selling it to get the job done. You're crying "fraud" and "deception" to form a lynch mob of sorts on this forum to help you. Maybe you're the one being a bit deceptive. I dunno for sure, but it sure seems that way IMO.

SF, you have every right to disagree with the guy selling rolls. You have every right to post on this forum that you disagree with it, and to ask everyone reading your posts not to do what this seller is doing. I'd back you up 100% on that. However, trying to get him shut down and recruiting others to help you do it is going too far. WAY too far IMO.

DUDE, what part don't you get about the $7.00 for 1983-D half dollar? How many times do I have to repeat it. He doesn't mention that it only applies to MS prices. Again put yourself in the shoes of a new collector. You going to hold onto your worn 1983-D's? How much is a circulated 1983-D half dollar worth? His auction says that the coins are in circulated condition.

The seller is in WA, he's in no way close to me. I don't see where you get that.

Obviously this guy doesn't care about CRHing so that's why he's exploiting this or he's just that dumb that he doesn't realize what he's doing is bad for all of us CRHers.

The carrier services work for the banks.. different banks contract with different carriers.. ie Brinks, Loomis, Guarda.. etc. The banks pay for them to manage their inventories at their vault. The banks have their own local cash vault where they keep their money. If they have extra, the coins get sent back to the FED. You're trying to stretch it. No, carriers do not work directly for the FED only when coinage is short do they release new coins from their inventories. In fact, the carrier that delivers the coins to your bank is paid a flat rate from your Bank.. not the FED ..to deliver those coins to your local bank.

It's obvious that this guy got the box from his local bank unlike what he claims.

There's an element of low ballness to his guy. Yeah, there have been other unsearched roll sellers but they don't advertise in this low ball fashion. Had he just stated that they are unsearched circulated shotgun bank rolls with the possibility of finding silver, then fine but he's putting in other crap like 1983-D's being worth $7.00 and that he doesn't get his box from his local bank. Yeah, he can sell whatever he wants but don't be putting up misleading info. It's just not respected. I'm sure that there's plenty of snake oil sellers and some got rich off it (like people that sold Cocaine laced remedies in the 1800's for serious conditions) in this world... is it respectable? No

If you agree with what this guy is doing so much.. why don't you do it too and put up the same 1983-D halves for $7.00 on your auction? There are many CRHers that do halves out there including you and me.. why is it that we don't put the weekly rolls that we get for auction on Ebay? Because we don't want to stoop to this guy's level.

Once a CRHer is formed, there is nothing we can do about it and that's their right to CRH. However we can try to not form so many new CRHers by not promoting the hobby. This guy in my opinion is promoting the hobby. How is he not? He's openly promoting it on Ebay. I remember we've had posts where people don't like it when people put up CRHing videos on Youtube. People wanted to write the video authors to not post the CRH videos on Youtube. This is the same thing.

HEY, I HAVE SOME 1983-D HALVES IN CIRCULATED CONDITION.. WILL YOU BUY THEM FOR ME FOR $6.00 each? I'm giving you a discount.. why don't you buy them from me. Hey according to this guy's ad, they're worth $7.00.

 

[youfoundwhat]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

I live in the bay area! Were do you live? I do not want to search the same area you do!

 

[SFBayArea]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

I live in the bay area! Were do you live? I do not want to search the same area you do!

PM sent

 

[RP4L]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

How many of them become monster searchers? How many decide to do 15 to 20 boxes a week maybe one in your neighborhood?

Not a whole lot, I'd imagine. Most Americans barely even have $1,000 in savings. I seem to recall reading that less than 1% of the population owns a substantial amount of precious metals (excluding dental and jewelery). A good number of the ones that do own some don't understand why they're "investing" in PMs. They don't understand market fundamentals/monetary inflation. Every J6P suddenly decided to buy silver at $50/oz and got scared as hell when it started to level out. Now they're all convinced that it's in a bubble.

I'd be far more concerned about the eventual collapse of the US dollar and the government culling all coins.

 

[ArkieBassMan]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

DUDE, what part don't you get about the $7.00 for 1983-D half dollar? How many times do I have to repeat it. He doesn't mention that it only applies to MS prices. Again put yourself in the shoes of a new collector. You going to hold onto your worn 1983-D's? How much is a circulated 1983-D half dollar worth? His auction says that the coins are in circulated condition.

