Lets all rally to convince this guy to stop

[SFBayArea]

Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

This guy in my opinion is just killing it for our this hobby.. openly broadcasting the idea of CRHing on Ebay... great just let everyone know.. and eventually everyone figure out they can get them for face value.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300570968905&ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:US:1123

I sent this guy a message to ask him to please stop and re-evaluate his logic on this. He's shooting himself in the foot or our feet too. Maybe if other people here can send him a message, he'll stop too. I don't have a problem with individual coins for auction or maybe even a few rolls every so often but massive wholesale rolls for sale is just down right bad for the hobby. Like I've said, if everyone did this, it would over real quick.

It's kinda of scam in a way since he doesn't note that the majority of the rolls will not have silver. Praying on unknowing people and giving them ideas of CRHing.

I'm just asking other TNet members here to send him a polite message to convince him to stop this practice. It's just bad for the hobby long term. It's also bad for people who want to sell individual pieces on Feebay because it gives buyers ideas on where to get them instead. We don't need to be rude but a well written message to him and hopefully from enough people will get him to stop.

 

[hombre_de_plata_flaco]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

I had a storefront antiques and collectibles shop for a while, and I dealt in just about anything and everything, so I got to watch a lot of markets go down the tubes first hand on account of the interent. Finding good deals even became a lot harder because people could find out what things were worth by simply looking online and doing a bit of research for themselves. I think it's effected just about every sells market there is and I fully expect there will come the day when "going shopping" for most anything will pretty much be a thing of the past all together. Some will win, of course, mostly the bigger guys, but most of the little guys will continue to lose as the profit margins continue to decline, with perhaps the exception of a few "true specialty areas". Just the way I've seen it progressing.

I just signed a 6 month lease on 100 square feet at a local antique mall. At first I thought the rent was a little steep, but after calculating all the ebay & paypal fees - plus gas and packing materials I think it may be pretty even. One thing I am enjoying is that I can just drop the stuff there in my booth or display cases with a price tag and leave it. With ebay I feel like I am constantly tied to my computer. Plus the customer can pick up and examine what it is they are purchasing so I don't have to worry about photographing and describing every little detail or someone asking for a partial refund because there is a 1/8" seam split in the cover of a 50 year old vinyl record I overlooked. I can always pull an item out of the booth and put it on feebay if I need to, but after the first month the stuff seems to be doing pretty well at or near ebay prices. I always check the completed listings before I set an item out and try to put an "average" price on the item so it will move.

 

[RP4L]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

How many of them become monster searchers? How many decide to do 15 to 20 boxes a week maybe one in your neighborhood?

Not a whole lot, I'd imagine. Most Americans barely even have $1,000 in savings. I seem to recall reading that less than 1% of the population owns a substantial amount of precious metals (excluding dental and jewelery). A good number of the ones that do own some don't understand why they're "investing" in PMs. They don't understand market fundamentals/monetary inflation. Every J6P suddenly decided to buy silver at $50/oz and got scared as hell when it started to level out. Now they're all convinced that it's in a bubble.

I'd be far more concerned about the eventual collapse of the US dollar and the government culling all coins.

If the dollar goes down in an orderly fashion, that would actually be good for our economy. Countries like China manipulate their currency so that manufacturing jobs go over there. If the dollar is worth less, it could bring many jobs back home and help our exports.. but unfortunately companies will just go to other 3rd world countries to make their goods. There is no real reason for having a strong dollar.. only out of pride I suppose. All other countries want to debase their currency.

Not to change the subject, but there's a pretty concentrated effort from very powerful people and organizations to replace the dollar. The dollar definitely won't be the reserve currency in 5 years, that much I can say for sure.

The dollar is not the real issue either per se, but our huge budget deficits each year and national debt are the issues, neither which can ever be fixed in our lifetimes in my humble opinion.

The two go hand in hand. It was certainly a huge contributing factor as to why QE2 took place.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

Technically, I guess, all "new" rolls come from the Fed.

Maybe he's got a great bank who will order them for him?

