man trapped in west Arizona mine shaft since Monday

Joanne

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Broken carabiner according to what I was told. And the fellow involved here is no greenhorn.

Now that would be a difficult one to predict or prevent. That said, we always use a primary and backup anchor for safety. So if it was his anchor carabiner that broke, the incident could have been prevented. If the broken carabiner was attached to his descender, there wouldn't be a backup since almost no one runs a safety prussic when descending.

I use my Spot tracker to send my lat/lon to my friend just before we enter a mine, then send an OK message when we exit. That provides an exact location as well as a specific time that we entered. It doesn't make our activity any safer, but it does give search and rescue a head start if something goes wrong.

We each choose our risk-reward ratio. I'm glad he's going to make it!

Joanne
 

Terry Soloman

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Maybe he can also tell us how much his rescue cost Arizona taxpayers.. :dontknow:
 

Nitric

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Like I mentioned in another thread, I've been watching some of the explorers on Youtube. Some of these places they are crawling through are sketchy.

It doesn't have to be out in the middle of no where to get into trouble fast. I've been in a couple close ones when hunting with my dad. Slip and fall and who knows where you'll end up. Sometimes the worst happens when you least expect it. Sometimes, we get lucky and others not so lucky.:laughing7:

Glad someone came along and heard him!! I couldn't imagine that fear, with two broken legs, damn...The pain alone!!
 

SaltwaterServr

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Now that would be a difficult one to predict or prevent. That said, we always use a primary and backup anchor for safety. So if it was his anchor carabiner that broke, the incident could have been prevented. If the broken carabiner was attached to his descender, there wouldn't be a backup since almost no one runs a safety prussic when descending.

I use my Spot tracker to send my lat/lon to my friend just before we enter a mine, then send an OK message when we exit. That provides an exact location as well as a specific time that we entered. It doesn't make our activity any safer, but it does give search and rescue a head start if something goes wrong.

We each choose our risk-reward ratio. I'm glad he's going to make it!

Joanne

From what the special on the news said tonight, he lost control of the friction device. Makes me wonder if he was using a Petzl Stop, grabbed it a little too tight, then instinct made him death grip it. Wouldn't have enough time to let go before you hit the bottom. I've done it once, but let go after about 20'. Luckily the hole was 165 to the bottom. Could've been a dozen other things that happened too. If he wants us to know he'll tell my partners about it.

If you had two ascenders you could get out, but dangling your broken legs for 100' of ascent going a few inches at a time isn't a fun time. Especially since he thought help was coming any minute.

For the person thinking they want to go out to see what he was looking for, don't. It's his patented land.

That said, I'm going into two shafts on Sunday. Depth on one reaches 400' from the report we have from 1951. No idea if that's in stages or all one long drop. Won't make it to the bottom either way, rope is only 100m.
 

gold tramp

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Always a minimum of 3 men or woman, and one stays topside at all times a man is down the hole.
I'm not really a mine explorer, we have only dropped into a few shafts never deeper than 60 ft.
Working we found it much easier to use a bosun chair type setup.
I have a tripod for a headframe
Here's a pic of our equipment bags it takes 3 of us just to get our safety rig setup in place.

I don't recommend anybody do this without some training, or a partner it just makes good sense, be in good physical shape ascending is hard work. do this, live to mine another day,
Or just stay out stay alive.

This man's very lucky, there are many other scenarios in mine accidents you don't get a second chance.
prayers for your friend Mad.

Gt.......

Safety first !!!!!!!!!!!!!
IMG_20181019_133729.jpg
 

Ammoman

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I wish the news would just tell it like it happened. Obviously he did not fall 100 feet. If he fell 100 feet and survived, he would have had more than just a couple broke legs.
 

IMAUDIGGER

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Maybe he can also tell us how much his rescue cost Arizona taxpayers.. :dontknow:

Terry, not that I actually pay Arizona taxes, but I’m fine with my tax dollars helping people hurt in “accidents”. Be it a flipped car on the freeway driven by a tired driver, someone who wrecks because they have never seen snow, rescuing a miner who is trapped under a boulder in the river, maybe a climber who falls.

It’s a really beneficial service.

In the more remote places in my county, people pay life-flight insurance. This is so they don’t get stuck with a huge air flight bill and the service is able to continue to operate in that area. My grandpa had this insurance, but when he needed to be flown out to the hospital, a different company responded!!

I’d say they fly people out at least once a month in the summer. Be it kayaking, mortorcycle, bicycle, hiking and automobile accidents or just plain health issues.

Additionally many of the first responders and search and rescue are volunteers.
 
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Terry Soloman

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Terry, not that I actually pay Arizona taxes, but I’m fine with my tax dollars helping people hurt in “accidents”. Be it a flipped car on the freeway driven by a tired driver, someone who wrecks because they have never seen snow, rescuing a miner who is trapped under a boulder in the river, maybe a climber who falls.

It’s a really beneficial service.

In the more remote places in my county, people pay life-flight insurance. This is so they don’t get stuck with a huge air flight bill and the service is able to continue to operate in that area. My grandpa had this insurance, but when he needed to be flown out to the hospital, a different company responded!!

I’d say they fly people out at least once a month in the summer. Be it kayaking, mortorcycle, bicycle, hiking and automobile accidents or just plain health issues.

Additionally many of the first responders and search and rescue are volunteers.