The seller is in WA, he's in no way close to me. I don't see where you get that.

There's an element of low ballness to his guy. Yeah, there have been other unsearched roll sellers but they don't advertise in this low ball fashion. Had he just stated that they are unsearched rolls with the possibility of finding silver, then fine but he's putting in other crap like 1983-D's being worth $7.00 and that he doesn't get his box from his local bank. Yeah, he can sell whatever he wants but don't be putting up misleading info. It's just not respected. I'm sure that there's plenty of snake oil sellers and some got rich off it (like people that sold Cocaine laced remedies in the 1800's for serious conditions) in this world... is it respectable? No

If you agree with this guy is doing so much.. why don't you do it too and put up the same 1983-D halves for $7.00 on your auction? There are many CRHers that do halves out there including you and me.. why is it that we don't put the weekly rolls that we get for auction on Ebay? Because we don't want to stoop to this guy's level.

HEY, I HAVE SOME 1983-D HALVES IN CIRCULATED CONDITION.. WILL YOU BUY THEM FOR ME FOR $6.00 each? I'm giving you a discount.. why don't you buy them from me. Hey according to this guy's ad, they're worth $7.00.

DUDE, how do you read, "This price guide has 1983D halves valued at $7" but hear, "Every single 1983D half can be sold for $7"? Thats 2 totally different statements. Nowhere does the seller guarantee (or even mention) that a 1983D half can be sold for $7. He simply stated that a certain named price guide has them valued at that amount. Its a selling tactic. Its not a false statement.

Most dealers and collectors scoff at "price guide" values anyway. Any collector that thinks that he can receive price guide values for every single coin in existence is in for a rude awakening. For anyone that could possibly believe in such...well the old axiom, "A fool and his money are soon parted" has probably always been true and always will be.

The reason I don't auction off my rolls is that I enjoy opening them myself. It has nothing to do with "not stooping to this guy's level." I don't see where this guy is at a level I would have to stoop to. I personally see absolutely nothing wrong with what he's doing or how he's doing it. While I would put more money in my pocket by auctioning them, the amount of money isn't enough for me to part with my weekly fun of opening boxes. Now, if I could make $100+ a box auctioning rolls, I would try to become the roll selling king of eBay.

As far as the 1983D's go, its the price guide that says they're worth $7 - not the seller. If you can't see that, then I have no idea how to explain it to you.

 

[SFBayArea]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

DUDE, what part don't you get about the $7.00 for 1983-D half dollar? How many times do I have to repeat it. He doesn't mention that it only applies to MS prices. Again put yourself in the shoes of a new collector. You going to hold onto your worn 1983-D's? How much is a circulated 1983-D half dollar worth? His auction says that the coins are in circulated condition.

The seller is in WA, he's in no way close to me. I don't see where you get that.

There's an element of low ballness to his guy. Yeah, there have been other unsearched roll sellers but they don't advertise in this low ball fashion. Had he just stated that they are unsearched rolls with the possibility of finding silver, then fine but he's putting in other crap like 1983-D's being worth $7.00 and that he doesn't get his box from his local bank. Yeah, he can sell whatever he wants but don't be putting up misleading info. It's just not respected. I'm sure that there's plenty of snake oil sellers and some got rich off it (like people that sold Cocaine laced remedies in the 1800's for serious conditions) in this world... is it respectable? No

If you agree with this guy is doing so much.. why don't you do it too and put up the same 1983-D halves for $7.00 on your auction? There are many CRHers that do halves out there including you and me.. why is it that we don't put the weekly rolls that we get for auction on Ebay? Because we don't want to stoop to this guy's level.

HEY, I HAVE SOME 1983-D HALVES IN CIRCULATED CONDITION.. WILL YOU BUY THEM FOR ME FOR $6.00 each? I'm giving you a discount.. why don't you buy them from me. Hey according to this guy's ad, they're worth $7.00.

DUDE, how do you read, "This price guide has 1983D halves valued at $7" but hear, "Every single 1983D half can be sold for $7"? Thats 2 totally different statements. Nowhere does the seller guarantee (or even mention) that a 1983D half can be sold for $7. He simply stated that a certain named price guide has them valued at that amount. Its a selling tactic. Its not a false statement.