I do know where he got the $7.00 for the 1983 D - he's following "cointrackers.com"

http://cointrackers.com/coins/649/1983-d-kennedy-half-dollar/



Beth

 

[SFBayArea]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

Technically, I guess, all "new" rolls come from the Fed.

Maybe he's got a great bank who will order them for him?

I do know where he got the $7.00 for the 1983 D - he's following "cointrackers.com"

http://cointrackers.com/coins/649/1983-d-kennedy-half-dollar/



Beth

WOW.. I'm shocked.. don't know who quote up those prices. A worn piece is worth $6? If he used that site and quoted that site than I would say that I am wrong. I guess I should put up an auction for some and use that link.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

I agree!!

Someone pointed out that site to me about a year ago - give or take, when I was looking to get a specific coin. (that I thought he had overpriced) That's how I even knew it existed.

Beth

 

[ArkieBassMan]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

WOW.. I'm shocked.. don't know who quote up those prices. A worn piece is worth $6? If he used that site and quoted that site than I would say that I am wrong. I guess I should put up an auction for some and use that link.

Let us know how that works out. If your "easily misled/new collectors" theory is correct, you should be able to make a killing.

 

[SFBayArea]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

WOW.. I'm shocked.. don't know who quote up those prices. A worn piece is worth $6? If he used that site and quoted that site than I would say that I am wrong. I guess I should put up an auction for some and use that link.

Let us know how that works out. If your "easily misled/new collectors" theory is correct, you should be able to make a killing.

At some point, I will put up a single AU condition 1983-D half dollar for sale.. I'll start the auction low but leave up the link about it being worth $6.00 and see if people will actually do it so it would be completely up to bidders to bid it up if they want. Just an experiment.. I'm not planning to exploit it wholesale but a one time experiment just to see if people actually fall for the crap. The only thing is that I would be afraid the buyer realizes he can't sell it for $6.00 and give me a negative feedback.

 

[SFBayArea]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

How many of them become monster searchers? How many decide to do 15 to 20 boxes a week maybe one in your neighborhood?

Not a whole lot, I'd imagine. Most Americans barely even have $1,000 in savings. I seem to recall reading that less than 1% of the population owns a substantial amount of precious metals (excluding dental and jewelery). A good number of the ones that do own some don't understand why they're "investing" in PMs. They don't understand market fundamentals/monetary inflation. Every J6P suddenly decided to buy silver at $50/oz and got scared as hell when it started to level out. Now they're all convinced that it's in a bubble.

I'd be far more concerned about the eventual collapse of the US dollar and the government culling all coins.

If the dollar goes down in an orderly fashion, that would actually be good for our economy. Countries like China manipulate their currency so that manufacturing jobs go over there. If the dollar is worth less, it could bring many jobs back home and help our exports.. but unfortunately companies will just go to other 3rd world countries to make their goods. There is no real reason for having a strong dollar.. only out of pride I suppose. All other countries want to debase their currency.

Sorry SFBay, I see you have kind of been the whipping boy on this thread, but the above paragraph is completely erroneous.

The reason big companies left the US to operate overseas is because many other countries do not have stringent pollution laws nor other strict business regulations like the US has (child labor laws, etc) and the biggie is the locals there are willing to work for FAR less $$$$ than their US counterparts who demand higher pay and other benefits that cost the company money it won't have to spend in the foreign land. Other countries also offer higher educated workers who work for less in some cases (like India, etc.). Also operating overseas can have better tax consequences for the company.

Bottom line is the US is probably not going to be the leader in the 21st century economically speaking, just like England owned the 19th century and the US owned the 20th century, someone new on the block is going to own the 21st century most likely. Will it be China, India, etc?, nobody knows for sure yet, but I doubt it will be us. Further, China has actually raised its interest rate lately to try and curb inflation. A higher interest rate strengthens a currency.

The dollar is not the real issue either per se, but our huge budget deficits each year and national debt are the issues, neither which can ever be fixed in our lifetimes in my humble opinion. Rising unemployment is also a huge issue here (which ties in with my above comments about companies going overseas to save $$$$ on wages, taxes and government regulations), thus leading to more joblessness here. It will be interesting to see how everything unfolds over the next decade that is for sure.

