Lost Zimmerman Ship of Gold

[doc-d]

How can they expect you to get better when there are no nurses to chase?

 

[Crow]

Dam you both....I have been dreaming of nurses all day today

But I will get back on topic.

Captain Franz Dagobert Johannes von Rintelen used an Alias to enter the United States on a false Swiss passport in the name of Emil Victor. Gasche. What he is listed as Shipping merchant. He came to America via Bergen Norway on 25th March 1915

Here is his name shipping manifest below. Please note I shrunk the document to size limitations.



It was interesting to note he is listed as a Shipping Merchant?

To be continued

Crow

 

[Crow]

Apologies once again some of the files I have is so big that I have reduced in size.

Here is conformation of Captain Franz Dagobert Johannes von Rintelen alias Emil Victor. Gasche leaving America. lured by a phony message sent to him in German code from the British secret service. records of this can be found at Kew in England Naval Intelligence one of predecessor agency before MI5. You can also finds Document via the CIA who inherited the early united states intelligence service records of its Predecessor.



From these two documents you can get a pretty good time frame of his espionage operations in the United States and by the amount of his activities it was a very busy one. So we have a date range from 25th of March 1915 and April 1917?

To be cont..

Crow

 

[Crow]

One question begs to be asked Was any of these German vessels this mystery alleged shipwreck?

Here is complete list of German vessels interned at San Rosalia

The fate of each vessel is accounted for....


Hans 3102/04 became Mary Dollar Broken Up 1948
Kurt 3109/04 became Dreadnaught then Moshulu
Dalbek 2595/92 became Monongahela, lost 1943.
Ottawa 2668/88 became Muscoota Broken Up 1942
Adolph Vinnen 1862/92 became Chillicothe, hulked 1927
Orotava 3014/01 became James Dollar
Egon 3090/02 became Janet Dollar
Walkure 3239/02 became William Dollar sank 1936
Schurbek 2409/02 became Joseph Dollar 1929 sold to Chinese
Adolf Vinnen 3537/92 became Mae Dollar Broken Up 1971
Helwig Vinnen 3282/91 became Allen Dollar sank 1927
Reinbek 2833/89 became Robert Dollar? Broken Up 1929
Thielbek 2846/93 became David Dollar Sunk 1929
Steinbek 2201/91 became Arapahoe then Star of Falkland Wrecked 1928
wandsbek 2193/94 wrecked lizzard island UK 1923
Hermes 340/14 became USS Hermes then USS Lanikai sank 1947.

The answer in short is No. end of story not quite...

Most of the vessels were at sea on the out break of war in July 1914. However there is one vessel that....Sailed in early 1915 with no cargo, just in Ball-est halfway around the world from its home port? It could not come to collect ore from the Copper mine at San Rosila because the mine was owned by the French?

To be continued.

Crow

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Crow, my informant specifically mentioned a smaller screw driven ship >>>>>and it would have to been lost around 1917 or 1918.

There is no reason for any business to be carried by Gold bars, especially that size, since any commercial transaction could be carried on with wired Bank credit.

Is there any chance that you could tap the port of Guaymas, for a SS ship being in the port about that time and leaving about the time of the Zimmerman scandal ?

If we can identify the gold ship I.ll buy you a nurse

Don Jose de La Mancah ( entering a side line of business, nurses )

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hi again Crow, never heard of business as usual between warring countries ??

In in42 we found American instruments in Jap aircraft, made in 42 by American company. When questioned we were told "You have nice rubber tires on your aircraft no ?

There is always a shadowy fringe doing business as usual .

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Crow: It occurs to me that the ship left Guaymas to escape looming internment after the Zimmerman affair, in which case it would not be listed as an one of the ships.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[doc-d]

Senor Don Jose, it is those wealthy who profit off both sides, supplying what is needed to each, ensuring great profits…….and as you mention, nothing is said, nothing is done…….
Vaya con Dios

 

[Crow]

Hello Doc-d, Don Jose and others.

Well ya better get that nurse ready...

I might indeed have a name of a vessel?

I suspect the alleged shipwreck was not German ship but a Mexican one? It may of indeed been carrying German Gold? But I will elaborate further on that later. Another factor that the United States navy had ships anchored off the main ports of Mexico since 1913. They were being used as patrol boat tenders. There was various ships present some are below but please note there was others.

The USS Iris was anchored off Guaymas from December 1915 - May 1916



The Uss Vicksburg took over 16 of April 1917 - July 1918



I do have more things to show in regards to this story.