Most dealers and collectors scoff at "price guide" values anyway. Any collector that thinks that he can receive price guide values for every single coin in existence is in for a rude awakening. For anyone that could possibly believe in such...well the old axiom, "A fool and his money are soon parted" has probably always been true and always will be.

The reason I don't auction off my rolls is that I enjoy opening them myself. It has nothing to do with "not stooping to this guy's level." I don't see where this guy is at a level I would have to stoop to. I personally see absolutely nothing wrong with what he's doing or how he's doing it. While I would put more money in my pocket by auctioning them, the amount of money isn't enough for me to part with my weekly fun of opening boxes. Now, if I could make $100+ a box auctioning rolls, I would try to become the roll selling king of eBay.

As far as the 1983D's go, its the price guide that says they're worth $7 - not the seller. If you can't see that, then I have no idea how to explain it to you.

You have to put yourself in the shoes of a new collector (which are the people buying his coins).. to a new collector, they could easily read it and think that the price guide states a 1983-D is worth $7 which is not true.. I told him in my e-mail to mention MS grades. Had he simply stated "Price Guides have Mint State 1983-D halves dollars at $7", that would be ok. That's certainly how I read it.. because I read that ad from the eyes of a potential buyer.

As I have stated, he can sell what he wants but I don't like the way he wrote his ad and also believe that he's promoting CRHing which is not good for all of us.

If you want to sell your unsearched rolls and want to search them too.. then why don't you weigh them. Any rolls under 224.7 grams have a minimal chance of having any silver. Of course that would be unscrupulous. Who knows what this guy does.

Yeah, all of us would be rich if we can sell all our boxes for 10% profit not just you.

 

[pronghorn]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

As I have stated, he can sell what he wants but I don't like the way he wrote his ad and also believe that he's promoting CRHing which is not good for all of us.

Come on, get real!
His ad in ebay currently has 233 views, it's right there on
the bottom of the ad.

Your thread here, in which you have posted 14 times basically
advertising CRH to anyone who reads this and doesn't
already know, has 813 views. Now multiple that by your
1300 plus posts on Tnet, and tell us again who is killing your
hobby!

 

[bigscoop]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

Ebay, and online sales in general, have had an adverse effect on a lot of markets, no reason to expect that it won't land in your hobby sooner or later as well. This is not a new problem, not at all. Just ask the millions of collectors out there who have watched the value of their collectible pieces drop into the toilet because the internet made them not quite so scarce anymore. In this day and age if you want it you can find it on the internet, and usually by the numbers and at a lower price then you can buy it locally. From a seller's standpoint, the internet provides them a world marketplace with a lot more traffic and much lower overhead then a street front location, not to mention the obvious convenience that it provides. In this day and age if you want top dollar for something it had better be rare, and unfortunately, because of the internet, rare isn't as nearly as rare as it use to be. If you couldn't see this coming then it's most likely because you weren't really paying attention and looking. Do I like it? NO! Is there a chance in Hel* that anyone is going to stop it? NO! Welcome to the world of internet buying and selling, the new leader in worldwide shopping. It's not only where America shops, but it's also the only place where the whole world buys and sells.

 

[SFBayArea]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

How many of them become monster searchers? How many decide to do 15 to 20 boxes a week maybe one in your neighborhood?

Not a whole lot, I'd imagine. Most Americans barely even have $1,000 in savings. I seem to recall reading that less than 1% of the population owns a substantial amount of precious metals (excluding dental and jewelery). A good number of the ones that do own some don't understand why they're "investing" in PMs. They don't understand market fundamentals/monetary inflation. Every J6P suddenly decided to buy silver at $50/oz and got scared as hell when it started to level out. Now they're all convinced that it's in a bubble.

I'd be far more concerned about the eventual collapse of the US dollar and the government culling all coins.

It's funny.. when I watched the Suzy Orman show on CNBC, she has these callers call up about whether they can afford to buy something new. Suzy looks at their finances and gives them an answer. She tells everyone that you have to have at a minimum $80 K in emergency money on hand before buying something lavish along with other debts. The thing is I don't know many people that have $80 K cash on hand. These people that call in and seem really wealthy for their age.. are just rubbing it in.