PS I am not glad or happy things have turned out this way in the world, I am just calling it like I see it in my own opinion.

Jim

The outsourcing of jobs partial has to do with laws here in the U.S but also much of it due to China too. China does not have the work laws we do. They run sweat shops where people live where they work and work on average a lot more hours than people do here.. The average worker there makes $5,000/year. No one can compete with that. Even if we cut corporate taxes to zero, it will still be more profitable to have manufacturing overseas.

It is true however that China has kept it's currency from increasing versus the dollar. There is a reason why we cannot buy Chinese Yuan on the FOREX exchange. If they weren't manipulating it, they would allow market prices to dictate their currency's worth. They manipulate it to prop up their economy at our expense. They let it rise slowly to appease Washington but not quickly enough to make a difference.

My aunt runs a company and says that now since China has risen, companies are now going to places like Vietnam to manufacture stuff because it's even cheaper than China. Think about it if you were a CEO and all you cared about was answering to share holders, of course you would try to get stuff made as cheap as possible because you just care about profits. Who knows that the next third world country to take US jobs will be?

I will say that China is very shrewed about it and give them credit for that. They put a lot of emphasis on education and schooling unlike us. They invest in education so that not only will they take our outsourced manufacturing jobs but also engineering jobs as well. I think our country is doing the wrong thing in cutting education.

Just end the wars abroad. Wars completely ruin countries. It's been like that since the beginning of time. The fall of the Soviet Union was partially due to the amount of money spent in Afghanistan. That was their vietnam.

Also why are we no longer on the gold standard? Nixon ended it since Vietnam was too expensive. So they just print money to pay for costly wars. If we go to war, be smart about it.. use specialized units to cut off the head of the snake instead of putting 100,000 boots on the ground.

 

[jim4silver]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

Just end the wars abroad. Wars completely ruin countries. It's been like that since the beginning of time. The fall of the Soviet Union was partially due to the amount of money spent in Afghanistan. That was their vietnam.

I agree.

Also why are we no longer on the gold standard? Nixon ended it since Vietnam was too expensive. So they just print money to pay for costly wars. If we go to war, be smart about it.. use specialized units to cut off the head of the snake instead of putting 100,000 boots on the ground.

The "gold standard" Nixon ended was only helping foreign countries since it allowed them to demand gold from us for debts owed. The "gold standard" that benefited us existed until 1933 when Roosevelt did what he did that helped start the devaluing of the US dollar.

All above is just my opinion.

Jim

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

As of January of this year, you actually can get Chinese yuan. Their currency, however, is purposely devalued by about 40% last time I looked it up.

We should still have a gold standard - as it is, our dollars are ONLY backed by paper - they are - constitutionally, supposed to be valued to actual wealth - gold. (as in: coin). The Federal Reserve notes etc., are worth what they are printed on. Our dollar is only as good as our country's wealth. When we changed the gold standard, the government technically took over everything we all own. That is what they use to back dollars now - and the less we own and produce, the less our dollar is worth.

If we didn't have the gold to pay, we shouldn't be issuing the dollars. Considering how environmentalist groups have gotten so much mining stopped (remember, the "little miner" used to be important), and they have made what mining is done SOOOOO expensive, it is not nearly as competitive to mine here - just like every other thing we used to produce. Make it so expensive to make that it gets outsourced.

Its time to get our manufacturing back - we cannot afford to be a "service" country. We need farming, and mining, and all those other shops where our parents (and some of us) worked for so many years.

While we cannot afford to be isolationists (we really do need other countries to buy our goods), we need a level playing field. I believe in tariffs, especially since WE PAY tariffs. Any US company that goes overseas should have to pay a premium to ship the goods back to this country. Just because they keep a few thousand employees here is a drop in the bucket. They keep their "home offices" in the US and ship out actual labor.
Give the folks who keep manufacturing here a break, and penalize any who outsource it.