However I have to prepare a presentation for a lecture in few days time. Another story.

Crow

 

[Deleted member 54237]

Tramp, Buy Crow a nurse?! The old geezer has to many already. Just send him the the Philippine Islands he can have all the nurses he wants for free. He'll have to buy his own viagra and rum though....lol

Crow, my informant specifically mentioned a smaller screw driven ship >>>>>and it would have to been lost around 1917 or 1918.

There is no reason for any business to be carried by Gold bars, especially that size, since any commercial transaction could be carried on with wired Bank credit.

Is there any chance that you could tap the port of Guaymas, for a SS ship being in the port about that time and leaving about the time of the Zimmerman scandal ?

If we can identify the gold ship I.ll buy you a nurse

Don Jose de La Mancah ( entering a side line of business, nurses )

 

[Crow]

Hello embrym as long it is not the way Hardluck got one?

Crow

 

[Deleted member 54237]

Hello embrym as long it is not the way Hardluck got one?

Crow

No no, not that way. I mean only good thoughts for you my friend.

 

[Crow]

Ah so ya know the story of How Hardluck got his Philippine nurse?


Crow

 

[Deleted member 54237]

Ah so ya know the story of How Hardluck got his Philippine nurse?


Crow

Yes, one day i was reading one of Amy's(Corp) stories and decided to ask her to do some research for me on Mindanao. She stated when she had time she would look into it. Next thing i know she produces the story of the "Valley of Death" here on Mindanao. We all chimed in and from my PM's with her I was introduced to Hardluck on another website. Harluck exchanged a few stories with me about his travels here in the Philippines and one of them was his experience with the nurses I believe that was around 1985 if my memory serves me.

My interest however is Mindanao and he did not share/have any information for me down on this island concerning the WW2 treasure.

The Philippine Islands are a great place to find a wealth of treasure and gold, barring in mind some stressful or life-threatening inconveniences, i.e., scammers, bandits, kidnappers, roving NPA'S, armed Muslim separatists & other related groups(MNLF, BIFF, breakaway MILF factions & Abu Sayyaf), predatory police, military, gov't officials & local political kingpins.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

You should leave The Philippines Ebry, come to Beautiful Mexico where you will find lovely brown or green senoriitas and lots of mines to find.

If you want Misterious places, you can investigate an area in the jungles where during the Revelution a company of well armed soldiers entered the jungle and none ever came out. --- A Schwarzenegrir affair??

Come to sunny beautiful Mexico, Land of brown, & green eyed lovely senoritas,easy living, and lost mines,

VIVA Mexico

 

[allen_idaho]

Hi again folks, I'm going to back up the conversation just a little bit.

Crow, you mentioned Franz von Rintelen and his involvement with Victorian Huerta. And you do make a good point. But neither the money nor even Huerta himself, made it back to Mexico.
You see, Huerta made a deal with Rintelen to support him financially in an attempted coup to reclaim Mexico. And Rintelen agreed to help him purchase ammunition and troops.
And so Huerta went to New Mexico, which means he most likely was looking to take that money and hire Pancho Villa's army.

Which makes perfect sense if you realize that before Huerta's arrest in New Mexico, Pancho Villa's army was dwindling. They couldn't get any more arms and ammunition from the United States who were now supporting the new president of Mexico. The number of troops in his command went down to around 200. But then, just months later, his numbers swelled up to 500 well armed men. Enough of a force that he started attacking US soil.

If you ask me, that is where your gold went. In fact, there is evidence that the Germans purchased $340,000 in ammunition from the Western Cartridge Company in 1915 for Pancho Villa at about the same time that Huerta was being arrested. And it is suspected that Pancho Villa was paid a substantial amount of money by the Germans to launch an attack on Columbus, New Mexico in 1916. The goal being to turn the US away from Europe by going to war in Mexico.

 

[Crow]

Hello Allen

Some interesting comments.

Maybe we are thinking too much that the 12 million was used for just Huerta?12 million is a still a lot money today back then at it would of been absolute fortune. I am not sure if he got paid the entire amount or only part?

I suspect the Germans was playing both of the opposing Mexican sides? As you rightly suggested the Germans did not care who was in power as long as they kept America out of the war in Europe. The fortunes of the Mexican civil war swinging from side to side must of been a nightmare for Franz von Rintele. Especially when neither side had particular control over Mexico.