If the dollar goes down in an orderly fashion, that would actually be good for our economy. Countries like China manipulate their currency so that manufacturing jobs go over there. If the dollar is worth less, it could bring many jobs back home and help our exports.. but unfortunately companies will just go to other 3rd world countries to make their goods. There is no real reason for having a strong dollar.. only out of pride I suppose. All other countries want to debase their currency.

 

[SFBayArea]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

As I have stated, he can sell what he wants but I don't like the way he wrote his ad and also believe that he's promoting CRHing which is not good for all of us.

Come on, get real!
His ad in ebay currently has 233 views, it's right there on
the bottom of the ad.

Your thread here, in which you have posted 14 times basically
advertising CRH to anyone who reads this and doesn't
already know, has 813 views. Now multiple that by your
1300 plus posts on Tnet, and tell us again who is killing your
hobby!

Yeah but he's also got other auctions.. multiple auctions. He started doing this in May.

This forum is mostly made of ethusiasts for this hobby or metal detecting. Most people are already CRHers here not saying none are new lurkers. However most people drawn to his auctions are new collectors. The only reason I looked at his is because I was looking at 40%er silver prices for rolls on Ebay and his auction was one that popped up in the search. I thought that I might as well look at it and that's what got me fired up about his advertising and his wholesale selling of CRHing. I have seen unsearched roll auctions before multiple listings from this guy had influenced me to look at it.

 

[hombre_de_plata_flaco]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

Ebay, and online sales in general, have had an adverse effect on a lot of markets, no reason to expect that it won't land in your hobby sooner or later as well. This is not a new problem, not at all. Just ask the millions of collectors out there who have watched the value of their collectible pieces drop into the toilet because the internet made them not quite so scarce anymore. In this day and age if you want it you can find it on the internet, and usually by the numbers and at a lower price then you can buy it locally. From a seller's standpoint, the internet provides them a world marketplace with a lot more traffic and much lower overhead then a street front location, not to mention the obvious convenience that it provides. In this day and age if you want top dollar for something it had better be rare, and unfortunately, because of the internet, rare isn't as nearly as rare as it use to be. If you couldn't see this coming then it's most likely because you weren't really paying attention and looking. Do I like it? NO! Is there a chance in Hel* that anyone is going to stop it? NO! Welcome to the world of internet buying and selling, the new leader in worldwide shopping. It's not only where America shops, but it's also the only place where the whole world buys and sells.

This man knows how things operate. The only advantage to having a storefront location now is not having to pack things up and burn gas back and forth to the post office. That's it...

 

[pronghorn]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

However most people drawn to his auctions are new collectors.

You don't know that! That might be your guess but you
can't state that as a fact!

I posted here once what I found CRHing and have never
done it again, it was easy to see that advertising this
hobby will kill it. Yet everyday you and others expose
it to way more people than those few hundred that
read this guys ad's on ebay.

I would guess that very few people who read his ads
or buy his coins go on to become serious CRHunters.
He currently has 37 auctions listed, 12 are for rolls.
He currently has 1 bid on 1 auction and it is not an
auction for rolls.

I would guess that this section (CRH) of this
forum has coaxed thousands, like it did me, to become
serious about this hobby. Probably tens of thousands!

Come on, 19,000 topics, 150,000 posts here,
and you want to shut down one guy on ebay?
You need to let it go and get back to CRHing!

 

[jim4silver]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

How many of them become monster searchers? How many decide to do 15 to 20 boxes a week maybe one in your neighborhood?

Not a whole lot, I'd imagine. Most Americans barely even have $1,000 in savings. I seem to recall reading that less than 1% of the population owns a substantial amount of precious metals (excluding dental and jewelery). A good number of the ones that do own some don't understand why they're "investing" in PMs. They don't understand market fundamentals/monetary inflation. Every J6P suddenly decided to buy silver at $50/oz and got scared as hell when it started to level out. Now they're all convinced that it's in a bubble.

I'd be far more concerned about the eventual collapse of the US dollar and the government culling all coins.

If the dollar goes down in an orderly fashion, that would actually be good for our economy. Countries like China manipulate their currency so that manufacturing jobs go over there. If the dollar is worth less, it could bring many jobs back home and help our exports.. but unfortunately companies will just go to other 3rd world countries to make their goods. There is no real reason for having a strong dollar.. only out of pride I suppose. All other countries want to debase their currency.