Its going to get worse - just look at Wisconsin and some of the other states - they are in the process of taking away even bargaining rights - this country is in full reverse.

Wars, by the way - DO make money - they make money for fuel, weapons makers, plane makers, tool and die folks, and all those others that supply our extra needs during combat - like helmets, rifles, shells, mortars, vests, etc. They used to have a name for that - they called it "the machinery" which is a term started in WW1 - its the fuel that turns the gears that stimulate the wealth. Unfortunately, we are even outsourcing the things we need for war - how smart is that??/

Beth

 

[jim4silver]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

Its going to get worse - just look at Wisconsin and some of the other states - they are in the process of taking away even bargaining rights - this country is in full reverse.
Beth

The Wisconsin issue deals with "bargaining rights" for GOVERNMENT employees--not private companies. Nothing in the law changed the right of private company employees via unions, etc. Some say that gov employees work for the taxpayers and should not be able to hold a gov agency "hostage" by striking, etc. Lots of misinformation going around about this issue.

Further, it has been said that what led many companies overseas is because of all the unions here demanding more for US employees via wages and benefits, etc. I am not saying I agree with this, but it is something often said. The foreign folks are willing to work for less and don't demand as much, thus the businesses are gonna make more $$$$ using them instead of US workers.

I personally don't have a problem at all with tariffs in some circumstances since it does level the playing field a bit.

Jim

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

Bargaining rights for public employees is just the beginning. It sets a precedent, imo. The precedence is that you don't get to even talk about what you earn. Power to the employers. (you don't think that the taxpayers get to say who works for whom when and for how much, do you?)

Plus, you are missing a big part of the puzzle - it's being tried for ALL unions in Wisconsin-and not just Wisconsin - but Ohio, also. We are talking layoffs, pension funds disappearing, and much more.

And then, they came for me.........................................


There has to be some way to level the playing field with industry - there has to be a method to make our companies not only profitable, but make the overseas labor LESS profitable.

We can't say tax breaks, because most of the big corporations don't pay taxes now. So - something like tariffs - or taxes on anything made overseas and sold here, would be a good starting point, imo.

Beth

 

[tgcougar]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

WOW.. I'm shocked.. don't know who quote up those prices. A worn piece is worth $6? If he used that site and quoted that site than I would say that I am wrong. I guess I should put up an auction for some and use that link.

Let us know how that works out. If your "easily misled/new collectors" theory is correct, you should be able to make a killing.

At some point, I will put up a single AU condition 1983-D half dollar for sale.. I'll start the auction low but leave up the link about it being worth $6.00 and see if people will actually do it so it would be completely up to bidders to bid it up if they want. Just an experiment.. I'm not planning to exploit it wholesale but a one time experiment just to see if people actually fall for the crap. The only thing is that I would be afraid the buyer realizes he can't sell it for $6.00 and give me a negative feedback.

Dude, you live in the land of legal pot. Reeellllaaaxxxxxxxx, my friend.

 

[hombre_de_plata_flaco]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

Off topic but going after teachers unions is BS...

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

Back on topic,


If you want to try and sell one on Ebay - just tell the potential buyer that you will refund if not 100% satisfied. If the buyer gets ticked, just refund his money with a smile - that should keep your feedback positive.

Beth

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

One more thing, I forgot...........

Have you ever looked at the prices they pay on the television auction coin deals? At least 3 times the real values. And, since they have continued to do it for several years, people must be buying them.


Beth

 

[SFBayArea]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

Back on topic,


If you want to try and sell one on Ebay - just tell the potential buyer that you will refund if not 100% satisfied. If the buyer gets ticked, just refund his money with a smile - that should keep your feedback positive.

Beth

I agree.. if I sold one for $6.00... I would include a bonus coin to make them happy like a free S-mint wheat cent. Just would feel guilty about using some lame link to pump up prices. Classic pump and dump.


Wars may make money for certain companies like defense contractors. However, who ends up paying for the wars? The taxpayers. In the victory of War World 2, we were the number one manufacturing force back then. When Europe had to rebuild afterwards, our country profited from the amount of manufacturing that took place. Vietnam war costed us a ton of money, cold war Reagan's Star Wars programs costed us money, Iraq & Afghanistan costed us money.