Mexican President Venustiano Carranza considered the offer assigned a military commission to assess the feasibility of a Mexican takeover of their former territories.[SUP][/SUP]The general concluded that it would not be possible or even desirable for the following reasons: The US was far stronger than Mexico, in the ability to make war. No serious scenarios existed under which Mexico could win. Authors Francis A. March and Richard J. Beamish claim in their book "The History of WW1" that the Germans by 1916
that they were unable to give the necessary gold in order to stock a completely independent national bank. Which may or may not be true? The simple fact I suspect for that statement was that Carranza asked for an imposable amount of money from the Germans as a polite way of saying no thanks. 12 million was not enough to commit political suicide trying to make war with the united states with.

Its is still possible that some of the money/ Gold I suspect was shipped by Franz von Rintelen in which his family had business interested through banking with Folsch h and CO Hamburg who owned several of vessels interned at Santa Rosalia Baja. Indeed I tend to agree that some of gold at least got into the grubby little hands of Villa via Huerta. For me I still suspect there was the main bulk of the gold still unaccounted for. The Germans realized it was Not enough to bribe Carranza with and a total waste on Huerta who by then was finished even with Villa help the money would of only been pilfered.

The gold brought to Mexico from Hamberg via cape Horn on the Walkure which went into internment. From there I suspect the main bulk of the gold was smuggled from Santa Rosalia to Guyamas to the German consul via a small schooner Alexander Agasszi below later captured in may 1918 by the United States Navy with 5 Germans on board. This vessel had been for months engaged in gun running and smuggling in the sea of Cortez. Gold payment could of been smuggled via the ship from the sailing ship Walkure to a port in north of Mexico of Huetra deal with villa. But the Main Bulk went to Guyamas.



The Germans below was not ordinary German merchant seamen these guys were acting as operatives along the coast of Mexico.



But please realize this not the ship was lost...

I got name of a vessel from letters of German seaman that was interned at Santa Rosalia.

To be continued..

crow

 

[Deleted member 54237]

You should leave The Philippines Ebry, come to Beautiful Mexico where you will find lovely brown or green senoriitas and lots of mines to find.

If you want Misterious places, you can investigate an area in the jungles where during the Revelution a company of well armed soldiers entered the jungle and none ever came out. --- A Schwarzenegrir affair??

Come to sunny beautiful Mexico, Land of brown, & green eyed lovely senoritas,easy living, and lost mines,

VIVA Mexico

Ok Tramp, I'll take that as an invitation

 

[Crow]

The German Sailors name was William Fredrick Maahs. Who just an ordinary sailor caught up in WW1. He came there just after the declaration of war in the Ergon which was interned at Santa Roselia.






An interesting translated excerpt below from William Fredrick Maahs letter to his family in Germany by a family descendant in Germany

San Pedro August 7, 1916 Dear Parents , brother and sister
I know you have been waiting for a long time for my letter. Until now, it was not possible for me to write but today I will tell you all the details. On May 9 I left Santa Rosalia on the ship “Nelson” and arrived 8 days later in a small but very nice city, Loreto. Here we stayed one day and then went to a bay surrounded by staggered rocks and is well protected. Here we cleaned the outside of our ship.

This ship Nelson was an old Scottish Built ship taken off the LLoyds records in 1900 and yet still plying the waters of the Gulf of California visiting all the ports in Mexico . She was originally a sailing ship but converted into a steamship with screw propellers. Was this ship the alleged shipwreck? Here is the last entry of the ship in 1900 when she was still in British hands.



By 1918 there is no record of this vessel either she was wrecked or scrapped? Was it the old ship the Nelson that tried to flee Guyamas during height of a storm and was lost?

My conclusion Don Josemister that ya only got to hear part of the story that these alleged discoverers of the shipwreck pieced together.

A more deep look into past support or dispove these statements.

Interesting all the same.

Crow.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Damn. blackbirder, you are constantly surprising me. Double coffee with your Jon Bols Gin and quinine.


The basics were an older woman was telling them of her experience as a youg girl of knowing that a ship had gone down during a hurricane . It could well have been caught in the SE quadrant and forced close to shore where it foundered.

.It couldn't be a large ship since they were diving iin shallow water, and they specified it was a screw driven ship


Obviously any of those details as told to me could be misrepresented, delibertly- or, but he had nothing to gain, only upon recovery. As for money to help him with cigarets and candy, he only received about $ 50 us.

.

Don Jose de La Mancha