Why are you defending this guy? He may be a veteran, a good Christian man, but he made a common, stupid mistake that almost cost him his life - and put OTHERS in danger. Yes, people do stupid stuff all the time - I'm guilty as well. This man may never walk without a cane again. He is more than likely done exploring mines forever. He can blame equipment malfunction but HE screwed the pooch by not having backup.:skullflag:
 

IMAUDIGGER

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Why are you defending this guy? He may be a veteran, a good Christian man, but he made a common, stupid mistake that almost cost him his life - and put OTHERS in danger. Yes, people do stupid stuff all the time - I'm guilty as well. This man may never walk without a cane again. He is more than likely done exploring mines forever. He can blame equipment malfunction but HE screwed the pooch by not having backup.:skullflag:

Because you are rushing to judgement without the facts and throwing out generalized comments based solely on info provided by the MEDIA!

Been there and had some experiences that not everybody has.
I’ve messed up a few times and almost paid the ultimate price. That’s called living. People don’t always make the perfect choices. Doesn’t make them a freaking idiot.
If that was the case every single miner hurt in a mining related accident is a moron, because after all...accidents are preventable (especially when second guessing after the fact). Trust me, I’m on a safety committee.
 
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Mad Machinist

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Why are you defending this guy? He may be a veteran, a good Christian man, but he made a common, stupid mistake that almost cost him his life - and put OTHERS in danger. Yes, people do stupid stuff all the time - I'm guilty as well. This man may never walk without a cane again. He is more than likely done exploring mines forever. He can blame equipment malfunction but HE screwed the pooch by not having backup.:skullflag:

So what your saying is your gonna stay the hell out of the Arizona desert then? I mean you wouldn't want to have a heart attack at your age and have to cost the taxpayers money to come get your happy arse now would you?
 

Rail Dawg

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We carry a PLB (Personal Locator Beacon).

Wonder if it would work down in the shaft if you can still see the sky.
 

IMAUDIGGER

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We carry a PLB (Personal Locator Beacon).

Wonder if it would work down in the shaft if you can still see the sky.

Still have to have someone fretting at home to trigger a search party. This sounded like a single man. At least that was my assumption.
Or is this satellite based 911?
 

Mad Machinist

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Still have to have someone fretting at home to trigger a search party. This sounded like a single man. At least that was my assumption.
Or is this satellite based 911?

Yea, he was out by himself which was a mistake, especially being on rope. He had a backup plan that his mining partner was supposed to come looking for him if he wasn't back by a certain time. The mining partner didn't make it out to look for him until the next day.

Don't care what I'm doing, even work, if I am the back up plan and you don't contact me by a set time, I'm on the road looking for you.
 

StreamlineGold

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Maybe he can also tell us how much his rescue cost Arizona taxpayers.. :dontknow:

C’mon man. Those guys are trained pros that are here for any of us..there are plenty of things that can happen to even the most experienced guys out there, including you and me. Who gives a crap how much tax dollars it cost..it saved a mans life!

I have talked to John quite a few times and he has been doing this for 30+ years..and knows this area very well and has mined it successfully. Did he make a mistake by going at it alone? Yes. At least he did have a backup plan in place. This was possibly an equipment failure (belay device). He is far from an idiot and many of us would drool with envy if you saw what kind of operation he has in place. Some of us may occasionally get ourselves in trouble out there and its important for us in the mining community to lift each other up..not just talk about how stupid others are. One day that may be yourself!

I pray for a speedy recovery for him!
 

boogeyman

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Maybe he can also tell us how much his rescue cost Arizona taxpayers.. :dontknow:
Nothing actually. A guy I know got medevac'd from a car wreck at 35th ave & Indian School to the Banner Hospital on Thunderbird that was over $3800 just for the chopper ride. He got the bill something like two days before or after he got released. And he stated "And the bills just kept a comin!"Somebody else told me FD bills you like $1500 - $2000 for a ride down Piestewa on the stokes with the tractor tire. Yeah, I know a lot of clumsy people. When I want to rag the friend in the car wreck I point to the scar on his leg and say, "Hell, I could've put that back together with a sewing kit! He's already reserved my services if he ever needs a stress test for his heart or BP.Gotta be rich to get hurt in Arizona!!
 

Terry Soloman

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So what your saying is your gonna stay the hell out of the Arizona desert then? I mean you wouldn't want to have a heart attack at your age and have to cost the taxpayers money to come get your happy arse now would you?

What "I" am saying is, first rule of wilderness hiking-exploring-camping, have a reliable partner and or communication device on you or with you while in the outback. You don't go looking for a firefight without a gun. Yes, it was an Accident, but so was the Titanic. Because he has been doing this for so many years, he became over confident and it cost him his future.

I get that a couple of you really dislike me, but this old coot did this to himself, and put other people in danger doing so. I bet I would like this guy, but I would rag on him for the rest of his life, in a "good natured" way of course.:occasion14:
 

IMAUDIGGER

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I get that a couple of you really dislike me:

I would personally not cast judgement on your character, based on a disagreement of opinions.
I’m hopeful the guy will heal up and after some difficult therapy, is back at it again.
 

Mad Machinist

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What "I" am saying is, first rule of wilderness hiking-exploring-camping, have a reliable partner and or communication device on you or with you while in the outback. You don't go looking for a firefight without a gun. Yes, it was an Accident, but so was the Titanic. Because he has been doing this for so many years, he became over confident and it cost him his future.

I get that a couple of you really dislike me, but this old coot did this to himself, and put other people in danger doing so. I bet I would like this guy, but I would rag on him for the rest of his life, in a "good natured" way of course.:occasion14:

Actually I do like you Terry. This was just an accident. Murphy took over and it happens to the best of us.
 

Capt Nemo

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Nothing actually. A guy I know got medevac'd from a car wreck at 35th ave & Indian School to the Banner Hospital on Thunderbird that was over $3800 just for the chopper ride.

Back in the early 90's, it cost the military $9800 to crank the engine on a Huey. So that really isn't bad!
 

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