However now with increased education and skilled labor in developing countries which China & India know are the their ticket to prosperity and with their larger populations, they have become the world's manufacturer just like how people complain that the U.S. is the world's policeman which we don't need to be. It's a shame that our country is going backwards by cutting education.

Also, I don't see any on TV auctions here.. only HSN shows

 

[maipenrai]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

Thanks Beth, for your down to earth post, always enjoy reading them, no matter what the subject.

 

[SFBayArea]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

Just end the wars abroad. Wars completely ruin countries. It's been like that since the beginning of time. The fall of the Soviet Union was partially due to the amount of money spent in Afghanistan. That was their vietnam.

I agree.

Also why are we no longer on the gold standard? Nixon ended it since Vietnam was too expensive. So they just print money to pay for costly wars. If we go to war, be smart about it.. use specialized units to cut off the head of the snake instead of putting 100,000 boots on the ground.

The "gold standard" Nixon ended was only helping foreign countries since it allowed them to demand gold from us for debts owed. The "gold standard" that benefited us existed until 1933 when Roosevelt did what he did that helped start the devaluing of the US dollar.

All above is just my opinion.

Jim

From Wikipedia on the Gold Standard:

"Post-war international gold-dollar standard (1946–1971)Main article: Bretton Woods system
After the Second World War, a system similar to a Gold Standard and sometimes described as a "gold exchange standard" was established by the Bretton Woods Agreements. Under this system, many countries fixed their exchange rates relative to the U.S. dollar. The U.S. promised to fix the price of gold at approximately $35 per ounce. Implicitly, then, all currencies pegged to the dollar also had a fixed value in terms of gold.[1] Under the administration of the French President Charles de Gaulle up to 1970, France reduced its dollar reserves, trading them for gold from the U.S. government, thereby reducing U.S. economic influence abroad. This, along with the fiscal strain of federal expenditures for the Vietnam War and persistent balance of payments deficits, led President Richard Nixon to end the direct convertibility of the dollar to gold on August 15th 1971, resulting in the system's breakdown (the "Nixon Shock")."

Hmm.. Apparently Vietnam expenses had something to do with ending the Gold Standard and led us to print money. We could benefit from wars if we gained something later from it like oil.. minerals.. land.. etc. However in the cases of Vietnam, Iraq & Afghanistan.. those were wars of attrition where we gained little. We had an opportunity to recoup some costs from Iraq's oil fields yet many of those oil contracts fell into the hands of Chinese companies. I blame our politicians for that one. Although I am against the war in Iraq, at this point you have to recoup some of the costs somehow.

As far as unions go.. unions have been incorporated in our country for decades even much before our economic downturn. Why is it now that they are being blamed? Special interests with large corp. dollars have led to a media blitz to led people to believe that the unions are to blame for our country's problems. For some reason, I noticed that if someone keeps saying certain beliefs over an over again, some people start to believe it.

Unions or not, we still cannot compete with countries like China who manipulate currency for their gain. Again the average worker in China makes $5000/year. If I worked minimum wage job here for $8/hr for a year with no benefits I would make $15,000/year which is still 3 times as much as a Chinese factory worker. Chinese factory workers also work 50-60 hours/week for that much money while at many times sleeping where they work. Would you like conditions to return to 1800's working conditions? Obviously the only people that would be happy with that are the big corporate CEO's and their shareholders. This issue has been around since the begining of time .. the employee vs. the employer. Don't get me wrong.. some unions have ruined it for others with their extreme policies however one cannot blame our country's current economic problems on unions.

I wouldn't say that the Chinese are more than happy with those wages and those working conditions but it's a reflection of how the exchange rate is screwed up. Our dollars go a lot further over there. A weaker dollar would not hurt in my opinion.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Re: Let's all rally to convince this guy to stop

Correction: I meant the HSN shows. Some times, here, on the shopping network channels, they will do an auction-type sale - with a reserve, of course.


Beth