Sorry SFBay, I see you have kind of been the whipping boy on this thread, but the above paragraph is completely erroneous.

The reason big companies left the US to operate overseas is because many other countries do not have stringent pollution laws nor other strict business regulations like the US has (child labor laws, etc) and the biggie is the locals there are willing to work for FAR less $$$$ than their US counterparts who demand higher pay and other benefits that cost the company money it won't have to spend in the foreign land. Other countries also offer higher educated workers who work for less in some cases (like India, etc.). Also operating overseas can have better tax consequences for the company.

Bottom line is the US is probably not going to be the leader in the 21st century economically speaking, just like England owned the 19th century and the US owned the 20th century, someone new on the block is going to own the 21st century most likely. Will it be China, India, etc?, nobody knows for sure yet, but I doubt it will be us. Further, China has actually raised its interest rate lately to try and curb inflation. A higher interest rate strengthens a currency.

The dollar is not the real issue either per se, but our huge budget deficits each year and national debt are the issues, neither which can ever be fixed in our lifetimes in my humble opinion. Rising unemployment is also a huge issue here (which ties in with my above comments about companies going overseas to save $$$$ on wages, taxes and government regulations), thus leading to more joblessness here. It will be interesting to see how everything unfolds over the next decade that is for sure.

PS I am not glad or happy things have turned out this way in the world, I am just calling it like I see it in my own opinion.

Jim

 

[bigscoop]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

Ebay, and online sales in general, have had an adverse effect on a lot of markets, no reason to expect that it won't land in your hobby sooner or later as well. This is not a new problem, not at all. Just ask the millions of collectors out there who have watched the value of their collectible pieces drop into the toilet because the internet made them not quite so scarce anymore. In this day and age if you want it you can find it on the internet, and usually by the numbers and at a lower price then you can buy it locally. From a seller's standpoint, the internet provides them a world marketplace with a lot more traffic and much lower overhead then a street front location, not to mention the obvious convenience that it provides. In this day and age if you want top dollar for something it had better be rare, and unfortunately, because of the internet, rare isn't as nearly as rare as it use to be. If you couldn't see this coming then it's most likely because you weren't really paying attention and looking. Do I like it? NO! Is there a chance in Hel* that anyone is going to stop it? NO! Welcome to the world of internet buying and selling, the new leader in worldwide shopping. It's not only where America shops, but it's also the only place where the whole world buys and sells.

This man knows how things operate. The only advantage to having a storefront location now is not having to pack things up and burn gas back and forth to the post office. That's it...

I had a storefront antiques and collectibles shop for a while, and I dealt in just about anything and everything, so I got to watch a lot of markets go down the tubes first hand on account of the interent. Finding good deals even became a lot harder because people could find out what things were worth by simply looking online and doing a bit of research for themselves. I think it's effected just about every sells market there is and I fully expect there will come the day when "going shopping" for most anything will pretty much be a thing of the past all together. Some will win, of course, mostly the bigger guys, but most of the little guys will continue to lose as the profit margins continue to decline, with perhaps the exception of a few "true specialty areas". Just the way I've seen it progressing.

 

[Bentfork]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

As I have stated, he can sell what he wants but I don't like the way he wrote his ad and also believe that he's promoting CRHing which is not good for all of us.

I know the more folks are doing it the fewer finds there will be. But if I get splattered on the highway tomorrow I won't be taking it with me. If I had all the silver in the world it wouldn't do me any good once I'm gone.

So how did you happen upon coin roll hunting? Did someone tell you about it. Did you read about it? Or did you just happen to get the idea yourself? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how to cull silver from circulation. I could care less if a person goes through $500,000 a day. But, when someone does abuse buying and dumping at the banks I buy and dump at - so that I'm now getting tapped for fees because of them, then I get hacked off. I don't abuse the banks and I don't appreciate people that do - then it is ruining the hobby for everyone.

I would like to mention a comment you made about CRH and finds.

This guy in my opinion is just killing it for our this hobby.. openly broadcasting the idea of CRHing on Ebay... great just let everyone know.. and eventually everyone figure out they can get them for face value.

Isn't that the idea we all do it - to get silver at face value?